ALPA Signs off on Age 65

[pkober]

Thank you Captain Prater. So much for "takin' it back."

Now it's onto "takin' you back" to Continental...

That's awesome. Thanks for the laugh.

 

[BoilerUP]

Meanwhile in other news the ALPA EB defies it membership. Many ALPA members demanded that ALPA adhere to the will of the membership. One ALPA pilot who remained anonymous stated: We demand that ALPA leaves us in the pre deregulation era. We don't want to be progressive. Nor do we want to adapt to the changes. We demand that we stay inside the box. We reject any outside of the box thinking. Even though the industry is radically changing we insist on using old school laws.

So Rez...you seem to be implying that the EB "knew what was best" for ALPA members "despite ourselves" (my words) and made a highly controversial policy decision that runs counter to the will of the majority.

If you were King ALPA & FAA for a day, what "progressive" changes would you make to the retirement age? Please include details and the implementation procedures you would like to see...and I hope you'll stay away from the talking points in the ALPA press release and tell us all honestly what you think would be a reasonable policy.

 

[aussiefly]

ALPA is done...time to burn it down...forget recall, lets disolve the bloody thing and start again.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So Rez...you seem to be implying that the EB "knew what was best" for ALPA members "despite ourselves" (my words) and made a highly controversial policy decision that runs counter to the will of the majority.

I'm sure if polled avg citizens they'd want a 50% cut in taxes. But it isn't going to happen. It is quite fustrating that the avg. ALPA member is, respectfully, stomping thier feet and pouting THE WILL OF THE MEMBERSHIP- THE WILL OF THE MEMBERSHIP!

That is the only arguement they have. They don't want to consider the realities of the situation. Democracy requires responsibility.

In addition, I also realize that the EC and EB is much more informed on the issue and understand the CapHill dynamics of the situation. I don't think they have personal agenda's.

If you were King ALPA & FAA for a day, what "progressive" changes would you make to the retirement age? Please include details and the implementation procedures you would like to see...and I hope you'll stay away from the talking points in the ALPA press release and tell us all honestly what you think would be a reasonable policy.

I would lobby for protections and enhancements to the change. Does it matter if losses from the change are reinstalled in legislation? That is where the meat and potaotes in this is.... the lobbying and legislation. Age65 is going to happen on CapHill... too bad only 14% of us give to ALPA-PAC.


And I'll ask you the same: What would you do if you were Generalissimo and FAA Queen for a day?



In my opinion, AGE 60 is light chop compared to the extreme turbulence of Open Skies.

Many pilots are transfixed on Age60 and are getting quite angry and fustrated. They want to or need to respond to this outrage anyway they can.. so they will not the wear the pin and quit or never give to ALPA-PAC....

Over one issue they will reject ALPA all while the market forces of Open Skies will wipe out their jobs.

Who cares about Age 60 or 65 when our jobs are gone in 5-10 years....

 

[thor2j]

Why do you over 60 crowd keep saying that is the way it is in the rest of the world when that is complete BS. There are many airlines and/or countrys that have 60 or less as their retirement age. KLM/Air France for one, the largest airline in the world by the way......

September 11th cost all of us millions, not just your prescious retiement....What happened to all your money while you were making $200,000/yr for the last ten years??? Not my fault you can control your own finances. Now I have to baby sit u for 5 more years because u need someone of age to fly with you and I have to pay your social security that I will NEVER see!!!

ALPA is the best!

 

[Full of LUV]

What

I'm sure if polled avg citizens they'd want a 50% cut in taxes. But it isn't going to happen. It is quite fustrating that the avg. ALPA member is, respectfully, stomping thier feet and pouting THE WILL OF THE MEMBERSHIP- THE WILL OF THE MEMBERSHIP!

That is the only arguement they have. They don't want to consider the realities of the situation. Democracy requires responsibility.

In addition, I also realize that the EC and EB is much more informed on the issue and understand the CapHill dynamics of the situation. I don't think they have personal agenda's.

Uh yeah, this is why the "blue ribbon panel" was made up of like 9 captains and one FO! I'm sure personal agendas were never considered, even slightly.

