Moral sinking at FLOPS

[gunfyter]

And they were always good. They just didn't want to pay.

 

[B19 Flyer]

having a union has nothing to do with furloughs. Hopefuly we won't. We have a unique business plan, this aint the first storm we had to sit through.

You are right, having a union has nothing to do with the concept of furloughs.

However, if furloughs were to occur, a union contract will force a higher number of furloughs to occur because the payroll bucket will be much larger and the wealth can't be spread out. Only once have I seen a union proactively take a contract concession to save jobs, it is the exception rather than the norm. The union will almost always sacrifice the bottom third of the seniority list to save the high salaries of the remaining pilots.

 

[fischman]

That's called seniority.

 

[brokeflyer]

You are right, having a union has nothing to do with the concept of furloughs.

However, if furloughs were to occur, a union contract will force a higher number of furloughs to occur because the payroll bucket will be much larger and the wealth can't be spread out. Only once have I seen a union proactively take a contract concession to save jobs, it is the exception rather than the norm. The union will almost always sacrifice the bottom third of the seniority list to save the high salaries of the remaining pilots.

however, management still retains their salary, which is always higher than all the pilots salary combined. So the union doesn't sacrafice anyone. Management is the ones that sacrafice the bottom 3rd of the senioity list because it will make the bottom line look better.

 

[B19 Flyer]

You get what you pay for.

however, management still retains their salary, which is always higher than all the pilots salary combined. So the union doesn't sacrafice anyone. Management is the ones that sacrafice the bottom 3rd of the senioity list because it will make the bottom line look better.

Pilots are responsible for the flight they are on.

CEOs are responsible for all the pilots and employees of the company, and the owners, and the stockholders, and the rest of the non-pilot employees. Do the math.

Pilots are always touting that you get what you pay for in a pilot. CEOs are no different. You want an inexpensive CEO? You'll get what you asked for.

 

[B19 Flyer]

That's called seniority.

Yep, keep the weak pilots because order of hire is more important than flying talent.

One of my great disgusts of dealing with unions is how a greivance committee will fight the firing of a pilot when the union members themselves think he's an idiot. Seen it more than once. Keep the weak, keep down the talented. It's the union way.

 

[brokeflyer]

like iv'e said....that's why you need unions. Pilots need to be paid well. Management continues to screw everyone else.

undisputed......

game over, thread needs locked now.

 

[Freedom]

Now I know B19 is Bob19....

Yep, keep the weak pilots because order of hire is more important than flying talent.

One of my great disgusts of dealing with unions is how a greivance committee will fight the firing of a pilot when the union members themselves think he's an idiot. Seen it more than once. Keep the weak, keep down the talented. It's the union way.

During the Campaign for Union Representation, Bob19 stated repeatedly how he was an Air Force Top Gun, how he was only use to associating with the best, how we needed to thin the herd to retain only the best.

Then the question was put to him as to what would happen if say we got rid of the bottom 10% of the Pilot talent pool (with Bob19 being the judge). What would happen next year? Wouldn't there be a new bottom 10%? In 5 years using this methodology, wouldn't we be half way (50%) thru the current talent pool presently on the property?

Bob19 had no answer for this question.

Bottom Line: For the most part, a Pilot is a Pilot. If we can pass our minimum required standards, that should be enough. Each of us have our strengths and weaknesses. We are all individual people.

But what Bob19 wants the ability to do, is to select who he keeps on the property and who he kicks off, without the review of an independent body. This smells of a God complex; that he thinks because he was the best of the best, that he should be the one to decide who stays and who goes.

Well B19, its not the top 5% that makes the operation operate. It is the average Pilot just going about his daily duties. Something most of us would have been perfectly happy doing if we hadn't been abused by YOU and Scheeringa.

As a result of that abuse, "You got what you asked for...." A Union. And we ain't going away.

Once we get our Contract, it will be YOU that is out the door. Perhaps you realize this; that could explain why you are fighting so hard to splinter this Pilot group, in an attempt to prevent us from obtaining a Contract.

Once again, you under estimate the resolve of this Pilot Group.

We will obtain a Fair Contract or the Doors will be closed.

