XJT forces 47 PAX to sleep aboard aircraft in Rochester, MN?

[livin'thesim]

Extremely unprofessional.

We need older, higher time captains. Not youngsters who can't assert authority and deal with these situations.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Sounds like our old mgmt team!

Trojan

Very true....I still see it today as far as the "procedures" and trying to go thru OCC for some things that just require you to do what needs to be done and discuss the touchy feely stuff later....Nobody else is there...Do what you need to do and tell eveyone that is what you are doing.

 

[MALSR]

Next time rent a bus for the rest of the way....geniuses

 

[ABC123]

I see everyone pointing at the captain...stop! Yes things could have been handled differently once there and realizing they timed out,but lets start at the beginning of the flight.

The Dispatcher...when planning the flight, did MSP require an alternate? Were Tstm;'s in the TAF? If yes, why in the heck did the dispatcher choose RST, and on the last flight of the night. DSM or OMA are the closest CO stations.

Okay so let's say, flight is full, if OMA or DSM was used and any hold fuel, bumped passengers, oh well, SAFETY OF FLIGHT and AWARE OF ALL WEATHER SITUATIONS!

Trust me I work for a carrier who flies for CO and we do MSP and RST will only be used has a paper alternate, if weather situation looks like a diversion could happen, then OMA or DSM, or have even used MKE or MSN for flights coming from the east.

This situation started long before the flight diverted, this started when the flight was planned poorly for the weather conditions forecasted for MSP that night...PLAIN AND SIMPLE, leaving the crew no choice but to set the flight down in a poor choice has an alternate.

Captain should have questioned all this before departure

 

[JoeMerchant]

I see everyone pointing at the captain...stop! Yes things could have been handled differently once there and realizing they timed out,but lets start at the beginning of the flight.

The Dispatcher...when planning the flight, did MSP require an alternate? Were Tstm;'s in the TAF? If yes, why in the heck did the dispatcher choose RST, and on the last flight of the night. DSM or OMA are the closest CO stations.

Okay so let's say, flight is full, if OMA or DSM was used and any hold fuel, bumped passengers, oh well, SAFETY OF FLIGHT and AWARE OF ALL WEATHER SITUATIONS!

Trust me I work for a carrier who flies for CO and we do MSP and RST will only be used has a paper alternate, if weather situation looks like a diversion could happen, then OMA or DSM, or have even used MKE or MSN for flights coming from the east.

This situation started long before the flight diverted, this started when the flight was planned poorly for the weather conditions forecasted for MSP that night...PLAIN AND SIMPLE, leaving the crew no choice but to set the flight down in a poor choice has an alternate.

Captain should have questioned all this before departure

You started by telling people to stop pointing fingers at the captain....and finished by pointing fingers at the captain.

 

[screech]

Extremely unprofessional.

We need older, higher time captains. Not youngsters who can't assert authority and deal with these situations.

I guess my age of 35 and 9200 hours as a "regional" captain is too low? How much flight time do you think is good? over 10,000 hours? Maybe a minimum of 7500 to upgrade. how about having a least 5 weather related diverts first?

Incompetence comes at all ages.

 

[callowayhd]

at least we are not reading about a crew who had been pushing their duty limit and had company pressure to land in MSP all while encountering windshear and ending up in a ball of fire short of the runway

 

[Andy Neill]

I think the problem was that RST is not a Continental/XJT station. RST is only served by NWA(connection) and Eagle. And i doubt their employee's would have gotten out of bed to take care of the flight.

According to the MSNBC article:
Passengers on another flight that had been diverted to the airport in Rochester, Minn., because of storms were allowed to disembark, and were put on a bus that would take them the remaining 85 miles to Minneapolis. And the terminal, where passengers could at least stretch their legs, breathe fresh air and use the vending machines, was a mere 50 yards away.....50 passengers on that plane were placed on a bus and made it to Minneapolis by 1:30.
[Airpoort manager] Leqve said the Delta manager in Rochester offered space on the bus to Continental, which declined.

 

[labbats]

The age, sex and experience of the captain have no relevance. Some people can make command decisions and some can't.

 

[cessnamann]

Who cares?

