Options

[jonjuan]

I have been at Options for almost 9 years and have a vested interest in staying here until we have a CBA or the company turns the lights out.

These are not mutually exclusive. Owners are also fleeing. A new pilot CBA will not keep them from doing so. Vastly different dynamics than NJA, pre-CBA.
"I bought the stock at $100 and it's now at $50. I can't sell it, because.....I bought it at $100." Problem is, because of the fundamentals, the stock could be at $30 in no time. Even Buffet would tell you to cut your losses before 9 years turns into 12 and then upgrade at NJA is 7 years. Good luck.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Yawn...days long ago.

Uh huh. We can tell.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

These are not mutually exclusive. Owners are also fleeing. A new pilot CBA will not keep them from doing so. Vastly different dynamics than NJA, pre-CBA.
"I bought the stock at $100 and it's now at $50. I can't sell it, because.....I bought it at $100." Problem is, because of the fundamentals, the stock could be at $30 in no time. Even Buffet would tell you to cut your losses before 9 years turns into 12 and then upgrade at NJA is 7 years. Good luck.

Well, I think your analogy is far from apples to apples - that philosophy may work with a day trader but long-term investors would definitely hold on, and would consider the stock's value of $50 to be an opportune time to buy. Semantics.

Sure, he's admitting he's gambling, and I think also proves his point that he has a VESTED interest in our company doing well. Unlike most professions, ours when you leave and go to a new company you start at the bottom of pay again. A 9-year pilot would be looking at cutting his pay in half or more. I certainly can't afford to do that, I'd rather take my chances and stick it out, and do whatever I could to ensure my company succeeds.

I think most of us who were incredibly relieved when the union came onto our property are of the same mind set. Our company's management squanders our profits. They will spend a nickel to save a penny every time. And when they realize what they've done, they go to their employee group to pay the penalty. Our pilots had enough of that. We hope that having a CBA will force the company to start managing more effectively and stop going to the pilots' pockets to pay for their mistakes.

I for one am tired of paying for management's mistakes. A contract will make management accountable and apply a set of rules on how they treat us. It also will be something they can show our owners: Look how well we treat our pilots - we love our pilots and want them well taken care of, so they will take good care of you." That mentality is working at Net Jets, who is growing.

Our executives all have contracts with flight options. We want nothing less and will settle for nothing less than an industry-leading contract.

 

[Phoenix]

These are not mutually exclusive. Owners are also fleeing. A new pilot CBA will not keep them from doing so. Vastly different dynamics than NJA, pre-CBA.
"I bought the stock at $100 and it's now at $50. I can't sell it, because.....I bought it at $100." Problem is, because of the fundamentals, the stock could be at $30 in no time. Even Buffet would tell you to cut your losses before 9 years turns into 12 and then upgrade at NJA is 7 years. Good luck.

Juan

I understand the principals of diminishing returns and if NJ were the only option I would agree with your analogy. However NJ would not be an option for me at this point in time for many reasons. As such staying and fighting the fight at Options is my best option for the near future.

The best thing that could possibly happen for us would be, bring taken over by a company that appreciated and understands our, the pilots, contribution to our operations. And the first actions they take is putting the boot in our CEO's A$$ and second making a CBA priority 1.

Am I fantasizing, yes but its a good fantasy.

 

[dime line]

Juan

I understand the principals of diminishing returns and if NJ were the only option I would agree with your analogy. However NJ would not be an option for me at this point in time for many reasons. As such staying and fighting the fight at Options is my best option for the near future.

The best thing that could possibly happen for us would be, bring taken over by a company that appreciated and understands our, the pilots, contribution to our operations. And the first actions they take is putting the boot in our CEO's A$$ and second making a CBA priority 1.

.

I'd love to have a contract with all Hilton, and no mikie or his 2 sidekick"s from abroad anywhere on the property. B19 is nothing more than management's puppet.
Am I fantasizing, yes but its a good fantasy

 

[B19 Flyer]

B19 is nothing more than management's puppet.

How do you figure? Because I don't agree with the concept of unions in today's day and age? The only puppets that I see are those that let union leadership lead them down the road of mob mentality.

 

[fischman]

How do you figure? Because I don't agree with the concept of unions in today's day and age?

Yup.

Oh! Maybe because of the fact that you have admitted that you are (or were) management. (You know. The opposite of unions)

 

[Phoenix]

How do you figure? Because I don't agree with the concept of unions in today's day and age? The only puppets that I see are those that let union leadership lead them down the road of mob mentality.

