ALPA Signs off on Age 65

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So by using that logic, the US has never had a legitimate elected leader.

Wrong......again.

ALPA as well currently has LEC elections. Avg. participation is about 30%. As a member of a democratic society would you like to see minority or majority voter participation rates?

Well we can agree this is a problem. But its not up to the individual members to fix it. If pilots dont know who their reps are or dont know the contract, then that is a failure of the leadership. From the LEC all the way up to the top. People will be involved if they feel that they are valued.

This blows my mind. I just don't get it. Is it also the leaderships responsibility to make sure the membership votes?

It is the members and leaders responsbility. A pilot not accepting responsbility? I don't get it... Good God man... according to your logic what responsbilities does the membership have?

I have never been to a meeting where the above takes place. Even if it does, at least they are there. They are not getting paid to attend a meeting and if they have to use the time to get other things done, then so be it. Most guys have lots of responsibilites they have to juggle. Do you expect a guy to drive 30 minutes from home on one of his 2 days off that he could be spending with his kids if he feels that the organization doesnt value his opinion? Until there is a change in the type of leadership, participation will continue to decline. Again, a FAILURE of leadership, not a member problem.

Who's responsbility is it to change the leadership. If you don't go to a meeting then how do you know who a good leader is and is not.

30mins on two days off.... yeah how about that... but you expect your ALPA volunteers to do exactly that when you have a problem. If you have to see the CP you expect your ALPA rep to dive 30m on his two days off. When your schedules suck you expect your ALPA rep to drive 30m on her two days off to make the scheds more commutable with more days off.

What repsonsibilites does the membership have....???????

You got ALPA volunteers giving up free time on a weekly basis and you can't even show up once a quarter!!!

And show UP!!!! Tell the leadership that you are an unsatisfied customer. tell them that ALPA is not user friendly... but take some repsonsibility for your OWN CAREER!

Again, a LEADERSHIP failure. Did your leadership attempt to help or explain how resolutions work? Telling people to go out and read Robert's rules, the constitution and the bylaws is like telling a voter to go out and read the constitution. They are not going to do it. Its legaleze and boring. The leadership should find a way to make this information streamlined and more user friendly.

Fine. HOW. I guess they should give up more of their free time.

You can't read? You can't navigate a website. You can't call your reps and say: How do I do a resolution. Unions are resources not a service.

When are you going to take repsonsibility for YOUR CAREER?

There are other unions that are effective and they dont require double digit dues. ALPA is a problem that will not be fixed by throwing money at it.

Believe it or not... ALPA is one of the most effective unions out there. But ALPA's problems will not be fixed by money. It will be fixed by guys like you getting off the union welfare mentality and taking responsibility for YOUR CAREER.

As I said before, ALPA members feel that the association does not value their input. Until that changes, no one will increase involvement. ALPA suffers from a sever lack of LEADERSHIP. It really is just that simple.

What input? When I was an elected rep I asked for it and got zero replies. The only time guys cared is when they were directly effected as an individual! ALPA members have almost zero collective concern.

What input? You mean the minority input.

30% LEC voter particpation.
5% LEC meeting attendance
14% ALPA-PAC particaption

I'll tell you the leadership is tired of guys like you that refuse to accept responsbility for THEIR CAREER. They are tired of guys who think that because they pay dues they are experts at union politics. They are tired of guys who refuse to read and inform themsleves, sucking in crewroom gossip, only to have to unbuild thier minconceptions and rebuild the truth. The leadership is tired of pulling the weight.

If the leadership sucks..then go to a meeting and get new leaders! Either way it is going to take an increased level of particaption of your apathetic attitude. After all it is YOUR CAREER.

If the ALPA leadership sucks then why do let them manage your career? In other words... what repsonsbilities do you have for YOUR CAREER.

 

[d328pilot]

If the ALPA leadership sucks then why do let them manage your career? In other words... what repsonsbilities do you have for YOUR CAREER.

I dont anymore. Thankfully I am no longer at an ALPA carrier. I was hardly apathetic to the cause. While I was an elected rep (for more than half of my time at my old employer), I did my best to try to help inform and explain things to the pilots in my local. And since I took the time as a leader to do that, participation went up. I was up front with them and realistic with what could and could not be done. I didnt waste time or money on a poll that I wasnt going to listen to anyway.

The members definately have a responsibility to be informed and educated. Unions are very foreign to most people when they first enter the airline world. What do most MECs do to educate the members on the inner workings of the RLA and the Grievance procedure? Did you expect them to go get a copy of the RLA and be able to understand it? Did you have any kind of literature that helped explain it?

So Rez, how should a new ALPA member learn about the RLA and Grievances? From what you say, they should pick up a copy of the RLA and read it cover to cover. Does ALPA offer a guide to the RLA for Airline Pilots? Nope.... Why Not? Would that not help guys learn the process?

Does your MEC have a published guideline to filing grievances or are they just supposed to "know" about it. Why should you have to call an LEC rep? Why is there nothing on paper to guide the pilot? Should a member call his rep and ask questions? Absolutely. Should the LEC have a responsibility to try to assist in his education? Absolutely. Do most LECs? Absolutely not.

Patton's soldiers didnt march across N. Africa and Europe because they were pissed off. They did it because they had a leader that motivated them.

