IBT 1108 Attempts to take NJASAP funds

[Willy21]

When these event happened the NJA pilots were still very much in the 1108 (until 1200amL Friday) and the elected officials should have had control of the bank accounts up to that point. When the transfer took place the NJA pilots walked away. If that was the agreement ,then why did the names on the accounts need to be change three days before the handover? Why did the FO guys not tell people in the 1108 office what they were doing? Why did the bank put a stop to things if everything was ok? There a many things that are coming to the surface that need to be explained. True the NetJets pilots are not a part of the 1108 anymore, but when this chain of events took place we were still in the mix. I was of dues paying member of the 1108 when this went down and I think all 1108 members are due some awnsers. Hopefully time will reveal all. Bottom line it doesn't look good. The actions taken might be illegal or legal, but bottom line how it went down doesn't look good.

I think national pulled a fast one here and unfortunatly two FO pilots got hung up in the mess. Best of luck to you guys, I hope things work out. I for one am glad to be on the outside looking in at this situation.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

You know i'm not angry at the FO pilots, I'm angry at their leadership. Biting the hand that helped them along for so long.

I can't imagine that FO pilots would stand up for this type of corruption in their leadership. They are very honest and straightforward pilots and i would hate to see their reputation tarnished by the acts of two.

Especially if those actions had far reaching consequences to the rest of the FO pilot group.

A real shame.

What hand, Diesel? No one's bitten anything. The only thing that occurred was bank accounts went into the control of the incoming leadership.

Corruption? Better look on your side of the fence for that, I see nothing illicit in what happened and the FO pilots are not going to "keep" anything they are not entitled to. They will however make sure it is handled appropriately and legally. As their pilot group who elected them expects.

 

[CastofThousands]

It is MY understanding that the IBT can place any Local in trusteeship whenever the GP thinks it is necessary.

False. The section of the LMRD that applies to International Union trusteeship authority does not apply under the RLA and 1108 IS a dedicate RLA Local. The IBT lost this case against Local 2000, the NWA Flight Attendants, when they left the IBT. Unfortunately, the IBT raided Local 2000 before the Local 2000 Executive Board could have the invalid trusteeship overturned in court. An illegal preemptive raid is the IBT only option - and make no mistake about it, it is clearly illegal.

Hoffa Jr never had that authority to put 1108 in trusteeship and the NetJets pilots made it impossible for the IBT to raid 1108. Hoffa never even filed the trusteeship paper with the DOL or filed a complaint in court. The Flight Options pilot leadership NEVER bothered to confirm proper processing was completed, otherwise the illegal letter would have been easily dismissed (as the NetJets pilot leadership did). Hence the outcome - NetJets pilots ended up with what they bargained for and agreed to by forcing compliance and maintain control of the Local until the NMB confirmed receipt of the IBT's required letter of no contest.

The Flight Options leaders were willingly used as pawns in an illegal attempt to raid Local 1108 and screw the NetJets pilot group. Furthermore, it was Local 1108 money and the NetJets pilots controlled 1108 until the separation agreement was fully complied with. Therefore, the Executive Board, not Hoffa, controlled the assets of Local 1108 until the very last minute.

The IBT was doing its best to NOT have to submit the letter of no contest to the NMB. Had the NetJets pilot leadership not controlled the assets, money, and function of 1108 until the end, the IBT would have baulked. The IBT signed the final documents with a metaphorical [political] gun to their head.

This was all anticipated and the Flight Options pilot leadership were told all of this months ago when they were invited on to the Executive Board.

Ignorance is as bad as being complicit. Neither should ever be acceptable. The NetJets pilot leadership was upfront open and honest with the Flight Options pilot group from the get go and tried to maintain a STRONG working relationship apart from the IBT. These Flight Options pilot leaders teamed up with Hoffa Jr to try and pull a fast one on the NetJets pilot group. One that would have had detrimental effects in NetJets pilot representation - one that should never be excused or dismissed.