Bob, I guess you would have us all subscribe to the sheep mentality and blindly accept the crap that your two bosses dish out. I don't think so. You know as well as I do had it not been for the attacks on the pilots in the past and that continue today, a Union would have not been successful at Options. Even today with your latest incentive program you have set the stage for the a large percentage of our pilots to to be excluded.

 

[dime line]

Shoot the new incentive program today isn't even worth the time to think about it. What about 1000.00 over one years time. By pulling the throttle back, how much will I save, and the payoff about a grand. Yea thats worth it.

And the new pilot hiring.........you want me to "encourage and welcome" resumes from friends.....hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahah

I Don't think SO...

Oh and you "must say" that your "impressed" with the quality of applicants to date..

Look at your minimums 1500/300 yes thats 300 hrs of seneca time, nice FLOPS nice quality.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Yup.

Oh! Maybe because of the fact that you have admitted that you are (or were) management. (You know. The opposite of unions)

Admission?

I know, I know.. if you work really hard, get your certificates and education, work really hard and become respected by both your peers and superiors to the point of which you become a manager or director that automatically means that you are part of an evil scheme that is only there to bring wrongdoing to all the goodness that unions bring aviation.

In my case I did all the right things and was placed in a position of responsibility because I understood how various componants of flight departments operated.

There is no "admission", it's something that just happened, and I'm content to say that I'm glad it happened. One thing is for sure though, through the roadmap of my career, I have seen things in this business that most haven't, and one of the most disgusting and aggravating things is when unions wreak havok to the inner workings of an otherwise normal carrier such as what is happening right now at Northwest. The safety issues are overwhelming.

You can tell me all the wonderful things that unions have done for you, and I'll equal them with everything unions have taken away from me as a direct result of their greed.

In management, you make efforts to mitigate risk, not add to it. You make every attempt to do what's right and become part of the solution and not part of the problem. Those who let unions speak for them don't have the courage to step into management, they would prefer to stay in the background and get rolled over by the mob mentality of union leadership. Every airline union I've ever seen has placed financial hardship on every carrier I've worked at due to high labor cost and ridiculous work rules. This forces the carrier to find other ways to cut and pay for the contract. Usually it goes to the quality of the non-union support workers, maintenance and internal support... In other words, all the things that make each flight safe everyday.

Admission? Damn right. If you ain't got the nuts to walk in the shoes of management to see what it's like on the other side, don't stand there and throw it out like it's something bad. Those of us that have walked those paths know how hard it is to hit that fine line balancing a CBA with the needs of safety and the financial health of a carrier. Go walk in them... if you dare.

 

[imacdog]

You know B19, a lot of us get handed crap during our careers. The difference is some people will make the best of the situation that was given to them, and people like you become bitter and tell half-truths and outright lies. I guess it's all in how you deal with what life throws your way.

 

[FracMonkey]

Do you really want to go there, Bob?

You mention safety and claim that unions negatively affect it? From what I understand, you and your handlers have refused to recognize the union's committees at FLOPS including the safety committee. So, who does and who doesnt have safety at the top of their agenda. Certainly not top management!

 

[TurboHonda]

B19,

In case you can’t understand why you’re held in such contempt, consider this: Your obvious arrogance in being a senior manager keeps showing itself. On more than one occasion you refer to a “mob mentality”. Rather than recognize the pilots as being united or solidified, you want to refer to us as a mob. So, we’re a mob and you are the elite. Unfortunately, between any two extremes lies the truth.

You talk about ridiculous work rules and balancing a CBA. Are you talking about the FARs? Management’s attempt to circumvent the FARs and run rough-shod over the pilots is what brought the union to your doorstep to begin with.

So, now your job was to stop the union. You failed.

Next your job is to stop a CBA from happening. You’re failing again.

Then, when we get a CBA, your job will be to “balance it with the needs of safety and the financial health of the carrier”. Bull. What you really mean is find ways to evade what is in the contract.

Your reference to “all the things that make each flight safe everyday” expressly excludes the pilots. Are you serious? Are you really of the opinion that a professionally trained, recognized, and compensated flightcrew is not the most controlling part of the safety equation?

 

[fischman]

Admission?

I know, I know.. if you work really hard, get your certificates and education, work really hard and become respected by both your peers and superiors to the point of which you become a manager or director that automatically means that you are part of an evil scheme that is only there to bring wrongdoing to all the goodness that unions bring aviation.

In my case I did all the right things and was placed in a position of responsibility because I understood how various componants of flight departments operated.

There is no "admission", it's something that just happened, and I'm content to say that I'm glad it happened. One thing is for sure though, through the roadmap of my career, I have seen things in this business that most haven't, and one of the most disgusting and aggravating things is when unions wreak havok to the inner workings of an otherwise normal carrier such as what is happening right now at Northwest. The safety issues are overwhelming.