A football team wont win just because they want to. They have to have coaches to teach them fundamentals and guide them.

Effective Leadership is key to any organization and ALPA doesnt have it.

 

[Swaayze]

The Executive Board is made up of MEC Chairmen, not the ALPA officers elected to serve in National positions.

Actually the national officers ARE ex-officio members of the EB.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I dont anymore. Thankfully I am no longer at an ALPA carrier. I was hardly apathetic to the cause. While I was an elected rep (for more than half of my time at my old employer), I did my best to try to help inform and explain things to the pilots in my local. And since I took the time as a leader to do that, participation went up. I was up front with them and realistic with what could and could not be done. I didnt waste time or money on a poll that I wasnt going to listen to anyway.

So was it a mistake that you lead?

The members definately have a responsibility to be informed and educated. Unions are very foreign to most people when they first enter the airline world. What do most MECs do to educate the members on the inner workings of the RLA and the Grievance procedure? Did you expect them to go get a copy of the RLA and be able to understand it? Did you have any kind of literature that helped explain it?

This is a big problem. MEC's have a short time frame 30-90mins to educate new hire pilots about representation. All while they are focused on co-opperate graduate. By the time then get done with IOE they can't remember what ALPA stands for... then you get Capt. Cynical who finishes his/her ALPA "education"....

So Rez, how should a new ALPA member learn about the RLA and Grievances? From what you say, they should pick up a copy of the RLA and read it cover to cover. Does ALPA offer a guide to the RLA for Airline Pilots? Nope.... Why Not? Would that not help guys learn the process?

As I said.. a problem. Some MEC's have better documents than others... why is that? Shouldn't there be a standard and complete document for all new hires? (hint: it is in the works)

But at what point should a member go from sheep to sheep dog. In our society we use the age of 18.

Does your MEC have a published guideline to filing grievances or are they just supposed to "know" about it. Why should you have to call an LEC rep? Why is there nothing on paper to guide the pilot? Should a member call his rep and ask questions? Absolutely. Should the LEC have a responsibility to try to assist in his education? Absolutely. Do most LECs? Absolutely not.

Thus, the quandry of a volunteer army.

Patton's soldiers didnt march across N. Africa and Europe because they were pissed off. They did it because they had a leader that motivated them.

Riiiight... cause getting shot for desertion wasn't a factor.

A football team wont win just because they want to. They have to have coaches to teach them fundamentals and guide them.

Please. Coaches don't win football games. Teams win games. Players don't win games. Teams win games...

Effective Leadership is key to any organization and ALPA doesnt have it.

There is no substitute for leadership. But a leader needs followers to lead. There can be no leadership without members or followers. It takes two, just like any relationship. The thing of it is.....is this is YOUR CAREER. When are ALPA members going to take responsibility for thier own careers. I just find it amazing that pilots are willing to ignorantly, blindly, apatheticly hand over the reigns of thier career? Everyone hates ALPA so much but they choose to remain powerless, especially when the controls are within easy reach.

ALPA Member Particaption Rates

• 30% LEC Election
• 14% ALPA-PAC
• 30% Age 60 Survey I & II
• 5% LEC Attendance

It is your career.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

2x post

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

APA INFORMATION HOTLINE


This is APA Communications Committee Chairman Captain Denny Breslin with the APA Information Hotline for Wednesday, June 6.

AIRLINE PILOT NEGOTIATING ROUNDTABLE CONCLUDES: APA’s National Officers and key Negotiating Committee members wrapped up the final day of the Collective Bargaining Roundtable in Dallas today with a discussion of negotiating goals, pilot fatigue and ramifications of a change in pilot retirement age. Airline pilot union officials from across North America, including the Allied Pilots Association, Southwest Airlines Pilots’ Association, Air Line Pilots Association, Independent Pilots Association, Teamsters and Canadian Airline Pilots Association, gathered for the meeting co-hosted by APA and SWAPA.

In a press briefing arranged by APA Communications, APA President Captain Hunter said stagnation is the chief concern among our junior pilots with changing the age 60 rule. He noted that many of our first officers have been copilots going on 17 years and that the contract must be structured to account for the inordinate amount of time pilots have had to wait for advancement in pay that goes with promotion to captain.

ALPA President Captain John Prater noted that all airlines have cut staffing, which has forced pilots to fly more. Those staff cuts, combined with the need to work more to replace lost wages, has resulted in increased pilot fatigue.

The two-day conference allowed each of the airline representatives to update the status of their negotiations and to engage in discussions aimed primarily at raising the negotiating bar and returning airline pilots to their pre-bankruptcy pay and work rules. While there were striking similarities in the problems faced by each of the individual airlines, Delta MEC Chairman Captain Lee Moak said pilots should place blame for devastated pay, work rules and pensions where it belongs—on bad airline management. Captain Prater emphasized that management was playing with fire if they refused to restore pilot wages.

There were additional discussions about pension plan protection, strategies to mitigate the destructive effects of Section 1113 of the Bankruptcy Code “Rejection of Collective Bargaining Agreements” on the right to self-help granted by the Railway Labor Act, and how communication and cooperation between the unions increases the chance of recapturing lost work rules and restoring pay for all pilots.