Wow, Delta's Earnings

[redflyer65]

Bill, give us a recommendation, should SWA outsource to an RJ or turboprop outfit so we can get to 400 destinations?

Seriously, this country needs to deal that there really isn't 400 cities deserving jet type service.

Exactly what I thought of Bill Lumberg's complete NON-answer. So in his response, we should just outsource everything that Delta can't do, or can't do profitably. That's an awesome business model.

The funny thing is, he acts like Delta flies to 400 domestic destinations....when they really don't!

 

[DTW320]

Wow.

You're not the most observant guy in the world are you. The post Puff responded to was from XJHawk. From the content of his posts it's pretty clear that he NEVER did any of the stuff I listed. Just sits in his fancy jet at FL350 watching the autopilot and FMS fly for hundreds of miles. And still WHINES incessantly about how his job sucks and he deserves to be flying for a major/legacy.

Last I read your stuff you seem to be happy at SWA and not whining about some legacy owing you a job.

Apparently it's YOU that doesn't see the difference. Try to keep up will ya...

PS. It was 10 legs a day without an autopilot, ******************************bag... 8? That's what you do at SWA right?

 

[waveflyer]

Such animosity
Sensitive feelers out there when one dares throw a wrench in the last generation's superiority complex.

No, I don't like those that sit on their arse and wait around-

But if you think that defines most regional pilots, you're out of your mind-

Let me ask you- Is it not fair to protest against this level of outsourcing? Where large jets are now flying major market to major market doing what used to be done in your dc9's?

Is that not a fair thing to object to?

Can you not see how limited hiring has been in the last decade of tripled RJ's? And can you put yourself in those shoes, and realize that with so few jobs to be had- almost none at legacies, that there might be a whole lot of really ambitious pilots doing everything right, and everything they can- who won't have opportunities- and now instead of sacrificing for a 3-6 years, your new system of extensive outsourcing is requiring that they sacrifice 8-15. And that decisions to go to the majors at 42 instead of 32 are much different, in terms of having a life?
You know what would make me a do^chebag? If I got to southwest, started making great coin and just forgot about all my people back at the regionals- if I stayed quiet about how bad this level of outsourcing has gotten. How deep the divisions have grown even within legacies.

The difference is, I don't view myself above the RJ pilot bc I flew turboprops 10 legs a day on min rest- bc guess what- ever see the city pairs the smaller RJ's fly out of OHare?
They're the same ones turboprops used to fly

You guys defending your vote is amazing

 

[General Lee]

Such animosity
Sensitive feelers out there when one dares throw a wrench in the last generation's superiority complex.

No, I don't like those that sit on their arse and wait around-

But if you think that defines most regional pilots, you're out of your mind-

Let me ask you- Is it not fair to protest against this level of outsourcing? Where large jets are now flying major market to major market doing what used to be done in your dc9's?

Is that not a fair thing to object to?

Can you not see how limited hiring has been in the last decade of tripled RJ's? And can you put yourself in those shoes, and realize that with so few jobs to be had- almost none at legacies, that there might be a whole lot of really ambitious pilots doing everything right, and everything they can- who won't have opportunities- and now instead of sacrificing for a 3-6 years, your new system of extensive outsourcing is requiring that they sacrifice 8-15. And that decisions to go to the majors at 42 instead of 32 are much different, in terms of having a life?
You know what would make me a do^chebag? If I got to southwest, started making great coin and just forgot about all my people back at the regionals- if I stayed quiet about how bad this level of outsourcing has gotten. How deep the divisions have grown even within legacies.

The difference is, I don't view myself above the RJ pilot bc I flew turboprops 10 legs a day on min rest- bc guess what- ever see the city pairs the smaller RJ's fly out of OHare?
They're the same ones turboprops used to fly

You guys defending your vote is amazing

Wave, there is a lot here that you don't seem to comprehend. First off, many of those routes that used to be "DC9" routes, went to RJs, but now will go back to 717s. 88 717s are coming. Next, this last contract got rid of 140 total 50 seaters, IN WRITING. Sure, some may think they were going away anyway, but 315 of them had hard leases through 2015. Now, 140 fewer RJs will be flying, the larger RJs will fill in for the smaller ones at the smaller cities, and the 717s will recapture many of those old DC9 routes. THAT'S GOOD. You fail to recognize that, again and again. You can't just dump all your feed, and some cities can't support a 717. This is hub and spoke, not point to point which your airline mainly does. Someday, I hope you'll figure this out. Good luck Wavey!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Twisted Mind]

Every generation complains about the "new generation". It is always the same when I was a kid.... These kids are lazy, dumb........ He'll there is at least one country song I can think of off the top of my head about the subject.

