Pinnacle Buying Colgan

[LanceAir]

one time a hired a monkey to take for me in class. I would just sit there with my mind a complete blank while the monkey scribbled on little pieces of paper. At the end of the week, teacher says "class, I want you to write a paper using your notes". So I wrote a paper saying "hello! My name is Bingo. I like to climb on things. Can I have a banana? eek eek." I got an F. When I told my mom about it, she said "I told you never trust a monkey!". The end.

I almost feel stupid for responding to this....:erm:

Is that your metaphor for ALPA?

 

[i fly boxes]

According to both Phil Tranery and Mike Colgan, Colgan will be used for turboprops and all new turboprops that could be won, while Pinnacle will remain the growth platform for new jet aircraft and larger jet aircraft which "he is confident we will aquire". IF and this is a huge IF, they stick to their word, this is a very smart business decision and both pilot groups would be ok.
If he is not a man of his word, which as we have seen in the past, than it could get ugly. Basically Colgan could become a negotiating tool against the pinnacle pilots. It doesn't matter though becuase of our attrition, we will all still upgrade within 3 years.

I don't see phil taking away planes from pinnacle after hearing this webcast. I do see him growing colgan, but not at pinnacle's demise. He built this airline from the ground up and he is not going to destroy it.

Look for Colgan to fly the Q400 by the end of the year.

 

[Lear70]

I almost feel stupid for responding to this....:erm:

Is that your metaphor for ALPA?

You're not alone.

I feel stupid for reading the whole thing expecting there to be a point.

Fly4Hire I have a scenario for you to consider,,,

and it's ugly:

The section you quoted is absolutely correct, but look VERY closely at the EXACT wording of the language. It doesn't say Pinnacle Airlines Inc, or Pinnacle Airlines Corp, just "Pinnacle Airlines" which, in legalese, could be construed to mean THE HOLDING COMPANY.

So what's to keep Pinnacle Airlines CORP (the holding company) from shuffling some of them over to Colgan? They'd still be operated by Pinnacle Airlines (the holding company), still be painted the same colors, still fly on Northwest routes, just with different pilots.

I bet you a C-note that Northwest wouldn't care, as long as they weren't operating for any other carrier's codeshare and, in this scenario, they wouldn't.

The ONLY thing that stops it is the Scope language in the Pinnacle contract and, again you have a legalese issue: what EXACTLY does "Operated by Pinnacle Airlines" mean? Is it the airline, or the holding company that is referenced in the contract?

Could an effective argument be made by the company that the contract was written between ALPA and Pinnacle Airlines, INC (the operating company) and, since the aircraft NEVER WERE leased to anyone EXCEPT the HOLDING company and now they're operated under a completely separate Certificate, operating offices, dispatch, mx, etc, it's not the same airline that ALPA signed with?

That's what I'm talking about when I say that I think this is what PT is going to try... and he might very well be successful. If so, times are about to get VERY tough at PCL and the Colgan pilots who are hired to fly these aircraft when they're transferred over will become the target of a VERY pissed off group of PCL pilots.

Welcome to the whipsaw.

 

[Sticky]

LOL! Just a joke for those who may remember Space Ghost Coast to Coast. My avatar is Brak from cartoon planet. He usually just had stupid things to say during times of conflict.

 

[rhino3040]

Here is 10 mill CASH!!!

 

[bizicmo]

Does this start the wave of consolidation? Will this cause Delta to accept USAir's bid? I guess only the future will tell.

 

[SELCAL checks]

Does this start the wave of consolidation? Will this cause Delta to accept USAir's bid? I guess only the future will tell.

Oh yes, the ripple effect can be felt throughout the industry. Can you feel it? Oh wait, that was just the crumbs from my sandwich falling on the floor.

 

[n32jk]

Our current proposal is $50 million more than the company's current proposal (which is basically current book with less scope).

Talked to Tom P yesterday, before all this. I get the feeling that the union proposal will be costing MORE than 50 mil now......

 

[n32jk]

LOL! Just a joke for those who may remember Space Ghost Coast to Coast. My avatar is Brak from cartoon planet. He usually just had stupid things to say during times of conflict.

