Moral sinking at FLOPS

[993_Pilot]

Sooo... A union would have helped prevent the problem of those you've listed?
Witness GM, Ford, Chrysler, seems the union was nothing but trouble when it came to sustaining the company (along with buliding garbage products, but thats beside the point..).
It just seems that you bringing up these companies (Worldcom, Enron, etc.) means that a union would have prevented these "evil" managers from doing "evil".
Doubt-it.

I never said that a union would have prevented this... Honestly, where to you get these things? I am simply saying that most management is no less selfish than most unions. Further, I am not willing to put my fate in managements hand unless they would be willing to tie their fate to mine. Since that isn't going to happen, and we don't have golden parachutes, we're looking out for ourselves, and have put our trust in the union. Regardless of what you believe, the pilots are not out to ruin the company, they simply want to be treated with respect, and paid like the professionals that we are... of course B19's answer is for us to quit and change companies. I guess he is saying that he doesn't think Flops will never be a company worth working for long term! ... Nice message to be sending the employees.

 

[brokeflyer]

tihs thread has become pointless.....we want our union and our safety.......b19 and skanza are the exact opposite...fine....time for this thread to die.

we can keep this debate going forever....lets find something else to talk about.

 

[993_Pilot]

tihs thread has become pointless.....we want our union and our safety.......b19 and skanza are the exact opposite...fine....time for this thread to die.

we can keep this debate going forever....lets find something else to talk about.

Sounds good to me. Come up with a new topic and start a new thread. Of course, you know that regardless of the topic, B19 and Skanza will try to turn it in to "why unions are evil", but at least we won't have to wade through 200 posts.

 

[fischman]

And this is where it's interesting fischman, because my views are exactly that of management, the views of which are rarely seen in print.

The problem is, (and you should take ME just as seriously) that its management who signs the checks because they and they alone are only responsible for the existance of the company which includes the welfare of all the pilots, non pilot employees and owners. ...and shareholders... ($$$). (Did I mention something about a carrot instead of a whip?)

It's the pilots that need to understand that managment is out for the good of the entire company, while the union is only out for the welfare of their own group. Which if treated with respect and dignity would have more of a sense of pride in their company. They would go that extra mile as we have seen at NJA to see it succeed. Instead, as you have witnessed at FLOPS, they get the job done.

When you open your your eyes and understand "It's not only about the pilots", you begin to understand why negotiations and union interventions are so brutal.

But what do I know.. I only sign the checks.

It only takes a pen to write checks. It takes passion to make a comapny thrive. With the current management style at FLOPS I am concerned for them.

Look in the mirror. This is what you'll see...

http://images1.comstock.com/Imagewarehouse/TS/SITECS/NLWMCompingVersions/B0010/B0010721/B0010721.jpg

 

[brokeflyer]

yawn





yawn






yawn

 

[B19 Flyer]

and shareholders... ($$$). (Did I mention something about a carrot instead of a whip?)

Coming from somebody that supports the primary union tool of "strike", I can't take your statement seriously.


Which if treated with respect and dignity would have more of a sense of pride in their company. They would go that extra mile as we have seen at NJA to see it succeed. Instead, as you have witnessed at FLOPS, they get the job done.

You still don't get it.. bringing a union onto the property is the same as kicking the company and all the other employees in the shins and expecting them not to be upset.

..................

 

[993_Pilot]

You still don't get it.. bringing a union onto the property is the same as kicking the company and all the other employees in the shins and expecting them not to be upset.

It doesn't have to be. It all depends on if the company wants to work with us or against us, and we all know what your choice is. Besides, the only reason that there is a union, is because the pilots have been "kicked in the shins" for so long!

 

[B19 Flyer]

It doesn't have to be. It all depends on if the company wants to work with us or against us, and we all know what your choice is. Besides, the only reason that there is a union, is because the pilots have been "kicked in the shins" for so long!

No, you are wrong. If you are an employee that feels like you are being kicked in the shins by the employer, you've chosen the wrong job. Not all employees feel that way and it is wrong for a union to come in and change the way of life of those that are happy, which is exactly what a union does.

If, on the other hand you work for a company and somebody else comes in and kicks you in the shins, then you have a right to fight that entity (union) and eject it from the property.

The union is coming in from the outside and forcing its will on those that don't want it.

