Moral sinking at FLOPS

[SilverSurfer]

I would acknowledge the point that management got you into this mess and that growth with a disgrunteled pilot group makes things tough.
Still, I go back to the very root of this business when established. It was not supposed to be like Netjets. Maybe that was a mistake but the concept I remember is we are going to do the fractional program at reduced cost. This started with used aircraft of all kinds. There was no go buy a bunch of aircraft from the manufacturer, remarket them for a profit, and keep maintenance costs down.
The whole point of the original scheme was to offer fractional aircraft on the cheap compared to Netjets or Flexjet. When that concept started having some problems it was morphed into something else with Raytheon who could not figure out how to make any money at it either. When Raytheon sold off Hawker, they wanted no part of Flops. On we went to someone else came along to pick the bone and now back to Ricci.
Tell me where along the path there is industry leading anything about this company.
So far, this industry has only one company, Netjets. Everyone else struggles along for a variety of purposes, with none succeeding to any level. I understand you are unhappy that you are not paid what the industry "demands" but the 14 pilots that have been through my office lately are demanding one hell of a lot less.

The Options marketing concept was different form NJ focusing on a “value added” concept offering used aircraft of similar or better capability as the competition but at lower prices. If this concept was not workable or survivable is open to debate. However you contention that the relative value of Options over all service was less than the competition is incorrect. One of Options marketing tags always was that our pilots were as good or better then the competition’s. Additionally, Riccie repeatedly stated that Options pilots were the best in the industry and would maintain the position of highest paid in the industry. The history of the various poor managements that have made up the CGF brain trust have squandered opportunity again and again and compounded this with a poor grasp of this industry. We went for a company that understood and focused on how to cater to the rich and famous, to a corporate mentality bent on modeling Options after a Sh!tbag commuter. This management held the view that we, Options’s pilots, were somehow second rate and treated us that way. Hence the Union.

“Tell me where along the path there is industry leading anything about this company.”

The pilots at Options are industry leading professionals that are worth industry standard wages and benifits. I will put any pilot at Option’s up against any competition pilot any day. What is not industry leading is the management we have had and now the worn out aircraft we operate. I hope that Riccie coming back to Options will remedy both of these industry substandard aspects of our company.

“I understand you are unhappy that you are not paid what the industry "demands" but the 14 pilots that have been through my office lately are demanding one hell of a lot less.”

Unemployed pilots tend to accept far less to keep the family fed then pilots that have been at a company for as long as 12 years. Those 14 pilots will also be the first to leave for greener pastures as soon as they find them. Hopefully these 14 are quality professionals that will do a good job for the substandard wages you want to pay them.

 

[993_Pilot]

...Tell me where along the path there is industry leading anything about this company....

Well, the management sure thinks we are. Almost every press release starts of with:

"CLEVELAND, Ohio (Insert Date Here) Flight Options, a leading provider of safe, reliable and luxurious private air travel services, announced today that. . ."

Click HERE to See them.

 

[Publishers]

"If this concept was not workable or survivable is open to debate. However you contention that the relative value of Options over all service was less than the competition is incorrect."
The trouble is that the first line is the whole point of being in business. If the first part is not workable, survivable, AND profitable, the rest means absolutely nothing.
Marketing tags are exactly that, tags. Would anyone say come fly my company, we have young inexperienced pilots barely out of flight school.
Secondly, does it really matter how "leading professionals that are worth industry standard wages" if you have no cash flow to pay them.
We live in a time where GM today said they were running out of cash.
I guess my concern is that rather than be worried about your industry standard --never have even understood that concept -- I am wondering why you are not concerned that there is going to be a FLOPS at all.

 

[OldCrow]

Its like this

Like my bird dog...he can't tell what is in the food I feed him, however he can tell if he likes it or not (can compair). If he isn't feed, he will not fetch birds,or as well.
I, like my bird dog, don't know why FLOPs can't pay/feed me like the other jet/turbo prop fractionals. But like my specially trained dog, I won't fetch as well either.
Our Boss tells us that we are eating just as well as the other Pilots, and that we should just feel lucky that we even have a dog dish to eat it in. I, again, like my bird fetcher, can compair also.
Just a thought.