 

[s3jetman]

The pax need to be screened to get on, not off. I would've gone to the FBO, deplaned and worried about rescreening in the am. Then performed obligatory carpet dance later.

What the heck was this crew thinking? Ive done this before, winter storm in CLE ice moved in and MU wouldnt allow us to land, headed to alt. after talking to dx, landed, nobody around. Headed to FBO, called dx, got fuel, deiced, loaded plane 3 hours later to head to cle. Now i know i am a stupid GIA grad, and I fly a 1900, and I cant make decsions! How is it that I was able to figure all this out, and myself and company made the right calls organized TSA to meet the pax at the plane in CLE and clear them. Why dont captains take more responsibilty and make a decision? But I know, I know, GIA causes all accidents, poor pilots, and I bought job and blah blah blah. How the hell is it that i can do all this at just over 900 hours pic 121, first year in the ne winter ops, and others cant figure out to think on their own? Great book called Milkshake Moment I suggested all captains read it! wow want a rant!

 

[79%N1]

She should be fired. End of story.

 

[Evansaero]

I hope the capt didn't "Block In." :beer:

Bring back memories

 

[MACH-TUCK]

Should have done an emergency evacuation.

 

[007]

What the heck was this crew thinking? Ive done this before, winter storm in CLE ice moved in and MU wouldnt allow us to land, headed to alt. after talking to dx, landed, nobody around. Headed to FBO, called dx, got fuel, deiced, loaded plane 3 hours later to head to cle. Now i know i am a stupid GIA grad, and I fly a 1900, and I cant make decsions! How is it that I was able to figure all this out, and myself and company made the right calls organized TSA to meet the pax at the plane in CLE and clear them. Why dont captains take more responsibilty and make a decision? But I know, I know, GIA causes all accidents, poor pilots, and I bought job and blah blah blah. How the hell is it that i can do all this at just over 900 hours pic 121, first year in the ne winter ops, and others cant figure out to think on their own? Great book called Milkshake Moment I suggested all captains read it! wow want a rant!

Yes you're the greatest. You should immediately be promoted to 777 Captain with your 900 PIC.

Reread post #57

 

[007]

Ask any dispatcher...we've all seen cases where the captain (again, I emphasize, in a non-emergency/WX situation) gets a little overzealous in making an authoritative decision and goes straight for the first available strip of concrete...with no available services at that airport... when everything they need and more is 20nm up the road.

Ask any Pilot..we've all seen cases where the dispatchers gives us one of those great alternates on the other side of the 300 mile long line of Thunderstorms that has all the great services available but then doesn't let us know on how he was planning for us to get there.

You guys can Monday morning quarterback this crap for another 3 pages, fact is, none of us were there and therefore have no idea what was tried or what went down!

 

[Club ORD FO]

nevermind...

 

[pilotyip]

No common sense

TSA in this case is a good example of how health care will work should the Dem's get what they want. Common sense will not apply, it will be all regulation, with a big hammer dropped on nayone who does not follow the regs to a fault.

 

[DrewBlows]

TSA in this case is a good example of how health care will work should the Dem's get what they want. Common sense will not apply, it will be all regulation, with a big hammer dropped on nayone who does not follow the regs to a fault.

Really? You are blaming TSA? Health care? Really?! Don't you have a town hall meeting to interrupt?

 

[pilotyip]

Common Sense

Really? You are blaming TSA? Health care? Really?! Don't you have a town hall meeting to interrupt?

Common Sense would have let them taxi over to the FBO and unlaod the passengers, but there would be such severe penalites for that action that it was not attempted.

 

[COOPERVANE]

Got to be more to the story! I hope one of the pilots come on here to explain what happened.

 

[cldsfr79]

This plane (E145) does have air stairs right? Even if ever gate was occupied, they could have called the airport police or airport operations, have the plane parked by a gate, and escort the passengers off the plane. The jet bridges do have stairs right? The police and airport ops have codes to all those airport doors. The passengers could have even been escorted through a operations area and into the terminal if they weren't provided access to a jet bridge/gate. There is no reason why these people had to sit on the plane. When you are a captain, this is the time to problem solve. Even if the ramp agents aren't there to help or someone says no to an idea, figure something out.

