IBT 1108 Attempts to take NJASAP funds

[Options_SLAVE]

First of all, my understanding is that the NJASAP never had control of Ibt1108 money. The officers who moved to the NJASAP from the IBT1108 had to resign their position. Those NETJETS pilots who held down the fort the last few months were still members of the IBT1108.

And they were going to be NJASAP officers and everyone knew it.

Next, those members of the IBT1108 who left as the agreement was executed did nothing with the money other than what was agreed upon, even though they had full control of the 1108 for months. Those 1108 NetJets officers did nothing other than what was stated in the transition document when they left.

And the GP made sure of it.

No need to speculate what the NJASAP would do with IBT money, it never happened. No need to speculate what the outgoing Netjets 1108 officers did either, it is public record.

You're right, it never did happen, because control of the money was maintained with the Local. However, I can truly speculate myself with what NJASAP would have done with the money. In fact I did speculate.

I can speculate what the National IBT and incoming 2 members wanted to do with the money, but it serves no point.

Well, wait a minute. Go ahead and speculate. Since the money is still there and in their control.

The facts are such: The IBT National, a bookkeeper who worked for the 1108, and 2 1108 officers-elect did manufacture a bogus trusteeship documents, and then attempted to drain some IBT1108 bank accounts.

That is NOT a fact. Signature cards were changed and in FACT what happened was the GP had removed 2 members of the eBoard who had access to FOUR bank accounts that belong to the Local 1108 who would be leaving the eBoard to 2 members who would NOT be leaving. NO withdrawals or attempted withdrawals were made. It was discovered however that there were over $170,000 in floating checks outstanding from very loose pockets by the e-board during the months of the transition, and around a half a million dollars in suspect spending by the outgoing eBoard members that would become the liability (inherited) by the "new" leadership.

They represented themselves as the current president and tresurer of the 1108, while they were only the president and tresurer-elect.

Again, false. They have documentation signed by the GP that gave them the authority to make the changes at the banks. If you can prove otherwise, don't state it under a false name here, take them to court on it. As Phoenix stated, bank fraud is a federal offense and the IBT nor the FO MEC are worried about how they did this transfer of authority on the accounts.

Were their motives to embezzle the money for themselves? Were they trying to destroy the IBT/NJASAP transition agreement? Were they only seizing the money in case the NJ 1108 members tried to take more than agreed upon when they left?

I don't know, that's speculation, and as I said above it doesn't really matter what I think they would have done had the IBT and the Flops senior union management managed to steal the money. We took precautions to prevent the the kind of actions that were attempted, and they worked.

Actually it was the IBT who took the precautions, and THEY worked. The Local's money stayed in the Local's hands, and when the NJASAP pilots found out about it, this thread started on the message board and the Flight Options message board disappeared.

This has damaged any future working relationship between the two unions

Why? Because the GP took the steps to ensure that the IBT Local 1108's monies stayed in the Local's hands? Well, boo hoo. Isn't life tough.

, but you are allowed to do what you want now that we are no longer part of your local. If you want to commend these people for the fraud they attempted to commit, so be it.

No fraud was attempted on the FO side of the fence. You fail to prove otherwise and are challenged to provide such proof in a court of law. They did what they were directed to by the GP himself and were legally and morally obligated to do regarding securing the funds of the Local. Not a dime was transferred, not a dime was made unavailable to anyone, merely who signed the checks for any Local monies. It is however debatable and the jury is still out, pun intended, on if there was in fact fraud that took place on the NJASAP leadership's part regarding spending Local 1108 assets for their organization purposes.

I hope your pilot group can survive this situation, and I hope at some point in the future both unions can work together toward our common goals. It will take awhile for our trust level to be restored in your leadership at the 1108.

Ditto. All because Olson was pissed he was out-maneuvered at the banks and had to air it out here on the public message board.

Good luck on the negotiation and getting you 70 hostages freed.

Thank you.

