AA may not merge with anyone?

[Mach8Forest]

WOW is correct. Do they really not know how the rest of the industry views them? They must get a lobotomy and a set of blinders I believe when they go through initial in Berlin.
Mach8Forest

 

[ils2minimums]

Yes I did not use the spell checker, now care to talk about the facts SCAB.
Mach8

Which facts would those be, dou(hebag? You asked a typical smartass question about whether or not I was given an IQ test, and I gave you a typical smartass answer... As to any other facts, we're gonna have different views on those, both skewed to our favor by our individual experiences...

Fact is, you've not contributed anything but vitriol in any AA discussion and I've returned the kindness...

You hate us, big f'ing deal...

 

[Mach8Forest]

I think Hate is way too kind of a word. Here is a repost for educational purposes. We will fight on to right your wrong. The justice system is not perfect, hell look at OJ. In fact now that I think about it he would be a great spokesman for the APA.​

The posts by some of you arrogant APA/AA guys are incredible. You now want to talk about UNITY?You are the Bean Counters dream of Unionism. Ready, Able, and Willing SCABS at their finest. Oh you did not cross a picket line but you stole the jobs of a unionized pilot group that were not yours. This is worse than a SCAB in my book. Your group is not a union at all but just simply a special interest group that spreads miss information among its masses in order to justify its wrongs. Then its repeated like a parrot by some idiot. Can you answer this? When should a true union use corporate finances as a weapon to strip someone else of their careers to better their own? NEVER! Lucky for you that safety records or TWA’s past merger policy was not the vehicle of our seniority.
This merger reminded me of something I witnessed in 1989 pushing back in an L1011 at JFK bound for Lisbon. Seagulls on top of our Jetway attacked a pigeon as we were pushing back. The pigeon appeared to have been killed as it lay on its side bleeding as we were starting the engines. I asked the captain I was flying with what was that all about. He believed that the seagulls were sick of competing for food and decidedcollectively to kill this pigeon.
National Unity = APA should have taken pilots when they took TWA’s London Routes as United did with PA but they did not.
Career Expectations = In the 80’s when I was hired TWA at that time carried more people to London than AA did to the whole continent of Europe. We were stapled behind some of your pilots that were working on their private pilots license when we were flying (on Property) to cities such as London, Paris, Lisbon, and Athens.
Reality = AA could not grow internally fast enough to compete so they had to purchase someone to be the biggest.
THE REASON. = A decade plus later and with the ego threat of not being the biggest Airline against United, AA went into action. But how could they do it cleanly and without Icahn getting into AA.
Setting the Stage = How did TWA go Bankrupt when it entered that winter with more cash than it had in 7 prior years? Every other Airline was making some money at the time and TWA although not on par had proportionally similar trends? Why did cash strapped TWA spend over 80 million pulling out of European city pairs and paying heavy employee severance fines and penalties? Wasn’t Cash Critical? DUH!
Berlin was conducting the Orchestra and directing the play long before the curtain opened.
WHY TWA? =Lets think about this for a moment with some reason. Here sits TWA, an East/ West flow airline with a big hub (STL) sandwiched between AA’s two Major East/ West flow hubs (DFW, ORD) and was hurting AA East/West yields. TWA also had over a hundred east coast landing slots (88 in NY) with facilities, Hangers, and gates on both coasts. Their reservation system was worth millions on the market. After the demise of Eastern and Pan Am, AA enjoyed virtually no competition on very high yield routes in the Caribbean. Here sits TWA again as they were developing and growing a SJU mini Hub. They became the only future hub threat in the Caribbean with over 60 flights per day and growing out of SJU. I knew when they delayed the start of our MIA – SJU flights something smelled badly. TWA also had Route authority’s beyond imagination for an expanding AA airline.
Our Past Merger = As far as the Ozark merger is concerned only one guy in any merger believes he did not get screwed and he is number one. The rest feel that even with a date of hire scenario with fences like the TWA/OZ merger that they somehow lost something. I have friends on both sides of the fence. I can tell you that when I was an engineer in NY on the L1011 some of my favorite Captains including the number one man on that equipment were Green (OZ).
The Future = Mergers with lopsided past hiring dates create additional problems among pilots and their ego’s of who should get what. AA and Reno Air is a good example as they were a young airline bought by an older seniority. The real test for the industry will be the AWA and USAIR outcomeor when the regionals start to merge.
We Could have had Unity. AA and TWA’s pilot seniority hiring dates and seats were super close as 1989 hires were checking out as captains at both carriers. There was no need for the slaughter of our livelihoods other than greed and insecurity. A 5+ year or more fence or the Tannen proposal would have sufficed. Before the AA purchase, TWA pilots had East and West coast domiciles. After the AA purchase Berlin shoved us all into STL so AA pilots could have all the International, Transcons + Caribbean. t.
Past Precedent = Correct me if I am wrong but didn’t Nashville Eagle (APA) give bankrupt Air Virginia (ALPA) pilots date of hire with fences in an exact buyout scenario?
Unity ?????? = Look in the rear view mirror my AA friends and remember the words APA used during the slashing of our livelihoods and families well being. This industries fate is still unpredictable. There is no corporate crystal ball in this industry. You allowed radicals who applied ignorant self-serving beliefs for their own advantage to lead you. Now you want us to get over it and talk about Unity. You have damaged this occupation beyond repair. The APA should have led by example by doing the right thing. Sit back now and watch other carriers pilots and the regionals emulate you. These carriers’ bean counters will use their pilot’s greed as a weapon like AA did to keep this profession destabilized. True security and a National Union is only a dream with the likes of you. See you on the Picket line I hope.
Mach8