These actions significantly exposed the NetJets pilot group's representation in a way that can't be buried or dismissed.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

When these event happened the NJA pilots were still very much in the 1108 (until 1200amL Friday) and the elected officials should have had control of the bank accounts up to that point. When the transfer took place the NJA pilots walked away. If that was the agreement ,then why did the names on the accounts need to be change three days before the handover? Why did the FO guys not tell people in the 1108 office what they were doing? Why did the bank put a stop to things if everything was ok? There a many things that are coming to the surface that need to be explained. True the NetJets pilots are not a part of the 1108 anymore, but when this chain of events took place we were still in the mix. I was of dues paying member of the 1108 when this went down and I think all 1108 members are due some awnsers. Hopefully time will reveal all. Bottom line it doesn't look good. The actions take might be illegal or legal, but bottom line how it went down doesn't look good.

I think national pulled a fast one here and unfortunatly two FO pilots got hung up in the mess. Best of luck to you guys, I hope things work out. I for one am glad to be on the outside looking in at this situation.

There was no such agreement on WHO would be on the bank accounts, the agreement only states that dues payments to the net jets pilots will be refunded to them by the local 1108 and that that refund is a loan payment to the NJASAP that must be repaid. There was NO agreement as to who would be an authorized signer on any accounts. That was a decision made by the GP for the FO MEC members to be put on the accounts. There was no monies denied to any IBT 1108 pilots (in any pilot group). All that happened was control was changed. No one was denied anything. Nothing was taken. All the money is still right where it should be, in the control of the local. The local and the 1108's best interests were maintained. The Net Jets pilots will still get the monies authorized them by the agreement in section B.1 and 3. So what's the problem?

 

[Captain Dork]

Good god man get a grip!

As a former banker, and current FO pilot....

They changed the authorized signatures on an account when several members of the group left the organization. Big frigging deal, this happens every day at a bank. The monies did not go to an off-shore account, under a secret account number. If you are owed money, you will be able to find us.

In banking we receive many legal notices indicating a forced transfer of funds beacause of divorce, mechanic leans, non-payment of child support, it goes on and on. And that is, if it should ever come to that.

A basic truth in banking-when you leave an organization, you no longer get to write checks on their checking account, even if the organization still may owe you some monies.

 

[CastofThousands]

As the Former President of a Local Fraternity which was part of a National Fraternity, I can tell you that our "Local" had a set of By-Laws, and our National had a set of By-Laws.

Care to guess who's By-Laws trumped who's?

You got it; the National By-Laws took precidence over the Local By-Laws EVERY TIME.

It's part of being a Member of a National Organization.

The NetJets Pilots will no longer have to worry about such conflicts in their future, they have cut the cord.

But that does not mean the Flight Options Pilots no longer need to work hand in hand with our National. We are obligated to do so; and frankly, when it comes to having access to funds that should have no longer been under the NetJets Pilots control, I am glad our Leadership stepped into make the changes for authorized signatures.

We are dealing with individuals on both sides of this conflict. Individuals can at times do the wrong things if given the opportunity. Now, the funds which rightfully belong to the CURRENT Members of the IBT 1108 are Secured; those are funds the Flight Options Pilots will indeed need to complete their battle for a First Contract.

I for one, sleep better knowing these funds are now controlled by the Current Leadership of the IBT 1108, not by the Former Leadership of the IBT 1108. And it has nothing to do with any sort of distrust of the former leadership; it has everything to do with the responsible behavior My Leadership has demonstrated to secure the funds of My Local.

Thank you Mat S. and AJ M., President and Treasurer of the IBT local 1108.

Freedom is Not Free

The failure in the above post is not recognizing the Flight Options pilot group and new 1108 ended up with far less than they would have otherwise received.

The NJASAP and retiring NJA 1108 leadership PLEDGE continued support to the Flight Options pilots; financial and whatever else may be needed in the Flight Options pilot efforts.

This was a bad move - Now we get to see if the IBT will provide what the NetJets pilots provided, and offered to continue to provide; unconditionally.

 

[Willy21]

Why did the names on the accounts have to be changed on Monday when the leadership was not transfered until Friday?
Why were the elected offficials of the 1108, their term ended on Friday, not told the names were being changed on Monday?

 

[Fozzy]

So what's the problem?

The problem is they tried to do the "change of power", if you will, days before it was supposed to happen!!! They stole a check from 1108 and set up accounts that were not legal as they we not yet running the show, as the transfer was not to take place for DAYS. These guy got caught and now are trying to make excuses. They BROKE THE LAW.
This is all straight out of the IBT play-book. They were trying to screw us, and cost us 3 more months dues.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

These Flight Options pilot leaders teamed up with Hoffa Jr to try and pull a fast one on the NetJets pilot group. One that would have had detrimental effects in NetJets pilot representation - one that should never be excused or dismissed.