 

[TORCH67]

Out of everyone involved the Flight Options pilots should be the ones asking questions and demanding full disclosure from their Eboard! It is they that have been betrayed more than the NJ pilots. Time will tell if you can step up and fight the playground bully without the teacher standing close by.

Pheonix, "you have some explaining to do"!

 

[CastofThousands]

All because Olson was pissed he was out-maneuvered at the banks and had to air it out here on the public message board.

Ah, "Olsen" has been out of office for over 3 months and was in Europe while the deal closed. And, NJASAP exited with everthing in the agreement because they played it perfectly while the 1108 NetJets Executive Board honored the agreement.

How do these simple facts confuse people?

 

[TORCH67]

Slave you seem to have all the answers except one?

Is 1108 in trusteeship or not?

You seem to be in contact with the people in the know?

 

[Options_SLAVE]

The E-board in place when this "transaction" took place should have been in the loop and in control. If there were suspicion of the E-board to warrant an emergency trusteeship, answer this simple question:

Why was no paperwork for this trusteeship filed?

Without trusteeship, Bill Moore, our ex-bookkeeper, and your two MEC members did not have the authority to remove that check from the premises. By doing so under the guise of trusteeship without proper paperwork to back it up, they did so under false pretenses, and presented falsified documents to the banks to that end.

Trusteeship paperwork did exist. Signed by the GP. You are referring to the paperwork being submitted to the DOL. I can't speak to that. You think you have an argument there, so take it to court. Otherwise, it's just smack. The GP did what he thought was necessary to secure the Local's interests. Nothing was stolen, no monies were not made available.

That's incorrect. By removing the check from the 1108 offices, control of those funds was taken from the E-board in power at that time. In doing this, those that participated broke the law.

Nice try - the control of all funds were always in control of the eBoard. The only thing that changed was who has the authorization of signing the checks and was done by the authority of the GP. Your argument is he didn't have the authority. He and his lawyers disagree. They acted. Get over it. You didn't lose a dime and the bank accounts were secured. I see nothing out of place, here.

Boy, isn't it funny how that just CHAPS your hides that you lost access to those accounts. WHAT, prey tell, was the outgoing eBoard members up to, that makes them so upset over who signs the checks? What check didn't get signed that would have been had the authorizations not been changed, hmmm? What "business" was interrupted by changing who on the eBoard signs the checks and has access to the accounts? You act like securing over 1 MILLION dollars is not worth protecting and being pro-active on account security.

 

[glasspilot]

This has got to be the fastest thread in the history of message boards.

In less than a day and a half there are 19 pages and 274 posts! Anyone remember a faster growing, more posted topic?

 

[glasspilot]

Sorry, 277 posts. (3 went up as I was writting!)

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Ah, "Olsen" has been out of office for over 3 months and was in Europe while the deal closed. And, NJASAP exited with everthing in the agreement because they played it perfectly while the 1108 NetJets Executive Board honored the agreement.

How do these simple facts confuse people?

I'm not confused - I see EXACTLY what was planned (way before "Olsen" was out of the office). Nice timing on being in Europe!

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Out of everyone involved the Flight Options pilots should be the ones asking questions and demanding full disclosure from their Eboard!

Hmm. Considering "our" e-board is 1 day old, any disclosures would need to be done by the outgoing eBoard, don't ya think?

It is they that have been betrayed more than the NJ pilots.

Explain - what did your eBoard do that we don't know about?

Time will tell if you can step up and fight the playground bully without the teacher standing close by.

You got that right, buddy.

 

[NJAPLT]

How many NJ pilots are even more glad to get out of the IBT madhouse than they were a week ago?

I'll start.

1.

P.S. Good luck getting a fair contract guys, I meet 4 Flops Pilots last tour, 3 were very antiunion and one was prounion (and he figures if the RIF would have been done fair, he should have been let go because he is near the bottom of the seniority list.) I hope that I just got a bad sampling of your pilots' opinions last week...

