NWA/DAL negotiations update

[General Lee]

So doh with base/equipment fences should be no problem. I will gladly stay in msp/dtw if my seniority is protected. PS I live in the south and would never, I repeat never move to atl and I here the commute is a bitch from where I live.

couple really inhospitable hubs that 99% of our guys would not want

Put that in writing----no hub changes for any NWA pilot or Delta pilot (from a DL/NWA hub to the other's hub etc)---EVER. Sounds gravy. So, what happens if they open a new hub in Wichita or somewhere else? Then Relative Seniority should work, right? For a new hub---maybe a Honolulu hub or San Juan hub. There has NEVER been an ALPA merger with DOH---only relative seniority. So, you should have no problem with that, as long as we all stay in our own bases. Sounds good. Call the lawyers.....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

So doh with base/equipment fences should be no problem.

You wont get DOH in the new Delta. Kiss that good bye. Hasn't anyone told you, DOH was removed from ALPA merger policy. Not to worry though, you'll get relative seniority by comparable categories. That will protect your interests and what you bring to the merger.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Is there ANY way I could convince all of you soon-to-be-joined-at-the-hip-for-the-rest-of-your-careers numbskulls to quit sniping at each other?

Give it a rest.
Support your MEC.
Focus on the benefits...not the piques.

The industry is at the precipice. Everything I'm hearing indicates there will be money thrown at both pilot groups to put this together, if we can do it without having a meltdown.

If you're not up for it, fine. You can be one of that 5% of each group that cause us to shake our heads in dismay, until somebody throws a telethon to raise money for their forced sterilization.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Occam,

Just bored on reserve. No open time. Having a little fun with the ptp boys and the talking points. Take care.

Is there ANY way I could convince all of you soon-to-be-joined-at-the-hip-for-the-rest-of-your-careers numbskulls to quit sniping at each other?

Give it a rest.
Support your MEC.
Focus on the benefits...not the piques.

The industry is at the precipice. Everything I'm hearing indicates there will be money thrown at both pilot groups to put this together, if we can do it without having a meltdown.

If you're not up for it, fine. You can be one of that 5% of each group that cause us to shake our heads in dismay, until somebody throws a telethon to raise money for their forced sterilization.

 

[Superpilot92]

Is there ANY way I could convince all of you soon-to-be-joined-at-the-hip-for-the-rest-of-your-careers numbskulls to quit sniping at each other?

Give it a rest.
Support your MEC.
Focus on the benefits...not the piques.

The industry is at the precipice. Everything I'm hearing indicates there will be money thrown at both pilot groups to put this together, if we can do it without having a meltdown.

If you're not up for it, fine. You can be one of that 5% of each group that cause us to shake our heads in dismay, until somebody throws a telethon to raise money for their forced sterilization.

Couldn't agree more! There is no point in fighting one another on here we are very close to being on the same team. I cant wait till its over so we can ALL move forward.

 

[PuffDriver]

Couldn't agree more! There is no point in fighting one another on here we are very close to being on the same team. I cant wait till its over so we can ALL move forward.

Thirded.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Is there ANY way I could convince all of you soon-to-be-joined-at-the-hip-for-the-rest-of-your-careers numbskulls to quit sniping at each other?

Give it a rest.
Support your MEC.
Focus on the benefits...not the piques.

The industry is at the precipice. Everything I'm hearing indicates there will be money thrown at both pilot groups to put this together, if we can do it without having a meltdown.

If you're not up for it, fine. You can be one of that 5% of each group that cause us to shake our heads in dismay, until somebody throws a telethon to raise money for their forced sterilization.

Couldn't agree more. Trying to take the high road but it's hard to resist responding to someone who manages to spin the fact that DL 767 rates are the same as DL 757 rates without acknowledging the other way of looking at it --- that the 757 pays the same as the 767, which pay the same as the A330!

As far pay raises go -- that's great. But what protections are some of us junior guys going to get against a 100% pay cut?

 

[nwaredtail]

As far pay raises go -- that's great. But what protections are some of us junior guys going to get against a 100% pay cut?

[/QUOTE]

None, enjoy the airline industry!

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

None, other than recall rights. But you do get the pride of being a delta pilot to tell your neighbors and family. A delta that will finally have a presence in the pacific. A delta that will be the worlds largest airline until the next merger.