These actions significantly exposed the NetJets pilot group's representation in a way that can't be buried or dismissed.

Says you.


Again. What monies do you feel you should have that you do not have? What monies, other than what's listed in the agreement in section B.1 and 3 do you feel you should have, and why?

What you call a raid, I see as control maintained of IBT 1108 funds. NOTHING was taken. If you disagree, well, that's what courts are for. To say that was thievery is a lie. The money's right where it always was - in the control of the 1108. Sorry that chaps your hide, but you should NOT have access to 1108 funds anymore. In my humble opinion.

No one's answered my questions however.


From what I am told, the IBT is not worried about what they did legally. If you think you have a legal case, we'll see what happens in court. Personally, I think you guys had "plans" that perhaps were not in the 1108's best interests but were in "other's", and they got thwarted because you didn't have access to those funds, which are and always were, in the control of the 1108, and that the NJASAP leadership didn't get to pull the "fast one" they were planning because Hoffa stopped it from occurring. That's pure speculation, no way I could prove that, but obviously there's a reason there is such obvious discontent over the transfer of control of the money. No one's denying the NJASAP pilot's entitled monies. No one took anything, from what I see, and no one's saying the NJASAP pilots won't get the agreed upon entitlements.

So again. WHAT is the problem? What MONEY is it you think was "stolen"? WHY do you think the NJASAP pilot leadership should have access to 1108 bank accounts? Answer those questions, please.

 

[CastofThousands]

There was no such agreement on WHO would be on the bank accounts, the agreement only states that dues payments to the net jets pilots will be refunded to them by the local 1108 and that that refund is a loan payment to the NJASAP that must be repaid. There was NO agreement as to who would be an authorized signer on any accounts. That was a decision made by the GP for the FO MEC members to be put on the accounts. There was no monies denied to any IBT 1108 pilots (in any pilot group). All that happened was control was changed. No one was denied anything. Nothing was taken. All the money is still right where it should be, in the control of the local. The local and the 1108's best interests were maintained. The Net Jets pilots will still get the monies authorized them by the agreement in section B.1 and 3. So what's the problem?

The Local 1108 Bylaws mandate who will be a signatory on the bank accounts and when. Go read 'em, it's not complicated.

The NetJets pilots got their money and assets on the way out the [1108] door. They honored the agreement and didn't leave with anymore than they agreed to take - because it was in the interests of the Flight Options pilot group. The NetJets pilots could have left with everything - don't get confused about that fact - the NetJets pilots could have easily left with EVERYTHING.

The NetJets pilots took what they agreed to and honored their agreement - simply because they represent all NetJets pilots in words and deeds. A pilot group must be proud to associate with its leadership and representation if that pilot group is going to succeed.

 

[steelersrule74]

It is MY understanding that the IBT can place any Local in trusteeship whenever the GP thinks it is necessary.


Again, I find it suspicious that there are those among the NJASAP pilot group that feel "they" deserve access to funds of a Union they are no longer part of.

In the first statement, your understanding is wrong. There is a very high legal threshold to be met for trusteeship. The GP does have emergency powers for (i believe) 15 days of trusteeship, but that would require a disaster such as the eboard being arrested or a physical disaster that prevented the eboard form performing their duties. Since nothing like that was happening at 1108, the GP was FAR outside of his abilities and authority to attempt to do so.

As to deserving anything. The netjets pilots believe we are entitled to the 12 month loan that was negotiated. The rub is, if this sneak attack had been allowed to succeed the separation would have been delayed for 120 days and during that time the netjets pilots (who would still be in 1108) would have no access to ANY of their dues money since it would have now been controlled by the trustee. I'd like to see if anyone thinks a pilot who contributes dues to a union is not entitled to their own money while still a member....

 

[gunfyter]

Dork,

On July 7th and 8th. Who was president of the IBT Local 1108. Was it NJA Captain Greg Rountree?

 

[Options_SLAVE]

The problem is they tried to do the "change of power", if you will, days before it was supposed to happen!!! They stole a check from 1108 and set up accounts that were not legal as they we not yet running the show, as the transfer was not to take place for DAYS. These guy got caught and now are trying to make excuses. They BROKE THE LAW.
This is all straight out of the IBT play-book. They were trying to screw us, and cost us 3 more months dues.

