XJT forces 47 PAX to sleep aboard aircraft in Rochester, MN?

[2ndGenPSA]

I just have trouble believing that with a plane load of people and 3 crew members, there was not 1 person assertive enough to get anything done.

I agree!!
Three people, probably three cell phones, two vhf radios, Captain's authority, an FBO, and Northwest offering help (according to CNN)... INEXCUSABLE that this Captain did not figure something out.

This is the kind of event that would warrant a phone call to the President of XJet at no matter what hour. Are we missing something?!??!!? If there were no airstairs at the airport, then a stack of milk crates would work. Sheesh. I am bewildered.

 

[front9]

See, now if this flight was operated by MESA the PAX would have purple boards to put across the seats so they can camp in the aircraft with the crew. No deplane, no problem.

 

[WalterSobchak]

How about 121 carriers can not have alternates listed on the paperwork that will not have full services (TSA included) available if they have to divert.......

In some cases, the FBO Gas 'N' Go is a really great, and often faster, option. It just requires a little encouraging, sometimes persuasive, communication between your OCC and the FBO. If nothing else, you can...in most cases...at least pick up gas to go back to your origin station.

I'm just not sure how this kind of thing can happen unless there is some serious failures in DRM/CRM and communication breakdowns between dispatch and the captain. Not to throw all pilots under the bus, but this is the kind of thing we typically see when a captain makes a non-emergency, Captain's-Authority decision to divert to wherever they choose without using his/her resources (i.e., dispatch) to determine the best options for pax handling and flight continuation.

Ask any dispatcher...we've all seen cases where the captain (again, I emphasize, in a non-emergency/WX situation) gets a little overzealous in making an authoritative decision and goes straight for the first available strip of concrete...with no available services at that airport... when everything they need and more is 20nm up the road.

 

[MINIME]

This is the kind of outcome you get when Management teams at almost all airlines have been successfully working at taking Captain's authority away from them. I know, I know, the FARs state this and that. But when the Cheif pilot makes you do a carpet dance everytime you fart without asking for permission what do we get? I'm generalizing here. We get pilots that are intimidated and afraid of their own shadows! They have successfully made pilots that follow a map and are not allowed to make command decisions, especially on the ground.

The question is why do they do this. They do this so as for you to devalue yourself and to slowly condition you to believe that you are not worth more than any other group, thus, you shouldn't seek better compensation or working conditions (bottom line). A myth you think? I beg to differ. Today, gate agents have way more power than Captains. If you don't comply, a couple of trips to the Chief's office and most fall in line. Other employee groups, especially gate agents have been instructed or conditioned to write up flight crews when their demands are not met. They have effectively become management tools to degrade our expectations.

This may seem off topic. But in reality it is very relative. In a situation where a Captain has to make a dicision, he/she may be more concerned with what dispatch or the Chief pilot may have to say about it than what's immediately necessary for a positive outcome. This is real folks. It's happenning and I've witnessed it and perhaps did it myself to some extent. It needs to be addressed and it needs to fixed.

We cannot continue to feel like our hands are tied in situations like these. Hell, if it takes me dialing 911 on my cell to get my passengers off then so be it! A Captain needs to have the authority to do that if in his/her best judgement that's what it took to resolve the issue at hand.

 

[WalterSobchak]

We get pilots that are intimidated and afraid of their own shadows! They have successfully made pilots that follow a map and are not allowed to make command decisions, especially on the ground.

I'm not disagreeing with your comments, as I agree that Captain's Authority has been eroded a quite a bit over the years (especially with those Nazi gate agents). However, had a proper decision been made prior to diversion, utilizing all the resources at hand, the need to make command decisions on the ground would never been necessary.

We weren't there, we don't know the situation and, thus, we can only speculate...but this reeks of overzealous and uninformed decision making on the part of the captain.

 

[Uncle Bunkle]

So when the hell is this CA going to come on here and explain her actions? Or why doesn't her FO chime in with an explanation?

 

[ArtVandalay]

The crew on this flight are MORONS.

 

[Jet_Dreamer]

The crew on this flight are MORONS.

So when the hell is this CA going to come on here and explain her actions? Or why doesn't her FO chime in with an explanation?

SO true!

I had a problem just like this in the past. i told the co. to let them off and bus them to their destination airport. they took care of it, i watched it happen, then repo'd the plane home. this crew just needed to grow some balls.:angryfire

 

[General Lee]

The Crew and all 47 pax slept on the plane for 6 hours, with a full lav? Come on now IDIOTS. Grow some ballz. Do something. That really is terrible, and both pilots and the stew need to be yelled at. Overnight? Tell Ground Control you need the fire trucks because you will have an emergency in the next 5 minutes when you blow the slides. People will start doing something quick. Talk about a health hazzard. 6 EXTRA (after the divert) hours on a stinky E145? Sheesh. And Expressjet should have known the crew was close to timing out, and should have looked at the MSP forcast. Can you say REROUTE? Take that crew to McAllen, and then the McAllen crew to MSP. Honestly, what a complete bunch of Morons.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SplitBar]

Was Pochono Pilot the Captain?