 

[IDEtoNJA]

And they were going to be NJASAP officers and everyone knew it.



And the GP made sure of it.



You're right, it never did happen, because control of the money was maintained with the Local. However, I can truly speculate myself with what NJASAP would have done with the money. In fact I did speculate.



Well, wait a minute. Go ahead and speculate. Since the money is still there and in their control.



That is NOT a fact. Signature cards were changed and in FACT what happened was the GP had removed 2 members of the eBoard who had access to FOUR bank accounts that belong to the Local 1108 who would be leaving the eBoard to 2 members who would NOT be leaving. NO withdrawals or attempted withdrawals were made. It was discovered however that there were over $170,000 in floating checks outstanding from very loose pockets by the e-board during the months of the transition, and around a half a million dollars in suspect spending by the outgoing eBoard members that would become the liability (inherited) by the "new" leadership.




Again, false. They have documentation signed by the GP that gave them the authority to make the changes at the banks. If you can prove otherwise, don't state it under a false name here, take them to court on it. As Phoenix stated, bank fraud is a federal offense and the IBT nor the FO MEC are worried about how they did this transfer of authority on the accounts.




Actually it was the IBT who took the precautions, and THEY worked. The Local's money stayed in the Local's hands, and when the NJASAP pilots found out about it, this thread started on the message board and the Flight Options message board disappeared.



Why? Because the GP took the steps to ensure that the IBT Local 1108's monies stayed in the Local's hands? Well, boo hoo. Isn't life tough.



No fraud was attempted on the FO side of the fence. You fail to prove otherwise and are challenged to provide such proof in a court of law. They did what they were directed to by the GP himself and were legally and morally obligated to do regarding securing the funds of the Local. Not a dime was transferred, not a dime was made unavailable to anyone, merely who signed the checks for any Local monies. It is however debatable and the jury is still out, pun intended, on if there was in fact fraud that took place on the NJASAP leadership's part regarding spending Local 1108 assets for their organization purposes.



Ditto. All because Olson was pissed he was out-maneuvered at the banks and had to air it out here on the public message board.




Thank you.

Option_SLAVE,

Without officially invoking emergency trusteeship, what rights does the "trustee" have to ensure a change in control of bank accounts? Will you agree that presenting paperwork for an emergency trusteeship without officially invoking it is highly irregular?

In case the emergency trusteeship was invoked, is Local 1108 still under the auspices of the "trustee?" Otherwise, it would seem that the emergency trusteeship was the shortest in the history of organized labor. Would you agree that such a scenario is highly irregular?

You claim that the Local 1108 eboard had control over the local's finances throughout. However, at the same time a "trustee" appointed by a politician in DC unilaterally gave control to at least one person that was not a current member of the ebaord. What legal standing did the "trustee" use in order to enact such change?

Does the constitution, by-laws, and DOL rules and regulations specify who shall have control over the finances of each local? Was the change in control done in accordance with these rules and regulations in an orderly and open manner?

Thanks,
IDEtoNJA

 

[CastofThousands]

I'm not confused - I see EXACTLY what was planned (way before "Olsen" was out of the office). Nice timing on being in Europe!

As stated above, this was clear before 1108 received its charter. It was the default for many. That's been known from the get go - Hence 98% of the NetJets pilots vote to leave the Teamsters.

Europe, or not...

 

[CA1900]

Trusteeship paperwork did exist. Signed by the GP.

The GP did so claiming authority that the he does not have. That's the part you keep missing: the IBT, under the RLA and MLRDA does not have the authority to change control of those accounts.

The GP did what he thought was necessary to secure the Local's interests.

That "he thought it was necessary" doesn't make it legal or ethical.

Nothing was stolen...

The check from NetJets was. If it was a legal transaction, why was it done in a dark office with someone the bookkeper let in the back door?

Nice try - the control of all funds were always in control of the eBoard. The only thing that changed was who has the authorization of signing the checks and was done by the authority of the GP.