 

[jetwash]

Like my bird dog...he can't tell what is in the food I feed him, however he can tell if he likes it or not (can compair). If he isn't feed, he will not fetch birds,or as well.
I, like my bird dog, don't know why FLOPs can't pay/feed me like the other jet/turbo prop fractionals. But like my specially trained dog, I won't fetch as well either.
Our Boss tells us that we are eating just as well as the other Pilots, and that we should just feel lucky that we even have a dog dish to eat it in. I, again, like my bird fetcher, can compair also.
Just a thought.

My wife puts it another way.


You can sweet talk a woman and buy her dinner, but without a commitment (contract) she won't let you get in her pants.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Pay me industry standard

"If this concept was not workable or survivable is open to debate. However you contention that the relative value of Options over all service was less than the competition is incorrect."
The trouble is that the first line is the whole point of being in business. If the first part is not workable, survivable, AND profitable, the rest means absolutely nothing.
Marketing tags are exactly that, tags. Would anyone say come fly my company, we have young inexperienced pilots barely out of flight school.
Secondly, does it really matter how "leading professionals that are worth industry standard wages" if you have no cash flow to pay them.
We live in a time where GM today said they were running out of cash.
I guess my concern is that rather than be worried about your industry standard --never have even understood that concept -- I am wondering why you are not concerned that there is going to be a FLOPS at all.

If the business plan is flawed and can't compete can't survive, shut it down. Survival of the fittest.

If the business plan requires pilots to work for sweat shop wages, to subsidize the company with free labor, shut it down. A company that believes it's employees should accept low wages and just be happy to have a job, begins it's life with a failed business plan, shut it down.

Pay me industry standard or shut it down.

I for one will not accept any excuse for not signing a industry standard contract.

If Options management will not negotiate a industry standard contract, shut it down.

 

[993_Pilot]

A good majority of the pilot group worked here when Mr. Ricci was is charge the first time, and he always said that the would have the highest paid pilots in the industry. I know he remembers this because he mentioned it in his first address to the employees. He seems to be finding money to do other things like painting the entire fleet, so I am confident that he could find the money to pay his employees something similar to the competition. The big question is does he want to, or is he going to play us like "Gordon Gecko" would?

 

[skyismyoffice]

My wife puts it another way.


You can sweet talk a woman and buy her dinner, but without a commitment (contract) she won't let you get in her pants.

I am ready to get in her pants! (the company not your wife)

 

[FR8DOG777]

Welcome to the forum Jonny Ornstein

I would acknowledge the point that management got you into this mess and that growth with a disgrunteled pilot group makes things tough.
Still, I go back to the very root of this business when established. It was not supposed to be like Netjets. Maybe that was a mistake but the concept I remember is we are going to do the fractional program at reduced cost. This started with used aircraft of all kinds. There was no go buy a bunch of aircraft from the manufacturer, remarket them for a profit, and keep maintenance costs down.
The whole point of the original scheme was to offer fractional aircraft on the cheap compared to Netjets or Flexjet. When that concept started having some problems it was morphed into something else with Raytheon who could not figure out how to make any money at it either. When Raytheon sold off Hawker, they wanted no part of Flops. On we went to someone else came along to pick the bone and now back to Ricci.
Tell me where along the path there is industry leading anything about this company.
So far, this industry has only one company, Netjets. Everyone else struggles along for a variety of purposes, with none succeeding to any level. I understand you are unhappy that you are not paid what the industry "demands" but the 14 pilots that have been through my office lately are demanding one hell of a lot less.

I guess you should go ahead and let those fourteen flight instructors fly your cessna 152's for free to build time. It always astounds me how people like you can justify not paying pilots a fair wage. I am sure if we sign a substandard five year contract and the economy gets back on track, they sell the sh!t out of the phenom 300 the company will out of the goodness of their hearts go ahead and share the wealth. The truth of the matter is we have financed one bad management decision after another. The weekly message states we are still a fractional provider, wish to continue selling fractional shares, however not pay our hard working pilots a fractional salary. Pay up or close the doors. Management has had ample time to save up and figure out how they can finance the wages. Like another poster said maybe take a little out of the refurb fund, the repaint fund, or the over paid ceo fund. Either way come up with the money or close the doors.

 

[brokeflyer]

Trying to "do it" cheaper than NJ is why they fail. These people who buy into this want superior service with safety. The truly belive that you get what you pay for. I've spoke to many owners in the past that were all in favor of a price increase to afford to pay us. THEY want us paid well, just like I want my heart surgeon to be paid well.