ALPA Signs off on Age 65

[d328pilot]

hell, while they are at it, why not make it 70. 5 years from now they will be screaming again because they bought another airplane or got another wife or whatever

 

[flyer172r]

1. Make pilots that want to work over age 60 move back into the right seat. That way they preserve the career expetations of the junior pilots (majority) and at the same time allow them to still work. That seems to be a pretty good compromise.

Good compromise for major airline FOs, but does absolutely nothing for current regional captains. Those over-60 pilots would be taking the FO slots that would have been filled with current RJ captains. So 5 more years at crappy regionals for those guys.

 

[Flopgut]

Good compromise for major airline FOs, but does absolutely nothing for current regional captains. Those over-60 pilots would be taking the FO slots that would have been filled with current RJ captains. So 5 more years at crappy regionals for those guys.

You're right. But, it does make it more of a decision for these guys. For instance at CAL these guys will have to choose between taking their lump sum and not working, or coming to work for the wage and benefit. If we make these guys take copilot pay it closes the gap significantly and although these guys aren't too bright, even most of them will see the wisdom in retiring. Taking the lump sum and staying at home will be more appealing if they see their pay shrink. I think that would be the case at a lot of airlines and it's one of the best ways I can see to preserve age 60 as a vialble retirement age, which is what ALPA says they want to do. In addition, you've got a large number of guys who only want to do it because their egos are so swollen. Put em in the right seat and I think you'll find out they no longer want to do it.

Right now they are looking at big dollars (and thinking about new houses and boats) and nothing else. Temper their hourly wages and they'll want to leave. That will be good for everyone,including guys at regionals.

 

[Widow's Son]

Change was inevitable. In fact, it was already set in place with the ICAO and Canadian changes. It will be better for ALPA pilots to be a part of the process rather than just fall on their swords. APA will come to that conclusion as well.
What the young guys don't realize is that the battle against change preempted any discussion on ways to mitigate the impact of change. Now that reality of change is taken off the table, we can begin those discussions, but if the young guys just want to disengage and fold the tent in disgust, then fine, it will be their loss.

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

What the young guys don't realize is that the battle against change preempted any discussion on ways to mitigate the impact of change.

Now that reality of change is taken off the table, we can begin those discussions, but if the young guys just want to disengage and fold the tent in disgust, then fine, it will be their loss.

Since you opened up the discussion, I’m interested – What exactly is your side willing to give up to “mitigate the impact of change?”

With your statement above, you do indicate a realization that many of us will suffer economic loss and damages by any change in the retirement age.

AA767AV8TOR

 

[Black Hawk]

Adding a couple years and pay increases to the top of the FO payscale would be a reasonable start. Or better yet FO's at the top of the list equal to the number of age 60+ Captain's upgrade, receive Captain's pay and work as FO's or CA's as needed. No delayed upgrade or loss of pay.

 

[filejw]

Just heads up for couple of you guys who mentioned putting over sixty's into the right seat.In most states and the Federal government have existing age discrimination law that would prevent that.

 

[Freight Dog]

Just heads up for couple of you guys who mentioned putting over sixty's into the right seat.In most states and the Federal government have existing age discrimination law that would prevent that.

You mean the ICAO rule is discriminatory? Why can only 1 pilot be over 60? Isn't that along the same lines?

 

[PCL_128]

Why bother to poll the membership if you disregard it anyway??

That's the most important question. Rez's answer was less than satisfactory, to put it lightly. We've now conducted multiple polls on this subject. Each one of these polls concluded that a majority favored the current policy, and the President, EC, and the EB have completely ignored the will of the membership. Simply deplorable.

 

[d328pilot]

Just heads up for couple of you guys who mentioned putting over sixty's into the right seat.In most states and the Federal government have existing age discrimination law that would prevent that.

what about the new rule that says you will have to retire at 65? or the rule that says you have to be 23 to get an ATP? or 21 to drink? That would hardly be setting new precident if they made them go to the right seat. But thats the problem....They want 5 more years at the top, and its ok that it is at our expense.

 

[filejw]

All I'm saying is you can't discriminate against anybody over 40 by law because of age. The union or company couldn't make anybody downgrade at 60 as some have suggested cause of age if the 65 thing goes thru.. It has nothing to do with ICAO or anything else as its present day law and is not specific to airlines.Please don't shoot the messenger.

 

[Heavy Set]

All I'm saying is you can't discriminate against anybody over 40 by law because of age. The union or company couldn't make anybody downgrade at 60 as some have suggested cause of age if the 65 thing goes thru.. It has nothing to do with ICAO or anything else as its present day law and is not specific to airlines.Please don't shoot the messenger.

I remember Gen Lee bringing up the point that firemen and policemen have to retire at 55, and that is why the Supreme Court ruled against a group of Southwest pilots that tried to get the rule changed earlier. The Court didn't want to change the rule then because they would have to allow firemen and policemen to work longer, endangering lives possibly. Only Congress could legally change this rule, and so far they haven't done it for the policemen or firemen, but may do it now for the pilots. I think you are wrong, and you can shoot the messenger. Also, pilots in Britian go to the right seat at age 60 for two years.

 

[filejw]

Heavy,Thats my point once the FAA changes to 65 you can't discriminate, union or companies.As for Britain as of Nov 2006 its 65 although I don't know if they have the same discrimination laws we do so a union contract may prevent over 60 flying .I don't think my lady / lawyer friend knows English law but I'll ask her in the AM.

 

[Full of LUV]

Heavy,Thats my point once the FAA changes to 65 you can't discriminate, union or companies.As for Britain as of Nov 2006 its 65 although I don't know if they have the same discrimination laws we do so a union contract may prevent over 60 flying .I don't think my lady / lawyer friend knows English law but I'll ask her in the AM.

File,
How is it discrimination if its in a negotiated contract between the company and pilots themselves. I could see if it was imposed without consent, but isn't the union contract implied consent.

 

[filejw]

Luv,I'm pretty sure you can't negotiate a contract that is against a labor law.