What has ALPA done for me lately?

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You really are too far gone to accept the reality of the ALPA backroom network today. If you want o keep your delusions of grandeur I can not help you. All the while ALPA will continue to lose more of the hearts and minds of pilots daily. Again, I point to the failed Skywest organization as an perfect example. Not only in the loss but the stunning defeat for ALPA. It wasn't even close.

Translation: I never thought I had to work manage my career.. I just thought my career was mx free. Now that I am being called out and told to work to protect my own pay rates, work rules, 401k etc.. it doesn't sit well with me.. these are not my expectations.. I'd rather fight reality...

Now I will have to mention again why there is such low participation nowadays. Read the first paragraph RezO

At the end of the day it is still your career. What are you going to do? be mad or effective?

Yes, blame It on the membership again. Do you ever see a pattern here?

Who else should I blame your career on? Me?

Who would have known that we would be paying dues to an organization that really does not represent the best interests of the entire membership?

Agreed. With only 30% of the membership bothering to vote in career representation at ALPA LEC meetings, it is no wonder ALPA doesn't represent membership interests. I mean how can they..HOW can ALPA represent those who won't speak?

I know what you mean about statements and comments getting old. Do us all a favor and let somebody else do the volunteering with your general attitude. You may do good work but your attitude and placement of blame does far more damage than good by alienating those that cast a weary eye on your actual work.

The problem is MY career is effected by your angst and apathy... only we when are all effective can we effect change. ALPA isn't regulatory so we must have consensus... Did MLK jr effect change because he had gov't rule?

On May 17th in Wash DC there was a rally... only 100 ALPA pilots showed up. Where you there? And guess what.. the 100 pilots where the same ol' suspects.. the same ol elected pilots that keep showing and representing...why..cause the membership is too lazy to get off thier tails for thier OWN careers...

“Man”? Are you dense?

got it.... youre a chick.... does it matter?

Yet you still don’t realize why you have to actually do that do you? I think you need to take a good hard look in the mirror. The answer is there it is just you keep choosing to disregard it.

It is your career... your mirror...

You do. Along with the elected leadership.



Still can’t figure out why the low participation can you?

I know whay participation is low.. pilots expect others to do the work for them and they don't have the political skillset... so they create ALPA into an enemy so they can divert blame... it is called refusal to accept responsiblity....

Where did I blame the volunteers?

Sitck with me .....this is going to get good...

You sound like a lunatic at times with your misnomers and hyperbole replies towards what people write. I think half the time pilots on here just ignore your continuing fulsome writings because the summary of your messages is you have nothing actually legitimate to say.

It is still your career.... your work rules, pay, etc... you can get involved or you can leave it up to guys like me...

Failure to particapte in politics allows those to be ruled by thier inferiors....

Now, I am sure you think that I am your inferior... but why would you let me make decsions for you.. what does that say about you...

Save the woe be to me speech and continued haranguing as I commend the volunteers.

You commend the volunteers? What about the political backstabbing and backroom network...? Which of course is compromised of ..... here it comes.....wait for it...... wait.... volunteers!!

So you commend the volunteers that make the organization that you despise... without the volunteers there is no organization.. you can't have it both ways.. either you commend or condem the organzation of volunteers...

My problem of ALPA today is the structure,

Good. What are you going to do about it?

political insulation of leadership and like it or not the insulting salaries paid to the brass. However volunteers like yourself, as I said before, do more harm than good with your attitude about participation, blame and fault.

And you do more harm that good with your apathy based on misinformation. No matter what.. at the end of the day..it is your career.

Somewhere you have intentionally blurred the lines of many with their feelings today towards ALPA. You always try to turn it into a problem with the membership and attacks on volunteers within the organization.

Ahhh.. today's feelings... not like the good ol' days of ALPA...

Me thinks that people think ALPA used to be great during the golden age of this career...

I would kick you right t in the nutsack for that comment you arrogant little toad however in reality one must consider the source.

Let's stay focused on your career... your pay rates, your work rules, your 401K, your health benefits.. do you really want a jerk like me to making decisions about your life... when you come to work, how much you get paid, when you will retire....

If not... then don't be a part of the 70% that refuses to particapte in thier careers... get involved... get educated, ask questions, volunteer,

Besides, I probably wouldn’t hit anything anyway as someone obviously eviscerated it long ago and nothing is left.

Focus! Your career is at stake. You can hate me or you can fight for our profession and your career...

The problem with your argument is that participation rates haven't "dropped off the cliff," because they have always been this low. During the old days, participation rates where exactly the same. A couple of years ago ALPA did a study of participation rates by going through the old archives to see if things had changed. The results? Participation rates are the same now as they've always been in the Association. There hasn't been any drop off, pilots are just lazy and apathetic and always have been.

here is a reference... qt....how does this fit into your ideals?

From Flying the Line, Vol. 1, page 227: ​

Inevitably, a new generation arrived made up of pilots less steeped in the past struggles and more content about the professional status ALPA had created for them. The new generation was also increasingly indifferent to ALPA and its administration. Pioneer pilots, by and large, paid close attention to ALPA affairs, and they couldn’t understand the lackadaisical attitude of the younger pilots, partically when it came to governance at the local level. By the late 1950s, many pilots simply took for granted that somebody else would do the hard work needed to sustain ALPA. While complacent pilots golfed or pursued second careers, a minority ran ALPA’s local affairs on each airline. ​

Although most of these individuals were dedicated to making ALPA work, on some airlines a few pilots used ALPA as a gimmick for personal aggrandizement. The indifference of the rank and file and the poor attendance at local council meetings meant that a minority on any airline could, with proper planning, seize control and eventually dominate the master executive council (MEC) itself. The danger was that a well-organized clique could speak for an indifferent majority of pilots.​

​

 

[flygirlqt]

That voluminous reply is going to take a day to digest. Be as it may, you still keep up with the same old schtick of the real problems within ALPA. The results and current state of affairs speaks for itself.