 

[Booker]

you will have an emergency in the next 5 minutes when you blow the slides

That certainly would be an emergency on a 145. :laugh: Joking aside, I agree completely.

 

[Minimaniac]

I just want to point out a few things that people are missing in their attacks on this crew:

1. No bus could be chartered
2. The crew would have been illegal to fly anywhere.

That said, this was a horrible, horrible display of professional leadership. I fully agree that the plane could have been taxied over to an FBO and been disembarked there. In the first hour, I could have called a number of local hotels to verify availability (sorry, my regional wages don't allow me to buy everyone rooms and wait for company reimbursement), and called a few local cab companies and had drivers sent out to take the passengers to their hotels. Once such arrangements were made, I would then let everyone off, letting them know full well what the plan was, and told them what time to report to the airport in the morning if they intended to continue to MSP on this aircraft. I would then tell dispatch exaclty what time the passengers were returning, and to decide whether or not they wanted this aircraft or a bus to move the passengers in the morning.

Sometimes YOU have to dictate and step on some toes to get the right thing done. Let TSA figure it out in the morning. If passngers can't get back through securiuty, then send a bus.

An FBO can come up with some way to get people down from the door height. One pilot can offload the luggage, and the other can supervise the passengers.

On September 11, 2001, no passengers were forced to stay onbaord a grounded aircraft for 9 hours. All those pilots, regional AND mainline alike, found a way to get everyone off their planes having landed at many offline airports in the process.

The actions of this crew are just plain inexcusable.

I think that every captain upgrade oral exam should have a few situation-type questions where these extreme circumstances are presented. While such the answers given may not be a grounds for failure, it gives the new captains a chance to THINK instead of regurgitate, and to discuss the scope of Captain's authority. The benefit of doing in in an oral is that it puts each captain on the spot, and requires each captain to come up with an answer. Even with prioir knowledge of the questions through gouges, the seeds of though are implanted and will help most captains when the time comes.

 

[Popeye0537]

I heard the FO was nerjdriver. He was to busy studying the similarities between his 145xr and the Space Shuttle that he lost track of time. Why hasn't that tool chimed in by now?

 

[General Lee]

That certainly would be an emergency on a 145. :laugh: Joking aside, I agree completely.

I guess the E145 doesn't have slides. Do the ATC people know that? They probably do not. Maybe they will rush some people out there to help. Really, that was a bad job by XJT Dispatch, and the crew. Apparently the Delta (or NWA--Mesaba--whatever) operations there at Rochester asked the plane if they needed help with deplaning, and the crew said they couldn't do it.............


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[submachXJ]

http://kstp.com/news/stories/S1076398.shtml?cat=1
http://kstp.com/news/stories/S1076398.shtml?cat=1

Watch the video and read the story.

In addition there may be more added as the 6pm news added that northwest operations (Mesaba there in rst) in addition to the airport offered to help and someone declined (plane or xjet company?) as they hoped to leave and just like any delay they cascade read above article.

Should of pulled the plug on that one, let everyone off and like it’s been said brush up for the carpet dance. It’s going to happen but that’s why you have a union. Representation and job security from unilateral action. And probably would have amounted to nothing. As it turned out either way you’re going to be dancing and now on the bad side of opinion. It’s about decision making. But you only know how you will act when you are in that hot seat with everything that has or hasn’t been reported or known.

 

[RP 04]

Maybe it should be allowed for pax to assault MORON flight crew?

 

[007]

You wouldn't see this at SkyWest.

You wouldn't see this at [insert airline's name here], I would be so much smarter, yada yada yada, bla bla bla.

Every outfit has weak links and it can happen anywhere!

 

[cjdriver]

I'm disappointed the crew didn't have enough concern for the well being of their pax, who entrust their safety and well being in them, to do the right thing and get them off the plane. Very disappointing. Did I say this was disappointing?

 

[JoeMerchant]

We have created an environment where people can't make command decisions and don't know how to make decisions.

We look to the government to help us run our lives because we can't do it ourselves.

We don't value experience...instead we teach "recipe" flying or "cookbook" flying....Lots of books, procedures, etc....

We have too many rules and regulations...probably more will come out of this...This makes people afraid to do anything for fear of "getting in trouble"....TSA, FAA, Company, local Barney Fife cops....A quagmire of largely useless regulation that does nothing.....

Common sense has been replaced by rules, regulations, procedures, and 5 levels of authorization....There is something to be said for being a cowboy and doing what is right....

 

[USCtrojan]

We have created an environment where people can't make command decisions and don't know how to make decisions.

We look to the government to help us run our lives because we can't do it ourselves.

We don't value experience...instead we teach "recipe" flying or "cookbook" flying....Lots of books, procedures, etc....

We have too many rules and regulations...probably more will come out of this...This makes people afraid to do anything for fear of "getting in trouble"....TSA, FAA, Company, local Barney Fife cops....A quagmire of largely useless regulation that does nothing.....

Common sense has been replaced by rules, regulations, procedures, and 5 levels of authorization....There is something to be said for being a cowboy and doing what is right....

Sounds like our old mgmt team!

Trojan