IBT 1108 Attempts to take NJASAP funds

[realityman]

Nope, if it's illegal it's not OK. So I ask you - when the smoke clears and our leadership has been cleared of any illegal activities will you change your tune?

Yes. And offer up a public apology. You have my word on that.

But I don't think I'll be needing to do it.

 

[realityman]

And once again, realityman tries to attack the person instead of debate the issue. Some things never change. I have been FIGHTING for our pilots for the past 4 years and do NOT take things blindly, and DO question things.

I'm not a member of the MEC. I cannot speak for them. I can however support them, and when the GP told them to go and do something, they did it. You say they should have "sided" with you instead, when you were the ones leaving us. I don't see that they had a choice but to do what they were told and I KNOW they did so acting in the best interests of the local and our pilots. You can make them the scape goats if you want and point any and all blame at them for doing so, but it was the National office directing things, and there was no illicit intentions towards the NJA pilots, and the accusations made against MY President and Treasurer that they were trying to steal anything is a blatant and slanderous lie. Shame on you for saying so.

Sigh.

You still don't get it. Once again, read the by-laws and US laws (at least the ones pertinent to this debate). You can then make an INFORMED decision as to whether anyone did anything wrong.

In one breath you say you completely believe what you're being told from IBT and the two accused MEC members, and in another you claim you do question things and don't accept things blindly. Which is it?

Ask the HARD questions (and do some freaking research man!! you know the whole by-laws thing) of your people and IBT and THEN decide. That's all I'm saying.

I wasn't attacking you. Just your attitude of knowing what's going on when without having done any real research you don't.

 

[Grizz]

It is MY understanding that the IBT can place any Local in trusteeship whenever the GP thinks it is necessary.

Blind obedience. Good for you.

By the way, your statement above is absolutely incorrect. Good read the Teamsters Constitution and you'll find out just how wrong you are.

Nice try on the spin though. Next time, get some facts before you leap into a discussion. You won't look so foolish then.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

As to your argument that since we have our money anyway, what's the big deal. It goes like this: laws were broken. Should we really just ignore that? But maybe on a more ethical level, promises were made, in writing, that were broken too, and by association, a serious trust was breached. If you don't think that will have a serious negative impact on the FLOPS pilots, then you're truly in denial.

Is that a threat against Flight Options pilots? If so, what does that mean? Are you going to try and impose some sort of blockade against hiring flight options pilots who had nothing to do with any of this? Are you gonna steal their catering (you won't want it!)?

Please, tell me the negative impact you are referring to.

What do you mean by that?

 

[Fozzy]

I can however support them, and when the GP told them to go and do something, they did it. You say they should have "sided" with you instead, when you were the ones leaving us. I don't see that they had a choice but to do what they were told and I KNOW they did so acting in the best interests of the local and our pilots.

They do not work for the GP. They work for YOU!

If Jimmy calls and says we are going to take that 1.2 MILLION you have in savings, do you expect your "leaders" to say "okay"? That would not be in YOUR best interest would it?
Funny thing is, it is happening right before your eyes!

 

[steelersrule74]

I know I have an anonymous name here, but so you know? I'm not Jimmy Hoffa, Jr. Stop asking me questions only he can answer.

ahhh, but you can answer those questions if only you would make the effort.

article 6, section 5

 

[gunfyter]

So you believe the Trusteeship letter was valid?

Is 1108 in Trusteeship right now?

That would be a negative impact IMO....

 

[realityman]

Is that a threat against Flight Options pilots? If so, what does that mean? Are you going to try and impose some sort of blockade against hiring flight options pilots who had nothing to do with any of this? Are you gonna steal their catering (you won't want it!)?

Please, tell me the negative impact you are referring to.

What do you mean by that?

Dude, you're losing it. Stop and think.

We are STILL providing you with guidance. Our experience is important to helping you get that contract.
Our pilots STILL make donations to helping you out. Even going so far as to starting a fund to help the pilots over there that got fired.