Incidentally, is PCL_128 and you head of the ALPA mutual admiration society?

 

[CFIT]

Don't worry flygirl, you've got Rez on the defensive back pedal, he had to use "fly the line" as his last line of defense mantra.

You go girl!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

That voluminous reply is going to take a day to digest. Be as it may, you still keep up with the same old schtick of the real problems within ALPA. The results and current state of affairs speaks for itself.

Incidentally, is PCL_128 and you head of the ALPA mutual admiration society?

The real problems of ALPA exists... just like they do of any oganization of people: family, church, gov't, etc...

the difference is.. I am willing to work the problems and fight for positive change.. whereas you... as I gather are simply packing up your marbles and going home... pouting, chiding and breeding negativity...


Why is it I am willing to to spend time on our careers but you easily evade the effort to even discuss it... which is a strong indicator that you expect others to defend your career and when your expectations aren't met you've got the easy tactic of blame game... a classic behaviorial trait of irresponsbility...

Finally you got a a real classic SKYW responsbility dodger backing you up.... CFIT... this guy has been refusing to answer the real questions...

I'll give you the cliff notes...

Your career is your responsibility.. I am inviting you to particapte in democracy to make our profeession and your career better.. the choice is not mine, not ALPA's, rather... it is yours....


p.s. is this too long for you?

 

[Flopgut]

You're withholding important PAC money because you disagree with a single issue? I disagreed with the change in policy on Age-60 also, but I continued to back the PAC because I understood the importance of other battles that ALPA was fighting on Capital Hill. Pension reform, flight/duty times, the Akaka amendment, flight deck security, etc.... are all issues that ALPA is currently dealing with, not to mention the huge issue of foreign control and ownership. Open skies has the ability to completely eliminate your career, yet you'll withhold PAC money because Age-65 will simply delay your seniority advancement? What good is Age-60 if some Mexican pilot working for peanuts is flying our flying? We need to prioritize. Notice that both Occam and I disagreed with ALPA's change in policy on Age-60, but we recognized the important of the PAC on other issues. We can't give up on the PAC because of a single issue.

I'm not proud of it, but I'm not giving any money to PAC right now. I've spoken at length with our legeslative affairs guy and he's made it clear: Age 65 trumps any other political issue. It's especially strange to be a CAL pilot, where almost NONE of want to work past 60, and we've got one of our own on top vehemently pushing for an issue we don't want. I don't know what deal JP made to get in his position, but it has everything to do with pushing age change. Our guy made it pretty clear to me, JP would make any deal to get that done. I can't support that.

 

[PCL_128]

I'm not proud of it, but I'm not giving any money to PAC right now. I've spoken at length with our legeslative affairs guy and he's made it clear: Age 65 trumps any other political issue. It's especially strange to be a CAL pilot, where almost NONE of want to work past 60, and we've got one of our own on top vehemently pushing for an issue we don't want. I don't know what deal JP made to get in his position, but it has everything to do with pushing age change. Our guy made it pretty clear to me, JP would make any deal to get that done. I can't support that.

I can't really disagree that Prater is pushing the age-change agenda pretty hard. That's a fact, and it's very disappointing. However, it's only one of many issues, and it shouldn't cloud your judgment about other more important issues. Again, age change is a tiny matter compared to open skies and foreign control/ownership. And just so you know, the CAL EVP fought pretty hard for you guys on the Age-60 issue when Prater took it to the Executive Council. Your EVP is representing your interests well, even when it conflicts with Prater's wishes.

 

[Occam's Razor]

I'm pretty sure a lawsuit is a sufficient means to bear out some facts. We're gonna find out! This dude DOES need to cool it on here, but this is a good topic for this thread.

Does common sense require a lawsuit?

What shocking discovery is gonna change the fact that duly-elected TWA reps voted to waive their rights?

Was it Colonel Mustard in the parlor with a knife?

I suspect the "poor agrieved victims" have bupkis. If they held a smoking gun tying the vote of their reps to some sinister plot executed by Duane Woerth and a squad of his most ardent covert frogmen...they'd have used it to recruit more victims into the fold.

If I've unfairly characterized you with regard to ALPA merger policy, let me know.

I dunno. Doesn't matter. Merger Policy has evolved since 1986. It still needs work. I favor more centralized control of the process to prevent panicked reps at the local level from making quick decisions based on the stream of urine that's pouring down both pant legs.

Do you really believe this TWA lawsuit could cost too much to run to ground?

My analogy is the guy who tired to commit suicide by jumping on the subway tracks in NYC, then sued the Transit Authority when the brakeman didn't stop in time.

True dat.

 

[Flopgut]

And just so you know, the CAL EVP fought pretty hard for you guys on the Age-60 issue when Prater took it to the Executive Council. Your EVP is representing your interests well, even when it conflicts with Prater's wishes.

I appreciate the feedback, especially coming from you. It's time to review that decision for next year and I should probably stop not giving to PAC. So much of CALALPA holds the same opinion as our EVP we just can't believe our MC and JP are doing what they are doing. I believe if it fails to change this time around and we can put it on the back burner for a year or so, we'll get these guys back on track. I'll get through NOV and then review my contribution decision. Because you are right.

 

[PCL_128]

Glad to hear it.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Good job,PCL...and way to go Flopgut !! At least think it through before writing off the whole idea of contributing . As PCL pointed out,there are way too many things out there over the horizon to make contributing (or not ) a one-issue item.

:beer:


PHXFLYR









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