Freedom is Not Free

 

[dime line]

Yep, keep the weak pilots because order of hire is more important than flying talent.

One of my great disgusts of dealing with unions is how a greivance committee will fight the firing of a pilot when the union members themselves think he's an idiot. Seen it more than once. Keep the weak, keep down the talented. It's the union way.

OH YA MEAN LIKE MANAGEMENT DID WITH SPECIAL ED!

WHAT AN IDIOT

 

[jppt2000]

Yep, keep the weak pilots because order of hire is more important than flying talent.

One of my great disgusts of dealing with unions is how a greivance committee will fight the firing of a pilot when the union members themselves think he's an idiot. Seen it more than once. Keep the weak, keep down the talented. It's the union way.

Its incomprehensible to me, that someone would go to work with the intention of screwing up or causing problems.
Everyone has a bad day every now and then.
The thought of having a sanctimonious weirdo like Bob, sitting in judgement of my actions sickens me.
IMHO unions provide a fair system of due process and provides the collective strength of the entire membership when one of us has a bad day.

 

[CA1900]

But what Bob19 wants the ability to do, is to select who he keeps on the property and who he kicks off, without the review of an independent body. This smells of a God complex...

Video of the meeting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqeC3BPYTmE


:laugh:

 

[brokeflyer]

Id say that says it all.....lol

 

[Freedom]

Roger that....

Video of the meeting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqeC3BPYTmE


:laugh:

Case closed. Bob19 thinks he is God.


Freedom is Not Free

 

[fischman]

Well he is wrong. Again.....


I am God.

 

[B19 Flyer]

First come first served...

Its incomprehensible to me, that someone would go to work with the intention of screwing up or causing problems.
Everyone has a bad day every now and then.
The thought of having a sanctimonious weirdo like Bob, sitting in judgement of my actions sickens me.
IMHO unions provide a fair system of due process and provides the collective strength of the entire membership when one of us has a bad day.

What you are saying is the hiring process should be exactly like the seniority process.

Every company should simply hire, in the order they walk in off the street, any pilot that proves they can fly an airplane regardless of prior qualifications.

Yep.. first come first served. That's fair, right? If they are going to furlough pilots that are hired last regardless of skill, then they should be hired the same way. It's only fair.

It didn't work out so well here...

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/blue_angels_hold_first_ever_open

 

[Freedom]

Still don't have an answer yet for this Bob19.....

During the Campaign for Union Representation, Bob19 stated repeatedly how he was an Air Force Top Gun, how he was only use to associating with the best, how we needed to thin the herd to retain only the best.

Then the question was put to him as to what would happen if say we got rid of the bottom 10% of the Pilot talent pool (with Bob19 being the judge). What would happen next year? Wouldn't there be a new bottom 10%? In 5 years using this methodology, wouldn't we be half way (50%) thru the current talent pool presently on the property?

Bob19 had no answer for this question.

Bottom Line: For the most part, a Pilot is a Pilot. If we can pass our minimum required standards, that should be enough. Each of us have our strengths and weaknesses. We are all individual people.

But what Bob19 wants the ability to do, is to select who he keeps on the property and who he kicks off, without the review of an independent body. This smells of a God complex; that he thinks because he was the best of the best, that he should be the one to decide who stays and who goes.

Well B19, its not the top 5% that makes the operation operate. It is the average Pilot just going about his daily duties. Something most of us would have been perfectly happy doing if we hadn't been abused by YOU and Scheeringa.

As a result of that abuse, "You got what you asked for...." A Union. And we ain't going away.

Once we get our Contract, it will be YOU that is out the door. Perhaps you realize this; that could explain why you are fighting so hard to splinter this Pilot group, in an attempt to prevent us from obtaining a Contract.

Once again, you under estimate the resolve of this Pilot Group.

We will obtain a Fair Contract or the Doors will be closed.

Freedom is Not Free

Seems like you want to run your Pilot force just like the Sales Force of a Car Dealer. If I just filter out the bottom each and every year, I'll keep the Fear of God (Bob19) in these employees, and get them to work their tails off constantly running scared.