When I used to fly with a regional, we had a situation where all the gates were full do to outbound delays and it was going to be well over an hour wait for a gate. Within minutes we were on the phone with the airport ops (not our airline ops) to figuring out a new plan to offload our passengers at another location/gate area. About 15 minutes later we were deplaning our passengers. You have to think outside the box.

Were these guys getting paid "block or better"?

In regards to comments about mainline carriers distancing themselves from regionals when a regional gets in trouble: The regionals are contracted to fly for the mainline on their behalf. Regionals are told where to fly, when to fly and what equipment to fly. The operational control is conducted by the regional staff. Training, dispatching, and decisions are made by the regional airline. Anytime an accident or incident occurs with a regional, it is there operational responsibilty. The mainline carrier didn't cause the plane to crash or to strand passengers on the plane, it was the regional airlines operational issue. You better believe that if a situation occurs the mainline would point fingers.

 

[Booker]

This plane (E145) does have air stairs right?

No, this particular one did not.

 

[lowspeed]

What the heck was this crew thinking? Ive done this before, winter storm in CLE ice moved in and MU wouldnt allow us to land, headed to alt. after talking to dx, landed, nobody around. Headed to FBO, called dx, got fuel, deiced, loaded plane 3 hours later to head to cle. Now i know i am a stupid GIA grad, and I fly a 1900, and I cant make decsions! How is it that I was able to figure all this out, and myself and company made the right calls organized TSA to meet the pax at the plane in CLE and clear them. Why dont captains take more responsibilty and make a decision? But I know, I know, GIA causes all accidents, poor pilots, and I bought job and blah blah blah. How the hell is it that i can do all this at just over 900 hours pic 121, first year in the ne winter ops, and others cant figure out to think on their own? Great book called Milkshake Moment I suggested all captains read it! wow want a rant!

Mommy and daddy must be so proud.

 

[DrewBlows]

Common Sense would have let them taxi over to the FBO and unlaod the passengers, but there would be such severe penalites for that action that it was not attempted.

I won't get into security protocol on a public forum except to say unloading at an FBO is not a security violation. Even if it were, Captains emergency authority overrides any minor security concerns. This is not a TSA issue, it's a customer service issue.

In my opinion, the Captain, ExpressJet, and Continental, in that order, screwed up. There is no air-stairs on an ExpressJet EMB145, but there are ways to unload the airplane if you are motivated and creative. A borrowed belt-loader would have been an option...not a great option...but an option nevertheless.

 

[pilotyip]

Again it looks like common sense was in short order.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

The question is why do they do this. They do this so as for you to devalue yourself and to slowly condition you to believe that you are not worth more than any other group, thus, you shouldn't seek better compensation or working conditions (bottom line). A myth you think? I beg to differ. Today, gate agents have way more power than Captains. If you don't comply, a couple of trips to the Chief's office and most fall in line. Other employee groups, especially gate agents have been instructed or conditioned to write up flight crews when their demands are not met. They have effectively become management tools to degrade our expectations.

I couldn't agree more. Humans/workers are widely manipulated with the guidence of industrial psychologists.

 

[cldsfr79]

No, this particular one did not.

Ok. Was ever gate occupied? If all the gates were, with coordination from another airline and/or airport ops, an empty parked plane could have been pushed off a gate temporarily while the Express Jet unloaded. OR air-stairs could have been driven out to the plane while it sat some where.

Just thinking outside the box.

The Express Jet name brand airline went out of business right? Huh, that's odd.

 

[brokedash]

I find that hard to believe.

Maybe you're thinking about letting them back on after they've left the aircraft.

Everyone could of been re-ticketed, and baggage rescanned in the morning.
XJT crew failed their pax.

Exactly, the problem isn't getting off, it is about getting back on, esp. if the pax have left the sterile area. The rest of it is just the stuff related to rebookings and such and if the airline has CSC at that airport.

 

[SoCentralRain]

Again it looks like common sense was in short order.

I think you meant "short supply."

Again, TSA had nothing to do with this one.

SCR