"We never complained." What?!?!? I have never met a pilot that didn't whine constantly. That is like a radial engine if it isn't leaking oil it is out of oil. If a pilot isn't complaining he is dead.

 

[waveflyer]

True enough twisted- generational war is usually a boring conversation - but in this age boomers have absolutely declared war on everyone but them. Took and took from the ww2 vets- gladly- and instead of building on that legacy, have spent their lives dismantling it. JMO- and I'll adjust and be fine- but not everyone will and I certainly don't have to withhold criticism so well earned. Leeches.

GL- I understand your excuses just fine, I disagree- you understand that concept? Disagreement. Delta is playing chess and you apes are playing checkers badly.

It would have been better for you to keep your 50 seaters and see if the economics would allow them to stick around versus trading more "economically viable" 90 seaters for them-

Not a big leap from crj900's to CRJ 1000's- and not a big leap from 1000's to C-series. Which is basically a 717-
When will dalpa stop outsourcing? As long as delta takes their time you've shown nothing but a propensity to keep on letting them outsource bigger and bigger-

You missed a golden opportunity last year and you're seriously dumb if you don't know that

 

[SplitBar]

True enough twisted- generational war is usually a boring conversation - but in this age boomers have absolutely declared war on everyone but them. Took and took from the ww2 vets- gladly- and instead of building on that legacy, have spent their lives dismantling it. JMO- and I'll adjust and be fine- but not everyone will and I certainly don't have to withhold criticism so well earned. Leeches.

GL- I understand your excuses just fine, I disagree- you understand that concept? Disagreement. Delta is playing chess and you apes are playing checkers badly.

It would have been better for you to keep your 50 seaters and see if the economics would allow them to stick around versus trading more "economically viable" 90 seaters for them-

Not a big leap from crj900's to CRJ 1000's- and not a big leap from 1000's to C-series. Which is basically a 717-
When will dalpa stop outsourcing? As long as delta takes their time you've shown nothing but a propensity to keep on letting them outsource bigger and bigger-

You missed a golden opportunity last year and you're seriously dumb if you don't know that

Obsess much?

 

[General Lee]

True enough twisted- generational war is usually a boring conversation - but in this age boomers have absolutely declared war on everyone but them. Took and took from the ww2 vets- gladly- and instead of building on that legacy, have spent their lives dismantling it. JMO- and I'll adjust and be fine- but not everyone will and I certainly don't have to withhold criticism so well earned. Leeches.

GL- I understand your excuses just fine, I disagree- you understand that concept? Disagreement. Delta is playing chess and you apes are playing checkers badly.

It would have been better for you to keep your 50 seaters and see if the economics would allow them to stick around versus trading more "economically viable" 90 seaters for them-

Not a big leap from crj900's to CRJ 1000's- and not a big leap from 1000's to C-series. Which is basically a 717-
When will dalpa stop outsourcing? As long as delta takes their time you've shown nothing but a propensity to keep on letting them outsource bigger and bigger-

You missed a golden opportunity last year and you're seriously dumb if you don't know that

Uhhhhhh, the seat limit remains at 76 seats wave, and those are still restricted, along with 70 seaters, and large turboprops. They are all limited. 70 extra 76 seaters were allowed so manufacturer would take back 210 50 seaters, meaning 140 fewer total RJs. That's good. Then add 88 717s. That's fantastic.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[waveflyer]

Right.

http://www.bombardier.com/en/aerospace/commercial-aircraft.html

 

[waveflyer]

Obsess much?

Don't need to obsess to get the bulge on tub's like dalpa pilots.

Good profits. You're going to share that with your domestic pilots you keep off your seniority list, I bet? Right?

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

But let me be clear on something here. As a regional pilot I am bitter and see the big picture as I am on the crappy end of this system our mainline pilots have given us. But as someone who wants to be a future mainline pilot, I would love to get hired on at any of the majors including Delta but would voice my concern over what is right and wrong to my unions leaders to change the system.

oh yeah....everything wrong in your career path is a mainline pilots fault.

Got it!!

Cheers XJ

 

[PuffDriver]

Such animosity
Sensitive feelers out there when one dares throw a wrench in the last generation's superiority complex.

No, I don't like those that sit on their arse and wait around-

But if you think that defines most regional pilots, you're out of your mind-

Let me ask you- Is it not fair to protest against this level of outsourcing? Where large jets are now flying major market to major market doing what used to be done in your dc9's?

Is that not a fair thing to object to?