That type of environment may work for you as the one pulling the strings Bob19, but I don't think you'll find many Professional Pilots who wish to work in that type of environment.

Once again folks, we see how Bob19 picks and chooses what he will respond to. When faced with an argument he cannot win, he hides in the corner like a scared little boy, waiting for an easier target.

I am so happy I no longer work under this type of disfunctional ............

Freedom is Not Free

 

[B19 Flyer]

Seems like you want to run your Pilot force just like the Sales Force of a Car Dealer. If I just filter out the bottom each and every year, I'll keep the Fear of God (Bob19) in these employees, and get them to work their tails off constantly running scared.

That type of environment may work for you as the one pulling the strings Bob19, but I don't think you'll find many Professional Pilots who wish to work in that type of environment.

Once again folks, we see how Bob19 picks and chooses what he will respond to. When faced with an argument he cannot win, he hides in the corner like a scared little boy, waiting for an easier target.

I am so happy I no longer work under this type of disfunctional ............

Freedom is Not Free

I'm not Bob so I never made those statements. I stopped bothering to respond to this mistaken identity issue years ago. So, there isn't anything to respond to because.. it's not me.

Besides, it looks to me like 1108 has met it's match anyway, three years and counting, they didn't get it done and every single union member is suffering the consequences of their failure. Now, they have no chance at a good contract.

 

[Semore Butts]

So, what your telling me is B-19


What you are saying is the hiring process should be exactly like the seniority process.

Every company should simply hire, in the order they walk in off the street, any pilot that proves they can fly an airplane regardless of prior qualifications.

Yep.. first come first served. That's fair, right? If they are going to furlough pilots that are hired last regardless of skill, then they should be hired the same way. It's only fair.

Lets say;You've been where you are for 5 years. (I think that is what you said?)

I hire in there tomorrow into the same job you have, But!

I'm a "Double Top Gun" (I heard your just a 1 Top Gun).

So, they decide to let some people go. So you are saying they should get rid of you (having been there for 5 years) as opposed to me because have a "Double Top Gun"? (You only have 1?)

Just checking!

 

[B19 Flyer]

Best for the company, not the union.

Yep.. first come first served. That's fair, right? If they are going to furlough pilots that are hired last regardless of skill, then they should be hired the same way. It's only fair.

Lets say;You've been where you are for 5 years. (I think that is what you said?)

I hire in there tomorrow into the same job you have, But!

I'm a "Double Top Gun" (I heard your just a 1 Top Gun).

So, they decide to let some people go. So you are saying they should get rid of you (having been there for 5 years) as opposed to me because have a "Double Top Gun"? (You only have 1?)

Just checking!

Once again, I'm not "Bob", but I'll respond.


What a pilot does previous or outside the company has no bearing on how he flies inside the company.

I've seen fighter pilots struggle with CRM concepts and a former 160th MH47 driver fail a check ride because he was non-standard, not because he didn't have stick and rudder skills.

I've personally seen pilots survive the grievance process with fellow pilots that didn't want to fly with them defending them for the sake of the union. A weak pilot is one that doesn't work within the framework of how an individual company operates. How many former legacy pilots have you worked with that had no customer service skills or didn't want to throw a bag? Captain attitudes where there isn't an FO in the world good enough to fly a leg, that always creates a great atmosphere.

No.. weak pilots have little to do with resumes. It has everything to do with attitude and being able to adjust to the individual mission. The inability to weed those out and keep the best for what is good for the company is not what the union cares about. This is the same group that would fire a mechanic or flight follower in a heartbeat if they didn't meet their standards.

With a union it's all about the standard they set, and that is rarely what is good for the company. Instead, it's based on what is best for their wallet.

 

[Freedom]

OK Bob...

I'm not Bob so I never made those statements. I stopped bothering to respond to this mistaken identity issue years ago. So, there isn't anything to respond to because.. it's not me.

Besides, it looks to me like 1108 has met it's match anyway, three years and counting, they didn't get it done and every single union member is suffering the consequences of their failure. Now, they have no chance at a good contract.

Then let me at least thank you for responding (because we know you don't respond because its not you).

Have a Nice Day in that distorted world you live in within your own mind.


Freedom is Not Free