Once again: The GP does NOT have that authority, any more than you do. Why is that so hard for you to grasp? Just because they're "the national" doesn't grant them unlimited power over your local. If you guys are going to survive under the Teamsters, you need to learn that lesson sooner rather than later.

Boy, isn't it funny how that just CHAPS your hides. WHAT, prey tell, was the outgoing eBoard members up to, that makes them so upset over who signs the checks?

Chaps my hide? Not at all. We stopped this improper transaction in its tracks, all to ensure we'd get our funds from the loan we agreed to. Nothing more. With your side swiping the physical check and illegally changing control of the accounts, we could very well have been left with nothing.

On July 11th, the funds were yours to do with as you please. On July 7th, they belonged to all members of 1108, under the control of the elected E-board at that time. Not IBT, not Bill Moore, not our crooked bookkeeper, and not your future e-board leaders.

What check didn't get signed that would have been had the authorizations not been changed, hmmm?

None, because we were prepared for this.

You and your leaders apparently assume we were going to clean out the accounts before we left. Nothing could be further from the truth, and this despicable action is going to hurt your union for years to come because of the complicity your leadership has shown IBT.

How are you going to say "no" to anything IBT asks, when you've already demonstrated you'll break the law when they tell you to?

 

[TORCH67]

What's your point slave? What allegations and what wrong doings! Did the NJA eboard members hide behind closed doors. Did they set up illegal bank accounts? Did they take a check out of the office and have a bookeeper hide the fact? Did they pose as President and Treasurer before they were actually that?

What were the REAL Eboard members going to do? Were they going to withdraw 1.2 million in cash and buy laptops for everyone? You keep saying that nothing was stolen, but you forget the fact that a check was deposited without the knowledge of the CURRENT and REAL EBoard members.

#1. If it wasn't for the vigilance of the REAL EBoard members what would have happend to the $377,000?

#2. What would have happend to the unpaid expenses?


You still haven't answered my question about who called the authorities! I don't think it was the IBT or the FO EBoard members????

 

[NJAPLT]

The check from NetJets was. If it was a legal transaction, why was it done in a dark office with someone the bookkeper let in the back door?

Actually, I think it's the same law that let G. Gordon Liddy go into some offices at the Watergate Hotel....:laugh:

 

[RNObased]

Cast of Thousands

As a FLOPS pilot, I hope your wrong

Cast of Thousands is rarely wrong....

I feel for the FLOPS guy's, but you can always vote in another set of leaders.

 

[TORCH67]

It's been fun Slave and all but I will leave you with this.

Betrayal, a form of deception or dismissal of prior presumptions, is the breaking or violation of a presumptive social contract (trust, or confidence) that produces moral and psychological conflict within a relationship amongst individuals, between organizations or between individuals and organizations. Often betrayal is the act of supporting a rival group, or it is a complete break from previously decided upon or presumed norms by one party from the others.

Good luck to you and the other Options pilots!
To the Teamsters ------>uke:

 

[Grizz]

But you know, I'm curious, is that why our message board went down in the middle of the night last night, you folks being supportive, "to all Flight Options pilots" and all?

We turned over adminstration of that site to Flight Options pilots and their tech staff yesterday around close of business. They were planning on moving the website to a different server as soon as possible. I don't know where that move stands but I would suspect that was the problem. Someone tinkering with something they didn't understand.

That being said, I got a call about an hour ago while I was out with my wife asking for me to see if I could fix it. As soon as I catch up on all the silliness on this thread, I'm going over there to troubleshoot it.

Gerry - you might want to talk to your tech folks before you start slinging accusations - especially when they are asking for my help.

 

[steelersrule74]

c'mon grizz, helping out others??? say it isn't so!!!!

 

[IDEtoNJA]

c'mon grizz, helping out others??? say it isn't so!!!!

Hey ... We all know that Steelers fans don't know anything about helping others!