Can you not see how limited hiring has been in the last decade of tripled RJ's? And can you put yourself in those shoes, and realize that with so few jobs to be had- almost none at legacies, that there might be a whole lot of really ambitious pilots doing everything right, and everything they can- who won't have opportunities- and now instead of sacrificing for a 3-6 years, your new system of extensive outsourcing is requiring that they sacrifice 8-15. And that decisions to go to the majors at 42 instead of 32 are much different, in terms of having a life?
You know what would make me a do^chebag? If I got to southwest, started making great coin and just forgot about all my people back at the regionals- if I stayed quiet about how bad this level of outsourcing has gotten. How deep the divisions have grown even within legacies.

The difference is, I don't view myself above the RJ pilot bc I flew turboprops 10 legs a day on min rest- bc guess what- ever see the city pairs the smaller RJ's fly out of OHare?
They're the same ones turboprops used to fly

You guys defending your vote is amazing

I voted no. What else do you have?

 

[Twisted Mind]

Bill Lumberg,

I am still waiting. What percentage, or how many pilots on DAL list have birthdates after 1975? What do you think your probability of being hired at DAL is if you were born after '75?

 

[General Lee]

Bill Lumberg,

I am still waiting. What percentage, or how many pilots on DAL list have birthdates after 1975? What do you think your probability of being hired at DAL is if you were born after '75?

I'm not Bill, but I'll give that one a shot. DL has learned not to hire all pilots around the same age (as they did in the 80's) because that means they all retire at the same time (like upcoming later this decade). There were guys in my class that were 47 years old, and they are now almost at mandatory retirements age. They want to spread out the retirements, not keep then in bunches. Good luck.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[jonjuan]

I'm not Bill, but I'll give that one a shot. DL has learned not to hire all pilots around the same age (as they did in the 80's) because that means they all retire at the same time (like upcoming later this decade). There were guys in my class that were 47 years old, and they are now almost at mandatory retirements age. They want to spread out the retirements, not keep then in bunches. Good luck.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Huh, toolio? Seriously doubt they care about hiring ages as it relates to "mass retirements" 30 years from now. :laugh: :smash::nuts:

 

[Twisted Mind]

GL,

I agree with you 100%. I think they were mostly hiring what was available at the time.

 

[waveflyer]

I voted no. What else do you have?

Sure you did....

Your group didnt, which means you weren't that convincing

 

[Dan Roman]

Every generation complains about the "new generation". It is always the same when I was a kid.... These kids are lazy, dumb........ He'll there is at least one country song I can think of off the top of my head about the subject.

"We never complained." What?!?!? I have never met a pilot that didn't whine constantly. That is like a radial engine if it isn't leaking oil it is out of oil. If a pilot isn't complaining he is dead.

What's the difference between a pilot and a turbine engine? The turbine engine stops whining when it gets to the gate.

Your point is spot on, I know a lot of really good people from all generations. I thinks it's a safe bet that the pilots on here that feel the need to refer to older pilots with all kinds of disparaging names clearly have issues with Fathers, bosses or whatever. No matter what generation you are, the generation before you wasn't perfect, but they contributed much to what you have. Every generation made mistakes and every generation has done some good, sort of a 3 steps forward one step back deal. The senior pilots today had deregulation and free for all competition dumped on their laps at the beginning of their career and government sanctioned stealing of their pensions at the end of it.
During that time they managed to secure huge improvements the way junior or furloughed pilots are treated.

 

[Jeepman]

If only we acted and were able to treat each other as "professionals" on here, imagine the possibilities.

 

[jonjuan]

If only we acted and were able to treat each other as "professionals" on here, imagine the possibilities.

F you..... (Kidding). Enjoy the WE and dont forget to pray for the General's safety during his layover in Nigeria.

 

[General Lee]

Huh, toolio? Seriously doubt they care about hiring ages as it relates to "mass retirements" 30 years from now. :laugh: :smash::nuts:

Uh, you're wrong, toolio. They have learned their lesson. They are now trying to space it out more. Sorry, and say hi to your Mom and sister for me.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Scoot 11]

Don't need to obsess to get the bulge on tub's like dalpa pilots.

Good profits. You're going to share that with your domestic pilots you keep off your seniority list, I bet? Right?

Coming from the group of sellouts who make their employees buy their jobs. Get a life ****************************** bag!

 

[Monster Buck]

DALPA outsources almost 1 thousand RJ's at the heyday (twice the number of airframes that SW even operates by the way), meanwhile SW has NEVER had one RJ on the property and you guys are celebrating Puff's post? How many thousands of jobs lost at Delta over the past 15+ years because of that short sighted decision? How many dues dollars lost to your local union?

Wow.

Hey wizass didn't you fly one of those planes before your glorious carreer at holier than thou swa? If it wasn't for you being on that team you wouldn't be at swa. Funny that you are above all that now.

