Wow, Delta's Earnings

[HA25]

The truth is that regionals were traditionally "stepping-stones," to bigger and better things -- build your time and move on. Then 9-11 came, and legacy managements took the opportunity to eviscerate scope and hand the lower-end of mainline flying to the lowest bidder.

Recently, due to improved collective-bargaining power and the higher cost of jet fuel the trend is moving back towards mainline flying -- and larger but fewer RJ's (and outsourced jobs.) Those are the facts. No animus, nothing personal, no "vengeance" against Comair. Simple economics. Anyone who thought this day would never come, and subsequently planned on a career at a regional (and committing financially to that plan) are now SOL.

BTW, you are never too old to start over at a legacy.

My career is well encompassed in this statement... ASA as a stepping stone, went to American just before 9/11.... bounced between 5 jobs from '01 to '11 due to BKs, furloughs and the like... and now finally at a Legacy and happy to be here in my mid 40's... I hope the tide has turned, and we can rebuild our contracts/pay.. time will tell.

 

[waveflyer]

Double

 

[waveflyer]

Everything happening is as a result of your actions, you are enabling, the process. You have choices, unfortunately picking the wrong ones seem to be habit. Your incessant whining about your situation, which you are wholly responsible for is predictable. You are really the problem, not the DAL guy, except, Genny Pee, but he isn't really a pilot, just a fanboy.

DALPA are SELLOUTS -

This isn't news- they CONTINUALLY VOTE TO keep a large section of their pilots off their seniority list and whipsawed against each other.

Mainline has the vote. They're the only ones who have the power to change the situation- yet what did you do? Sold out more -900's. a more "economically viable RJ"

Sellout so much and there will be those who will need to make a career out of regionals- dont keep moving the target, setting up barriers to the mainline job that you didn't have and say "don't worry buddy, you'll get there!"

Every two 90 seaters out there is an airbus delta doesn't need

 

[waveflyer]

The truth is that regionals were traditionally "stepping-stones," to bigger and better things -- build your time and move on. Then 9-11 came, and legacy managements took the opportunity to eviscerate scope and hand the lower-end of mainline flying to the lowest bidder.

Recently, due to improved collective-bargaining power and the higher cost of jet fuel the trend is moving back towards mainline flying -- and larger but fewer RJ's (and outsourced jobs.) Those are the facts. No animus, nothing personal, no "vengeance" against Comair. Simple economics. Anyone who thought this day would never come, and subsequently planned on a career at a regional (and committing financially to that plan) are now SOL.

BTW, you are never too old to start over at a legacy.

That said, I agree with this^^^

Never make a career out of a regional without knowing you might be starting over regardless- do it if you want, but it isn't without risk-

And it's not simple Econ- it's diabolical Econ- any regional gets too solid- they'll be spooled down and another spooled up- that's what mainline pilots vote for - continual whipsaw of a big section of their pilots

 

[General Lee]

DALPA are SELLOUTS -

This isn't news- they CONTINUALLY VOTE TO keep a large section of their pilots off their seniority list and whipsawed against each other.

Mainline has the vote. They're the only ones who have the power to change the situation- yet what did you do? Sold out more -900's. a more "economically viable RJ"

Sellout so much and there will be those who will need to make a career out of regionals- dont keep moving the target, setting up barriers to the mmainline job that you didn't have and say "don't worry buddy, you'll get there!"

Every two 90 seaters out there is an airbus delta doesn't need

Wavey continually misses a few points. Number 1, you can't get rid of all the RJs at once. This contract states there will be 140 fewer RJs in total, which in reality is a darn good start. 315 50 seaters had solid leases through 2015, and now many of those will be gone sooner. Next, mainline planes can't make money on every route. Look, SWA is dumping 717s and 17 city pairs because they determined they wouldn't make money. Dothan, AL wouldn't be profitable on a mainline plane. And, he calls them 90 seaters. They may be designed to hold that many, but the limit is 76 seats. The plan to bring 88 717s in and bump 76 and 70 seaters down to cover existing 50 seat routes, to try to make them more profitable. That means mainline is recapturing previous routes that were handed to DCI. Those 717s bring mainline back, and SWA is funding that. Thanks.


And at the same time newhire payrates continue to climb. I believe DL's rates are $61 an hour starting in Jan, and $71 an hour in Jan of 2015. That's better than the other two legacies by $20 an hour, and you don't have to pay for your own type rating. Imagine that!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Hpilot]

Wavey continually misses a few points. Number 1, you can't get rid of all the RJs at once. This contract states there will be 140 fewer RJs in total, which in reality is a darn good start. 315 50 seaters had solid leases through 2015, and now many of those will be gone sooner. Next, mainline planes can't make money on every route. Look, SWA is dumping 717s and 17 city pairs because they determined they wouldn't make money. Dothan, AL wouldn't be profitable on a mainline plane. And, he calls them 90 seaters. They may be designed to hold that many, but the limit is 76 seats. The plan to bring 88 717s in and bump 76 and 70 seaters down to cover existing 50 seat routes, to try to make them more profitable. That means mainline is recapturing previous routes that were handed to DCI. Those 717s bring mainline back, and SWA is funding that. Thanks.

And at the same time newhire payrates continue to climb. I believe DL's rates are $61 an hour starting in Jan, and $71 an hour in Jan of 2015. That's better than the other two legacies by $20 an hour, and you don't have to pay for your own type rating. Imagine that!


Bye Bye---General Lee

Congrats on the earnings. We're playing catch up (both company earnings and pilot pay), but I'm optimistic about the future.

 

[General Lee]

Congrats on the earnings. We're playing catch up (both company earnings and pilot pay), but I'm optimistic about the future.