In fact, I find it interesting that the leadership is moving to block over 60 that already left from returning, wouldn't want to ruin if for those in charge, just the junior FO's.

 

[bubbers44]

thor

Maybe you should work on your spelling while you are preparing for your baby sitting job. It kind of sucks when the baby can spell better than you do. Just kidding, kind of. You just seem to have little respect for the senior guys.

 

[thor2j]

thor

Maybe you should work on your spelling while you are preparing for your baby sitting job. It kind of sucks when the baby can spell better than you do. Just kidding, kind of. You just seem to have little respect for the senior guys.

It has nothing to do with respect, it has to do with presentation. If you want to claim descrimination, don't settle at 65, still a mandatory age. If you claim no safety issue, don't make someone up there be under 60. If you yell "everybody else does it", get your facts straight because they don't. If you yell about your pension, try my social security and my lost wages from 9/11.

Oh yeah, as for your spelling, F$#@$U!

 

[bubbers44]

descrimination, Couldn't find this word in the dictionary either.

 

[thor2j]

descrimination, Couldn't find this word in the dictionary either.

Once again the older crowd can not argue with true facts, just have to mumble something to be heard (like spelling, much more important).....try turning up your hearing aid!

 

[thor2j]

descrimination, Couldn't find this word in the dictionary either.

Oh yeah, what the hell is a dictionary???? i know what spell check is I just didn't use it. Wrong generation old man!!

 

[bubbers44]

Anger management courses are available if that is the issue. Most senior pilots are not ready for the retirement farm, as you think, but it is pretty much out of our hands now so just calm down a bit to avoid an overtemp.

 

[thor2j]

Not as much anger as much as utter disapointment in ALPA. They once again only look to self satisfy. I just have to come to the realization that 2% of my money is completely flushed away for no use what so ever.

 

[d328pilot]

And I'll ask you the same: What would you do if you were Generalissimo and FAA Queen for a day?

1. Make pilots that want to work over age 60 move back into the right seat. That way they preserve the career expetations of the junior pilots (majority) and at the same time allow them to still work. That seems to be a pretty good compromise.

2. Instead of having pilots wake up and read the sudden change in policy on the ALPA message board, get my "blue ribbon panel" out to educate the members as to why there needs to be a change in policy, then change it. Not just "we know what is best for you." If they are so sure it is what is best, they should be able to convince the memebership of it. Spend the money on education, not worthless poll after poll.

3. Term limits on ALPA officers...no more career politician. I would like to have a pilot actually run the union. (how many alpa presidents have ever gone back to the line when they leave office??) my guess is 0.

4. Make MECs enforce the contracts. If they dont, then there should be consequences. Maybe a few fines for actions would help to motivate the troops. Right now it sure doesnt seem that this union has any teeth.

5. I would end the union's blind support of the democratic party. I would end any contribution until they can answer "what have you done for us". You help us, we give you money. period...

6. Oh...and tell the us air guys that if you want binding arbitration, then dont agree to it....

Thats my short list..in order

 

[Furloughed80]

Is the CAL MEC pushing for waivers for pilots that will reach 60 before the rule is changed?

 

[Freight Dog]

Rez... here is one simple question for you:

If Open Skies and Cabotage become imminent (Congress is for it, the White House is for it, the FAA is for it), how is ALPA going to handle that?

OK, for a minute, let's assume we have 100% membership contribution to ALPA-PAC. Even with that kind of participation, do you think we could go head to head with the big business lobby? Highly unlikely...

ALPA is growing more and more irrelevant and outdated by the day.

 

[BoilerUP]

Thank you d328 for specifics...that's what I was hoping to get out of Rez.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

1. Make pilots that want to work over age 60 move back into the right seat. That way they preserve the career expetations of the junior pilots (majority) and at the same time allow them to still work. That seems to be a pretty good compromise.

ok. Then what about the guys that are 61-64. Can they come back? How are you going to do this?