Wrong. They stole no such check, they stopped one. Had it went through the way it was going to, there was a good chance they would have never seen that money back. There IS a check missing however, that they'd love to know where it is, since it is SIGNED. They also were members of the e-Board and were authorized by Hoffa to set up the accounts.

You'll get your dues... as a loan, as agreed. No one's denying that from what I was told. So again. I see nothing stolen. Control was maintained in the local.

 

[Captain Dork]

Duh

Our guys do not live at the bank or in Columbus, they have jobs that require travel. They're FO pilots. It was done when they were available. The new office will be in Cleveland, see the phone book for IBT1108.

 

[CastofThousands]

From what I am told, the IBT is not worried about what they did legally.

That's the point ... Blink when you catch up.

I wish the Flight Options pilots the best. I will continue to do what I can to get every possible Flight Options pilot an interview and job offer at NetJets. I know we have interviewed and hired many good people and pilots, and will continue to do so moving forward.

Always trust the pilots with the facts! That's the point of this exercise - That's what a Strong Union does!

All my best,

 

[KigAir]

What baffles me is why anybody would want to do business with or be represented by a Hoffa.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

In the first statement, your understanding is wrong. There is a very high legal threshold to be met for trusteeship. The GP does have emergency powers for (i believe) 15 days of trusteeship, but that would require a disaster such as the eboard being arrested or a physical disaster that prevented the eboard form performing their duties. Since nothing like that was happening at 1108, the GP was FAR outside of his abilities and authority to attempt to do so.

As to deserving anything. The netjets pilots believe we are entitled to the 12 month loan that was negotiated. The rub is, if this sneak attack had been allowed to succeed the separation would have been delayed for 120 days and during that time the netjets pilots (who would still be in 1108) would have no access to ANY of their dues money since it would have now been controlled by the trustee. I'd like to see if anyone thinks a pilot who contributes dues to a union is not entitled to their own money while still a member....

From what I see, a change of leadership and a significant amount of monies involved would be a good enough reason to instill emergency trusteeship, but I'm not a lawyer and unless you are, both of our opinions are moot. No such dues are being denied from what I was told. There is an agreement for a loan, I can't imagine the MEC not complying with that. I can't speak to the check that is being referred to, I do not know about any such check. However, I could see the funds getting locked up in court should things head that way, and instead of 120 days it could be YEARS.


I've said just about all I can speak on from what I've been told here, fellas. All I can say is I can personally vouch for Ma Sli and Er Ma and that the FO pilot group, including those 2, have no intention of denying the NJA pilots any funds they are intitled to, and that what they did was done at the direction of the IBT National. Any toes that were stepped on in teh process were not done malitiously, and there is NO intent on the FO pilots to want to deny the NJA pilots any monies they are entitled to. If there were legal mis-steps, that's what lawyers are for to settle.

The bottom line here is that calling the FO pilots thieves is wrong. We don't want to steal anyone's money. We owe everything we have in our Union to the NJA pilots. Every pilot I know feels that way. We do not want to wrong our brothers and there is no intention on doing so. Any accusations of such are false and misguided.

 

[steelersrule74]

From what I am told, the IBT is not worried about what they did legally.

wow, you really have a high opinion of the IBT's abilities. Newsflash, there ain't no Mensa folks working in washington. The reality of the IBT is that any locals that are successful enjoy that success IN SPITE of the IBT, not because of it. As I've said in other posts, use what little they offer to your advantage - but if FLOPS pilots think the IBT are going to produce results for ya,.............yeesh.

oh, and perhaps instead of passing on 'what you've been told' - you might read the bylaws, separation agreement and find out for yourself.

 

[gunfyter]

Slave,

With the 1108 in TRUSTEESHIP as some believe Hoffa had a right to do ... How could the new 1108 e-Board ensure the loan agreement would be complied with? It would be all up to Hoffa.

 

[steelersrule74]

The bottom line here is that calling the FO pilots thieves is wrong. We don't want to steal anyone's money. We owe everything we have in our Union to the NJA pilots. Every pilot I know feels that way. We do not want to wrong our brothers and there is no intention on doing so. Any accusations of such are false and misguided.

fair enough, we know the pilots at FLOPS are not responsible for this - only a few misguided individuals..