With a loss of trust, that could go away. I'm NOT saying it will go away. Just saying there are areas that we still help, and may be harder to do so now because of what happened.

As for the question of whether I will personally cause problems for the FLOPS pilots. Of course not! and I couldn't even if I wanted to. I'm just a line pilot. An informed line pilot. One who has done a little research, rather than simply take ANYONE'S word for ANYTHING.

 

[Freedom]

IBT 1108 Flight Options Pilots

My Union Leadership Speaks for Me.

Freedom is Not Free

 

[gunfyter]

Reality,

A FLOPS pilot that was fired just told me he has not received any of the money donated.

Where is the money?

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Blind obedience. Good for you.

By the way, your statement above is absolutely incorrect. Good read the Teamsters Constitution and you'll find out just how wrong you are.

Nice try on the spin though. Next time, get some facts before you leap into a discussion. You won't look so foolish then.

Facts of the Powers of the GP to appoint emergency trustee ship are found in Article VI, section 5 of the Teamsters constitution, Grizz. You might read up on it. I have. If you wish to dispute his authority or his reasons on why he would do so on that matter you can do so in court I guess. I will not debate that with you here. What he did he did, I can't speak for him nor do I support or not support what he did - I DO support MY President and Treasurer that they did what he told them to do under NO false intentions, and summarily dismiss the accusations made against them that they were trying to steal anything.

 

[gunfyter]

Are you in Trusteeship?

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Reality,

A FLOPS pilot that was fired just told me he has not received any of the money donated.

Where is the money?

Excellent question. Where IS that money?

 

[steelersrule74]

then please, as i've said before ask your leadership this question:

IS 1108 IN TRUSTEESHIP?

If the local is not, it means that your guys knew that was a b.s. letter from Moore and they didn't care.

If the local is in trusteeship it means your guys have handed the keys to washington and your fate is no longer under your control.

either way, it shows a serious lack of judgement. I will be curious to see how your leadership speaks if asked this question.

 

[realityman]

Excellent question. Where IS that money?

Well, now you have a place to start your REAl research!:nuts:

 

[steelersrule74]

Excellent question. Where IS that money?

most likely a bank in cleveland........

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Realityman - Are you saying you think that the Flight Options MEC has possession of those donations?


Steelersrule74 - Yes, I just referred Grizz to that same section.



My pax are here, I have to go.



My Union Speaks For Me!

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Voice Of Common Freaking Sense

I so predicted that NJs was up to no good from the beginning with all their "help" for their biggest competition that made more than them at the time. They attempted to destroy the company, now the union...
Now, the repeated theme over and over on this thread (and previous threads about them leaving IBT) is NJs pilots claiming how they "left Flops pilots with 'all this' money." In the SAME POSTS they are claiming Flops pilots stole said money....
Now, common sense says that if they were leaving the money, it wouldn't be a problem when they take ownership of it...UNLESS, of course, NJs guys were planning to divert it away. That is the ONLY ONLY reason why this is being made an issue...otherwise why would they care?
Another thing....when you MORONS decided to leave the national union that got you your contract, you voted away all of the money that went to that NATIONAL union, as well as all of its protections (like I said you would have over and over again). I hope NJASAP comes equipped with a big "national" (lol) legal fund to defend what is SEEMS to be the interception of attempted theft on the NJ's side, NOT by Flops, the actual MEMBERS of IBT which holds the money.
You made your bed of nails..enjoy it...I can't wait until NetJets mgt pounces on the weak and vulnerable state you've created for yourselves.
Gotta love karma.

 

[gunfyter]

Voice,

You are going to find out it was ALL Strong Union that got us what we have ... not IBT.

If it were up to the IBT I would be making about 50k less than I do right now. I'd be making less than you are right now.

 

[steelersrule74]

gunfyter, you can't argue with voice of delusion. it was only a matter of time before either he or B19 show up to engage in their mutual circle jerk.......