 

[dime line]

No, you are wrong. If you are an employee that feels like you are being kicked in the shins by the employer, you've chosen the wrong job. Not all employees feel that way and it is wrong for a union to come in and change the way of life of those that are happy, which is exactly what a union does.

If, on the other hand you work for a company and somebody else comes in and kicks you in the shins, then you have a right to fight that entity (union) and eject it from the property

.

The union is coming in from the outside and forcing its will on those that don't want it.

You mean YOU. We are fighting YOU. YOU are working under a contract, and when we have a contract, YOU will be gone. Good riddence. And then WE can get on to the business of making FLOPS (All of us, not YOU) money.

 

[EX_CV580FR8Dawg]

You mean YOU. We are fighting YOU. YOU are working under a contract, and when we have a contract, YOU will be gone. Good riddence. And then WE can get on to the business of making FLOPS (All of us, not YOU) money.

Nicely said Dime..... isn't that what we are doing with the union...fighting what the former regime brought when they came in after KR left the first time? Now WE are just insuring it WON'T HAPPEN AGAIN!

p.s. just who are these "other" "happy" employees as you put it B19? Have MX talked about unionizing at all on property?

 

[brokeflyer]

yawn


yawn


yawn

 

[netjetwife]

Good posts, gentlemen! (That excludes those flinging FUD, of course). I admire you all for standing up for what's right, fighting for your families and the industry. It doesn't matter how much FUD is flung on this board, when professional pilots are hard pressed just to cover the basics you know the situation is wrong. When your peers are paid significantly more for essentially the same job that means your skills and labor are being exploited by management. Facing disrespectful managers together is not only your American right, it is also the only way the hard-working, under-paid Options pilots are going to be able to affect real change. Hang in there!
NJW

 

[993_Pilot]

... If you are an employee that feels like you are being kicked in the shins by the employer, you've chosen the wrong job...

It wasn't that way at the beginning... probably before you were here... I wonder if that is a coincidence???

...If, on the other hand you work for a company and somebody else comes in and kicks you in the shins, then you have a right to fight that entity (union) and eject it from the property...

If there are pilots that don't want to work within a union, then they are now at the wrong company. To take a page from your book, it is they who should go look for another job and start building seniority somewhere else. This union was legally voted in, by the majority of pilots, so why should the majority leave? FYI, you don't have the right to eject us from the property, otherwise MS would have done so long ago. Go study your labor laws.

The union is coming in from the outside and forcing its will on those that don't want it.

Wrong, the union movement was started from the inside! If there are those that don't want it, they are free to leave for another company. In fact, why don't you?

 

[B19 Flyer]

Good posts, gentlemen! (That excludes those flinging FUD, of course). I admire you all for standing up for what's right, fighting for your families and the industry. It doesn't matter how much FUD is flung on this board, when professional pilots are hard pressed just to cover the basics you know the situation is wrong. When your peers are paid significantly more for essentially the same job that means your skills and labor are being exploited by management. Facing disrespectful managers together is not only your American right, it is also the only way the hard-working, under-paid Options pilots are going to be able to affect real change. Hang in there!
NJW

You're still an idiot. Those pilots at FLOPS are being furloughed and you want them to have a CBA that matches the deepest pockets in the industry.

The only thing that is going to save the rest of their jobs in the short term is the lack of a CBA.

When this begins at NJ, which is bound to happen, will your husband and the inhouse union work quickly to lower their industry leading pay to save jobs or will they stand by their pay and watch the bottom of the list be furloughed like always?

Now is the time where unions fail their membership. When times are tough, lets see how many jobs the unions will save vs how many senior pilots maintain their high level of pay.

 

[RNObased]

You're still an idiot. Those pilots at FLOPS are being furloughed and you want them to have a CBA that matches the deepest pockets in the industry.

The only thing that is going to save the rest of their jobs in the short term is the lack of a CBA.

When this begins at NJ, which is bound to happen, will your husband and the inhouse union work quickly to lower their industry leading pay to save jobs or will they stand by their pay and watch the bottom of the list be furloughed like always?

Now is the time where unions fail their membership. When times are tough, lets see how many jobs the unions will save vs how many senior pilots maintain their high level of pay.

You are calling NJW a idiot??? Wow big man, tough talk. NJA is still making money and I don't see how you can call for furloughs. Oh, I forgot you are branching out with your speading of FUD. Why don't you just stick to talking about, what you think you know something about smart guy, stick to FLOPS, idiot!!!!!