​

 

[AA717driver]

Is there a moderator in the house? TC

 

[Draginass]

Hopefully Arpey has learned his lesson and AA will not repeat the buffonery of the past by buying airlines, squandering a load of money, then shutting them down, keeping the employees and forcing a seniority fist-fight.

This is no good for anyone. TWA should have been left alone to sink or swim by it's own devices. If it sank, then AA could compete for the divested assets that made sense to own.

Right after the announcement, you could hear the champaign corks popping in St Louis, but I remember the somber sense of "hear we go again" in the AA crew rooms. The old timer's at AA knew what they were talking about.

 

[Mach8Forest]

Right after the announcement, you could hear the champaign corks popping in St Louis
Maybe Compton opened and popped the Champaign corks because of their Golden P's but the employees did not celebrate. We were preparing for the AWA merger as we had signed on for our first Domestic Code share.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YayAONi07s0.

 

[XTW]

Where's my beer Mach8 ?


X

 

[Mach8Forest]

Hello XTW,
I have your beer waiting in Orlando. A lot cheaper than Paris where I incurred this Debt. Paris France you AAholes not Paris Texas or Kentucky. I incurred this debt while you senior to me AAholes were popping your zits and thinking about furthering your Career expectations for your private license.
Mach8
Remember this XTW I am in it with expectations!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LekiIzlHEds

 

[Way2Broke]

Is there a moderator in the house? TC

While the the debate is hot, but I don't see anyone breaking any flight info rules. Try to keep the flame to a minimum guys, I don't want to lock down the thread. The thread is on the "watch" list.

 

[XTW]

Hello XTW,
I have your beer waiting in Orlando.

Remember this XTW I am in it with expectations!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LekiIzlHEds

I was in Orlando in November. No you, no beer.:uzi:

Good thing they only photo'd your back in the shadows. Would've cost them a new camera!


X

 

[aa73]

I suppose you feel that the rest of the aviation world looks so favorably upon you because of your outstanding safety record, integrity in dealing with integration issues, terrific rapport with management, harmonious relationship between labor groups, and super positve workplace vibe.

Wow...

Thank you much. My aviation record is indeed outstanding, my integrity in dealing with integration issues is perfect (never done one yet), my rapport with my chiefs is actually pretty good (they are managament), my relationship with the FAs is groovy baby! and above all, I have a SUPER positive workplace attitude that just bounces off the walls with joy and happiness.

Ahh! Am I supposed to care what the rest of the aviation world thinks, now? When I have it this good?

Happy holidays, folks! :beer:
73

 

[Mach8Forest]

I have a SUPER positive workplace attitude that just bounces off the walls with joy and happiness
Ahh! Am I supposed to care -
Happy holidays, folks! :beer:
73

You should care as you have most likely occupied a seat for over 3 years that is truly not yours. I bet that your a mid to late 90's hire F/O flying the 80 correct? You have no idea what kind of life damage you and your pilot group have done to so many TWA pilots all in the name of greed or should I say unity. Your flight attnds are even worse as if thats posible.
Happy Holidays to you.
Mach8

 

[Mach8Forest]

XTW,
Did you ever fly with Ted D out of JFK. He commuted out of LAX and flew mostly International. I remember when I trimmed the throttles on the 1011 at T/O he would hand me and all his engineers a Banana. Lots of great guys on that bird and lots of memories. Hope all is well with you and sorry about Nov as I just moved this month to Orlando. I hope to quit stepping on those peelings that you throw out after your done eating since our furlough.
Contact me when in Orlando
Mach8

 

[Gorilla]

After a substantial hiatus from FI, I return to find not much has changed. Great thread! Informative, fresh, and a good read.

 

[Mach8Forest]

While the the debate is hot, but I don't see anyone breaking any flight info rules. Try to keep the flame to a minimum guys, I don't want to lock down the thread. The thread is on the "watch" list.

What happened to the last page and the NWA pilots remarks?
Mach8