Sounds like the CEO of PCL

 

[rhino3040]

And 10 mill later!!!

 

[greedypilot]

Good thing Wiskey bought their flying or they'd be in a real pickle.. maybe they should to buy someone.. or just fade and dwindle in the background

 

[n32jk]

does this mean Colgan is the new whipping boy of flightinfo.com?

No this means that Colgan pilots need to get the protection of ALPA on their property ASAP. Now I have heard a lot of ALPA bashing on the skywest arena. Frankly, it is BS. I have been involved with the association for 20 years as an organizer and committee member. They have the finest professional staff and labor/operations attorneys and engineers in the world. I have heard praise for ALPA professionalism from everywhere from NTSB members (a great ALPA safety volunteer is now on the board) to world class labor attorneys and the like. Only bad things I have heard about ALPA came from FAA attorneys and Ford and Harrison attorneys who LOST.....

The talk here is how the PCL pilots will get screwed. It is the Colgan pilots who stand the greatest chance of getting screwed in a whipsaw. The PCL management is drooling over the imposed contracts at the majors. They want to do as they will without any regard to contractual obligations. They are both bold enough and stupid enough to try to abrogate the PCL agreement and replace them.

BOLD and STUPID is a scary combination. If they try this with Colgan as a non union work group, the Colgan boys could find themselves in the middle of the biggest labor war of the industry. WITH NOTHING TO PROTECT THEM FROM PERFORMING STRUCK WORK Not a great place to be.

For the Colgan pilots, you are now a wholly owned subsidiary of SATAN !! Please protect yourselves appropriately.

If you are a Colgan pilot, please read my post and give it some serious thought. You need help not getting caught in the middle of a battle that you did not choose.

 

[greedypilot]

... so is my training contract void or not? I'm guessing not, at least for now I suppose

:uzi: Colgan

 

[V1cutsrfun]

No this means that Colgan pilots need to get the protection of ALPA on their property ASAP. Now I have heard a lot of ALPA bashing on the skywest arena. Frankly, it is BS. I have been involved with the association for 20 years as an organizer and committee member. They have the finest professional staff and labor/operations attorneys and engineers in the world. I have heard praise for ALPA professionalism from everywhere from NTSB members (a great ALPA safety volunteer is now on the board) to world class labor attorneys and the like. Only bad things I have heard about ALPA came from FAA attorneys and Ford and Harrison attorneys who LOST.....

The talk here is how the PCL pilots will get screwed. It is the Colgan pilots who stand the greatest chance of getting screwed in a whipsaw. The PCL management is drooling over the imposed contracts at the majors. They want to do as they will without any regard to contractual obligations. They are both bold enough and stupid enough to try to abrogate the PCL agreement and replace them.

BOLD and STUPID is a scary combination. If they try this with Colgan as a non union work group, the Colgan boys could find themselves in the middle of the biggest labor war of the industry. WITH NOTHING TO PROTECT THEM FROM PERFORMING STRUCK WORK Not a great place to be.

For the Colgan pilots, you are now a wholly owned subsidiary of SATAN !! Please protect yourselves appropriately.

If you are a Colgan pilot, please read my post and give it some serious thought. You need help not getting caught in the middle of a battle that you did not choose.

Bingo!!!

 

[TNHillbilly]

This blows.

 

[AC560]

No this means that Colgan pilots need to get the protection of ALPA on their property ASAP.

Worked for TWA

 

[dingo222]

struck work?????????? I agree with what you are saying, but dont get ahead of yourself. Colgan wont be flying pcl routes with the saabs anytime soon, and we arent rated on the rj.

 

[n32jk]

Worked for TWA

Different unions...makes a difference

 

[GreenFolder]

....is Leroy in danger? Where should donations be sent?

 

[n32jk]

struck work?????????? I agree with what you are saying, but dont get ahead of yourself. Colgan wont be flying pcl routes with the saabs anytime soon, and we arent rated on the rj.

Please read the post in the context of what the whipsaw could become.....
My post was not flamebait (although I am certain it will become such)

If anyone at Colgan wants information/help on how to safely begin an organizing effort give me a private message and I will direct you the right places.......