2. Instead of having pilots wake up and read the sudden change in policy on the ALPA message board, get my "blue ribbon panel" out to educate the members as to why there needs to be a change in policy, then change it. Not just "we know what is best for you." If they are so sure it is what is best, they should be able to convince the memebership of it. Spend the money on education, not worthless poll after poll.

I think most of the ALPA pilots of the EB don't want the change either. They just realize they know its coming. Look at it this way, you know you are going to get screwed, ALPA is just trying to get them (FAA) to use a condom.

3. Term limits on ALPA officers...no more career politician. I would like to have a pilot actually run the union. (how many alpa presidents have ever gone back to the line when they leave office??) my guess is 0.

Please. This shows your disconnect. What does this have to do with age60 anyway? It is not that the democratic model is broken it is just that the member pilots don't practice democracy.

4. Make MECs enforce the contracts. If they dont, then there should be consequences. Maybe a few fines for actions would help to motivate the troops. Right now it sure doesnt seem that this union has any teeth.

I don't know where to begin. This is like putting a financial penalty on your self for paying bills late or getting a speeding ticket. What fund will the fines be paid from?

Why do you think the union doesn't have teeth. Who gave you the expectation that the union does have teeth? YOU? the cynical jackass you flew with after IOE?

Look, man, you and most pilots think unions should be stronger.. Go to Europe! There is a reason FedEx can't set up shop in Paris! One of the reasons why unions aren't as strong as you'd like them to be is because our members poltically vote against their career. Being a right wing capital-free marketist forces kinda of airline pilot doesn't work! In addition, pilots treat union leaders like fire and forget missiles. ALPA is not a self cleaning oven.

5. I would end the union's blind support of the democratic party. I would end any contribution until they can answer "what have you done for us". You help us, we give you money. period...

And here it is... I didn't read your number five while a I was responding to your number four.

ALPA doesn't blindly support the Dems. The AFL-CIO might, but ALPA doesn't. Perhaps you need to get more involved in your council. ALPA is engaged with the politicans that help pilots.


When you land do you stand on the jetbridge and say "I just saved your life, we had an emergency, but I averted disaster! Enjoy your life" And ALPA doesn't do the same when it stops legislation or makes a political gain for its members.

6. Oh...and tell the us air guys that if you want binding arbitration, then dont agree to it....

What does this have to do with age60?

Thats my short list..in order

Did you ever hear a pilot at your flight school or someone in the squadron talk about going to the airlines and saying.. 'I hope I am politically effective as an airline pilot.' But you hear guys talking about flying jets, making good money and good QOL. The question is HOW! How do you get good pay and QOL? Politics. So shouldn't every pilot be politically effective?

The answer to your short list is to become a better member. Nothing will get better until the collective membership gets more effective and more involved. Most of the memberships issues are unfounded and misinformed. so they spend time and energy getting fustrated only to reject unions believing they are fubar. So where does that leave us...??

Thank you d328 for specifics...that's what I was hoping to get out of Rez.

I wouldn't do that to you.....

 

[Huck]

Everybody turn around and look at the FFDO program.

That was the high water mark for ALPA. It cratered after that.

It's time for the new world order, boys. Figure out your place in it. Prater et al just drove organized labor in the airlines over a cliff. May they choke on their last 5 years of pay....

Personally I think the future will be in corporate. Airline flying will go the way of the merchant marine. But Taiwanese pilots may not be attractive to your average King Aire owner.

 

[Flopgut]

Rez:

You have no idea how painful it is getting to read your ramblings. I don't dislike you, but you're a nut.

Union work needs to be conducted in a simple and deliberate manner. It is possible to be/act too smart for union work to be effective. They [union leasdership] must do what their members tell them to do. In the absence of that, inspire the membership via leadership to a new vision. Under NO circumstances do you ignore an accurate survey, taint a second survey (and then not even allow it to run it's course), and then unilaterally decide for the membership! When that happens the union becomes non functional.

All this fundamental stuff you're bogged down in is of no use anymore. The time has come to talk about our CBAs and how we're going to fold these new pilots in if thie does change. We can set this straight through our work agreements for everyones benefit.