IDEtoNJA

 

[x402]

FO pilots need to recall their e-board. Perhaps they need a fresh start, sound familiar?
I'm not surprised the IBT used the Trustees and less surprised they duped a bookkeeper.
Personally, I'm thrilled to be rid of the IBT. I'm sorry the pilot group at FO is still fighting for a fair share of the pie.
Resignations should be forthcoming, they will need to address their full attention to the legal problems they have brought on themselves.

I wonder if the IBT will pick up their legal fee's? mmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[GerryG]

We turned over adminstration of that site to Flight Options pilots and their tech staff yesterday around close of business. They were planning on moving the website to a different server as soon as possible. I don't know where that move stands but I would suspect that was the problem. Someone tinkering with something they didn't understand.

That being said, I got a call about an hour ago while I was out with my wife asking for me to see if I could fix it. As soon as I catch up on all the silliness on this thread, I'm going over there to troubleshoot it.

Gerry - you might want to talk to your tech folks before you start slinging accusations - especially when they are asking for my help.

Ok Grizz, point taken.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

We turned over adminstration of that site to Flight Options pilots and their tech staff yesterday around close of business. They were planning on moving the website to a different server as soon as possible. I don't know where that move stands but I would suspect that was the problem. Someone tinkering with something they didn't understand.

That being said, I got a call about an hour ago while I was out with my wife asking for me to see if I could fix it. As soon as I catch up on all the silliness on this thread, I'm going over there to troubleshoot it.

Gerry - you might want to talk to your tech folks before you start slinging accusations - especially when they are asking for my help.

Talk about some CRAZY spin...what a joke.
Let me guess, after you took down the board and prompted people to go to the dot COM version, you now have the sign in data for whoever put their info in.....
No one with a brain in their head believes any of the crap you guys are posting on here...let the lawyers hash it out, and we'll see the truth (of course long after the damage your words and actions caused has been done).
Called you jokers from DAY ONE. Wouldn't be surprised if NJASAP is an incarnation of NJ management.
Good luck to the good NJ guys...what a mess of LAZY don't -want-to be scheduled to work "leaders" who additionally wanted the prying eyes of IBT National out of their money to write checks as they please with no one to answer to. THAT's the reason for separation...don't be misled. And you poor scheduled/WORKING pilots let them have free reign.
Unreal.
At least Good triumphed over evil for once.

 

[Grizz]

Gerry,

I left a message for MT and LH. It looks like a file permission problem to me (and Google). CHMOD 755 or 775 should solve the problem

 

[Voice Of Reason]

I see B19 is viewing and enjoying this bogus thread. Don't worry B19, you've won nothing...the flops pilots won't believe YOUR FUD OR the NJ Association of Secret Accounting Practices FUD.

 

[Grizz]

Talk about some CRAZY spin...what a joke.
Let me guess, after you took down the board and prompted people to go to the dot COM version, you now have the sign in data for whoever put their info in.....

vBulletin doesn't work that way. Forum Admins don't see passwords. They can reset a password but that's it.

But keep believing whatever you wish - don't let facts stand in the way.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Projecting as usual....

 

[GerryG]

Gerry,

I left a message for MT and LH. It looks like a file permission problem to me (and Google). CHMOD 755 or 775 should solve the problem

Thats Greek to me, but sounds like a good start.

Thanks Grizz.

Perhaps it's time to start de-escalating this situation?

 

[Grizz]

Gerry,

Our beef was never with the Flight Options pilots as a group.

 

[Freedom]

Here comes B19 guys.....

Tapped onto his Screen Name and he is busy typing in some FUD (Fear, Uncertainly, and Doubt) for us all to be shaking in our boots over.

Oh boy, I can't wait:laugh:

Looks like he decided to sit it out on the Sidelines though for now, and see how much damage we can do to eachother, before he comes in to try and finish us off. Maybe B19 is being smarter than I give him credit for. Good decision B19. Why should you work for your Retainer, while we will do the work for you.

Freedom is Not Free