You can tell me all the wonderful things that unions have done for you, and I'll equal them with everything unions have taken away from me as a direct result of their greed.

In management, you make efforts to mitigate risk, not add to it. You make every attempt to do what's right and become part of the solution and not part of the problem. Those who let unions speak for them don't have the courage to step into management, they would prefer to stay in the background and get rolled over by the mob mentality of union leadership. Every airline union I've ever seen has placed financial hardship on every carrier I've worked at due to high labor cost and ridiculous work rules. This forces the carrier to find other ways to cut and pay for the contract. Usually it goes to the quality of the non-union support workers, maintenance and internal support... In other words, all the things that make each flight safe everyday.

Admission? Damn right. If you ain't got the nuts to walk in the shoes of management to see what it's like on the other side, don't stand there and throw it out like it's something bad. Those of us that have walked those paths know how hard it is to hit that fine line balancing a CBA with the needs of safety and the financial health of a carrier. Go walk in them... if you dare.

Become management and spit in the faces of my fellow pilots? No thanks. It takes certain cold-hearted individuals to do that.

I'd rather have the respect of my peers than their contempt. However, being in management, you must be cold-hearted and therefore not care about the respect of your peers.

You have not posted a single thing on these boards to show me you actually care about the pilots on your list. Not one. That is why they want (and need) a union.

 

[dime line]

I want to know how Bob plans to help all of his PSM's that were ASAP'ing on a regular basis.

 

[Phoenix]

FAA head turning

I want to know how Bob plans to help all of his PSM's that were ASAP'ing on a regular basis.

I wonder how long the FAA/our POI is going to ignore all the ASAP reports that point out just how unsafe the attitude of Options managers really is. They have to know that turning a blind eye will make them liable should metal get bent over something that has been repeatedly reported.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Become management and spit in the faces of my fellow pilots? No thanks. It takes certain cold-hearted individuals to do that.

I'd rather have the respect of my peers than their contempt. However, being in management, you must be cold-hearted and therefore not care about the respect of your peers.

You have not posted a single thing on these boards to show me you actually care about the pilots on your list. Not one. That is why they want (and need) a union.

The simple fact that I'm pro-company and anti-union should be enough to prove that I care about the pilots I work with everyday. Becoming management doesn't mean that you are spitting in the face of your fellow pilots or are cold hearted. It means that you are willing to step up to the plate and become part of the solution rather than part of the problem. Bringing a union onto the property doesn't mean that the union has any more power than any talented individual manager without a union. To me, those that hide behind a union are those that are cold hearted. They lack the courage and fortitude to stand up and speak for themselves. The jackels of society.

 

[400pilot]

It means that you are willing to step up to the plate and become part of the solution rather than part of the problem.

Management isn't the solution, management is the problem.

To me, those that hide behind a union are those that are cold hearted.

Yeah, this makes sense..... coming from someone hiding behind an anonymous name on a forum. Also, since the pilots are the union, does this mean we are hiding behind ourselves?

They lack the courage and fortitude to stand up and speak for themselves.

Oh please....this is one of the stupidest things I've heard in awhile. We have been "speaking for ourselves" for years and look where that got us.

The jackels(sp) of society.

Jackals are scavengers, they prey on the weak and defenseless. Kind of like the way management has preyed on the pilot group, who were/are defenseless without a contract.

You know, the more I read this thread, the more I believe that you are not B.T. Why don't you show some of that courage and fortitude you anti-union folks have and reveal your name?

 

[B19 Flyer]

Management isn't the solution, management is the problem.

Yeah, this makes sense..... coming from someone hiding behind an anonymous name on a forum. Also, since the pilots are the union, does this mean we are hiding behind ourselves?

Oh please....this is one of the stupidest things I've heard in awhile. We have been "speaking for ourselves" for years and look where that got us.

Jackals are scavengers, they prey on the weak and defenseless. Kind of like the way management has preyed on the pilot group, who were/are defenseless without a contract.

You know, the more I read this thread, the more I believe that you are not B.T. Why don't you show some of that courage and fortitude you anti-union folks have and reveal your name?

Isn't union leadership nothing but management with power backed by mob mentality? Unions wait until an organization is successful, then feed on it until there isn't anything left. Just like a jackal.

 

[dime line]

Isn't union leadership nothing but management with power backed by mob mentality? Unions wait until an organization is successful, then feed on it until there isn't anything left. Just like a jackal.

So how does your Contract with FLOPS read? What do you get as your umbrella?