As far pay raises go -- that's great. But what protections are some of us junior guys going to get against a 100% pay cut?[/quote]

 

[JohnDoe]

As far pay raises go -- that's great. But what protections are some of us junior guys going to get against a 100% pay cut?

None unfortunately. No-furlough clauses aren't worth the paper they are printed on. 9-11 proved that.

 

[General Lee]

Couldn't agree more. Trying to take the high road but it's hard to resist responding to someone who manages to spin the fact that DL 767 rates are the same as DL 757 rates without acknowledging the other way of looking at it --- that the 757 pays the same as the 767, which pay the same as the A330!

As far pay raises go -- that's great. But what protections are some of us junior guys going to get against a 100% pay cut?

Protections? Well, depending on when the DC9s are parked (they will be eventually), the timing of the SLI is important. Since it is the smallest plane in our combined fleet, I would think even an arbitrator would place those pilots at the bottom (especially if he/she decides to put some 744 pilots at the top). That could help your situation. And, if it is relative seniority, then every time we add a new hire pilot, your relative seniority increases. So, if we do hire "438" pilots this Fall, then you have just placed an addition 400-500 NWA guys below you most likely. (all done with relative seniority). Plenty of NWA people may not like that, but neither did the 17 year USAir Eastie who was placed 2nd from the bottom by Nicelau. It will take awhile until our operating certificates are combined(end of 09), and that will allow some hiring possibly on our side.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

None unfortunately. No-furlough clauses aren't worth the paper they are printed on. 9-11 proved that.

They can always use a force mejeur clause, but they have to prove it. Delta did furlough a large number after 9-11, but a chunk of those were returned fairly quickly because the arbitrator found that Delta did it improperly. Currently, pilots at Delta above TBKANE have no furlough protection that states regardless of the economy or fuel prices, no furloughs. I guess the company could try, but an arbitrator would likely look into that too and see what the exact reasons were. Hopefully our new contract will have something similar.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jetjockey#1]

They can always use a force mejeur clause, but they have to prove it. Delta did furlough a large number after 9-11, but a chunk of those were returned fairly quickly because the arbitrator found that Delta did it improperly. Currently, pilots at Delta above TBKANE have no furlough protection that states regardless of the economy or fuel prices, no furloughs. I guess the company could try, but an arbitrator would likely look into that too and see what the exact reasons were. Hopefully our new contract will have something similar.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Unfortunately General the no-furlough clause is really not worth the paper is written on. The reason is, it doesn’t cost the company money, let me explain. If tomorrow they furlough 1000 pilots, they have no further responsibility to these folks, I understand re-training and so on. However, how about instead of a no furlough clause, a clause stating that furloughed pilots will keep receiving medical benefits as any active pilot, and he/she will keep receiving B fund/401k contributions based on 70 hours from the equipment they were flying up to the furlough. Then and only then they would think about furloughing pilots.

 

[General Lee]

Unfortunately General the no-furlough clause is really not worth the paper is written on. The reason is, it doesn’t cost the company money, let me explain. If tomorrow they furlough 1000 pilots, they have no further responsibility to these folks, I understand re-training and so on. However, how about instead of a no furlough clause, a clause stating that furloughed pilots will keep receiving medical benefits as any active pilot, and he/she will keep receiving B fund/401k contributions based on 70 hours from the equipment they were flying up to the furlough. Then and only then they would think about furloughing pilots.

That is not really correct, since the arbitrator actually recalled those Force Mejeur 2 guys back with pay. So, it did cost them money in the end, and they had to keep paying for them when they didn't have the spots to put them. It made them think twice about furloughing without cause. But, I agree with what you are saying, it would be better for us to have something in our new contract like medical benefits paid by the company, or 401K contributions for the DC fund paid during furlough at 70 hours. Sure, that would be great.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

One big thing the NWA guys will also benefit from is the fact that the furloughees did not accrue longevity on their "dream vacation" while our guys did.

On the DC-9 jumpseat the other day, the guy in the right seat had less accrued longevity than I have at DL....and he was an early 2001 hire.

All our furloughees came back on the year pay they would have been had they been on property the entire time.

So on top of the % pay increase to bring their contract up to ours, they will get a huge pay increase to change their longevity to where it rightfully should be.