 

[Monster Buck]

Okay so maybe I am mistaken about the Delta pilot union, ALPA National (who is at the head of that union? oh, a Delta pilot), and Delta airlines were all involved in our bankruptcy contract negotiations but I think not since I think they all signed the agreement knowing that Delta was stepping in to take over Pinnacle once we emerged from bankruptcy with that sham of a bankruptcy contract. I think it was the chairman of our own MEC at Pinnacle said they were all involved in the contract "bridge to know where" agreements and he told us that Delta would shut us down if we did not sign. This is just a legal coercion by corporate america and the reps of the Delta pilot were there to make sure they got a say in our future. There is where my bitterness comes from. If you try and say like so many other uninformed Delta pilots that I am every other pinnacle pilot has a way into Delta you are wrong. The wording and time frame of the Bridge agreement is so weak, it is not even a glimmer of hope for 75% of the pilot group. Do you really think any of us want to stick around for 4+ years to get an interview for Delta when they can change the requirements at anytime when its time to interview a pinnacle pilot? Was it the Delta pilots that allowed Delta to add 70 more large regional Jets to use as carrots for screwing Pinnacle? Or the parking of hundreds of CRJ 200's to save Delta hundreds of millions in maintenance costs? Delta corporation did the dirty work here in orchestrating this move but the Delta pilots helped lay out the tools and saw the profits from Pinnacle, the parking of the 200's, to fund their pay raises and profit sharing checks. You Delta pilots have rates for the CRJ 900 but still allowed more outsourcing and the purchasing of another ALPA carrier to fly an airplane which you have rates for. You do not see why I would be bitter?

Should you be judged by TW actions then?

 

[Monster Buck]

But let me be clear on something here. As a regional pilot I am bitter and see the big picture as I am on the crappy end of this system our mainline pilots have given us. But as someone who wants to be a future mainline pilot, I would love to get hired on at any of the majors including Delta but would voice my concern over what is right and wrong to my unions leaders to change the system.

We do the same. Not everyone agrees on the changes though. Some changes happen and some don't.

 

[Monster Buck]

A friend of mine did some number crunching and the rate in which Delta has announced for its hiring and classes. The first few classes of 50 will be mostly returning Delta pilots and then those are all done there will be some Compass, a small number of XJ grandfathered flows and a very small trickle of "Endeavor" pilots under the Bridge Agreement. Then, just as the gates could open up for Pinnacle (Endeavor) pilots, Delta is forecasting hiring 20 a month through the rest of 2014. At that rate, I will be mostly Compass pilots joining Delta taking another year away for Pinnacle pilots to have an opportunity to leave the crap hole we are working in. On top of that, Delta has seemed to given us more flying and I and many other reserves are crediting 90 hours a month at 11 days off because we are short. Endeavor is junior manning constantly and losing FO's so fast (See FO pay scales to see why) we will always be understaffed. So why would Delta hire any Pinnacle pilot if it means canceled Delta flights? All it takes is to interview and say.....No thanks, you do not meet our standards and not hire any of us.

I am working at Pinnacle to use it as a means to pay for my family and stay current until I can leave. For some idiot to tell me this crap-shows they are idiots-Delta pilot or not. The fact that he is a Delta pilot makes it worse as they should not be as ignorant of the situation especially if they are profiting off Pinnacle pilots situation.

I don't think a single pilot voted in a way that they believed was "profiting of a pinnacle guy". Don't let these boards get to you, there are more people on your side at Delta than you think.

 

[General Lee]

F you..... (Kidding). Enjoy the WE and dont forget to pray for the General's safety during his layover in Nigeria.

The trip to Lagos is actually ver senior, a 4 day (arriving on the morning of the 4th day at 5am) with 2 total legs, a crew rest bunk, worth 24+ hours. I don't bid that, but plenty do, especially guys who commute. Thanks for the prayers, though. Say hi to your Mom and sister for me.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[PuffDriver]

Sure you did....

Your group didnt, which means you weren't that convincing

So, yes, you are out of arguments. Cool. That didn't take long. Maybe you should go debate a 1 year old, you'll likely win that one.

 

[Scoot 11]

So, yes, you are out of arguments. Cool. That didn't take long. Maybe you should go debate a 1 year old, you'll likely win that one.

I doubt it! The only thing him and a 1 year old would have in common is--->:crying:

 

[redflyer65]

Hey wizass didn't you fly one of those planes before your glorious carreer at holier than thou swa? If it wasn't for you being on that team you wouldn't be at swa. Funny that you are above all that now.

I've always been for less outsourcing (or none if possible, ie SW). I'm glad your proud of Delta's history of opening these flood gates. You know, the guys that were holier than thou and couldn't bring themselves to fly a 'regional jet'. History's a b!tch isn't Monster?

Just like DALPA signing off on more larger RJ's. Anderson's coming for the 100 seat scope next time and you guys will fold again. Like a cheap suit.