I hope you guys do catch up, and I hope your NIC award is implemented prior to your SLI with AA. It is the fair and right thing to do. Good luck.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Scoot 11]

DALPA are SELLOUTS -

This isn't news- they CONTINUALLY VOTE TO keep a large section of their pilots off their seniority list and whipsawed against each other.

Mainline has the vote. They're the only ones who have the power to change the situation- yet what did you do? Sold out more -900's. a more "economically viable RJ"

Sellout so much and there will be those who will need to make a career out of regionals- dont keep moving the target, setting up barriers to the mainline job that you didn't have and say "don't worry buddy, you'll get there!"

Every two 90 seaters out there is an airbus delta doesn't need

Hey pft troll. Um, DL is getting ready to hire this fall, while I hear you tools are overstaffed by almost 400 pilots. Better update that app. Don't worry though toolbag, you won't have to pay for your job at DL. You can swing gear for me any time. But for now, you can just continue to do it for the AT pilot who didn't have to buy his/her job.

 

[Twisted Mind]

Bill Lumberg's big pay cut, Bill Lumberg's furlough, Bill Lumberg's pension, Bill Lumberg's Comair........ Who is the biggest whiner on this website??? Bill Lumberg! If you don't like your job at Delta quit! Guess what Bill Lumberg every one had all those things happen to them. The difference between you and all the people stuck at the regionals is birth date. You had the opportunity XJ did not.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Twisted Mind? Really?

Somebody didn't hug you or something growing up?

Do tell these opportunities I have had?
I have luckily never been furloughed but did lose my pension.....but love my job!! I don't blame other people for my life's choices. Nothings fair, Then again, I am dealing with people like you and XJ who are part of the problem with this world, who want it all handed to them and then when it doesn't pan out, blame somebody else.

Nice hit and run Twisted....so hike up your skirt and join the debate instead of calling somebody a whiner (ooooOOooooo) or PM me if you are scared. This oughta be good!

 

[waveflyer]

He calls out others for being "scared" but has me on ignore.

GL-- i have pointed out all those things. NO, you can't just get rid of all rj's at once. I never suggested that-

YOU have to suggest that's what i'm saying bc your argument is so flimsy. Youre the Fox news of FI- just repeat something untrue often enough and you think you can still paint the perception of what i'm saying and discredit me. Classy as we expect from you GL.

What you didn't need to do was allow the INCREASE in the number of CRJ 900's - Why did that number need to increase just when economic pressure was going to naturally decrease the number of 50 seaters? Why couldn't DALPA fly those airplanes if the delta system needed them so bad?

You reloaded the whipsaw market with hundreds more "economically viable, profitable "RJs"' and gave away what is essentially a few seats short of your DC9's

And yes- a -900 is a 90 seater. The extra space is used for a very profitable first class.
by your logic Gen, it would be ok for republic and skywest to fly 737's if they were configured to 76 seats??

you guys are sellouts-

nice profit- that helps me- but don't expect to ever get a pass on leading the charge in outsourcing. Management knows you guys have no line in the sand. All they have to do is muddy the waters a bit, and add in a bit of incentives and you guys will always boil the frog to larger and larger outsourcing.

 

[PuffDriver]

He calls out others for being "scared" but has me on ignore.

GL-- i have pointed out all those things. NO, you can't just get rid of all rj's at once. I never suggested that-

YOU have to suggest that's what i'm saying bc your argument is so flimsy. Youre the Fox news of FI- just repeat something untrue often enough and you think you can still paint the perception of what i'm saying and discredit me. Classy as we expect from you GL.

What you didn't need to do was allow the INCREASE in the number of CRJ 900's - Why did that number need to increase just when economic pressure was going to naturally decrease the number of 50 seaters? Why couldn't DALPA fly those airplanes if the delta system needed them so bad?

You reloaded the whipsaw market with hundreds more "economically viable, profitable "RJs"' and gave away what is essentially a few seats short of your DC9's

And yes- a -900 is a 90 seater. The extra space is used for a very profitable first class.
by your logic Gen, it would be ok for republic and skywest to fly 737's if they were configured to 76 seats??

you guys are sellouts-

nice profit- that helps me- but don't expect to ever get a pass on leading the charge in outsourcing. Management knows you guys have no line in the sand. All they have to do is muddy the waters a bit, and add in a bit of incentives and you guys will always boil the frog to larger and larger outsourcing.

Let's see.....civilian crj pilot with a 737 type. Did you sell out by paying for training or by substandard rates at Air Tran to get your foot in the door?

And yes, the Delta pilots sold out. That doesn't make you any less of a hypocrite.

 

[waveflyer]

Well, you're missing a step. How about furloughed legacy pilot and turboprop capt before I ever stepped foot in an RJ.

My "brothers" sold out my job while I was on furlough- and I made the best of things and have more than taken care of my family and landed on my feet. Including using the furlough to start a business. I used that money to buy my type after being offered employment by SWA- but lets say I bought it years before trying to pad my resume?. An INDIVIDUAL making an INDIVIDUAL CHOICE is a much different thing than a collective group making a choice that other COLLECTIVE groups will have to work under. I absolutely hate outsourcing, and what you miss is outsourcing takes a legacy pilot vote to happen. This isn't a which comes first- a vote or a pilot who accepts a job. We know the vote comes first. And those votes are neither simple nor un-worthy of critique.

But profitability only helps our case against outsourcing and I'm very happy to see these numbers put up by delta.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Hey Wavehole....

When you get done with your next trip, head back down to South Beach and hand out free Oral favors so you can get your dignity back you PAy for type hypocrite!!

 

[Count Dracula]

You all are your own worst enemies. What goes around comes around. There are so many knives in each other's backs in this business, you all should tape a commercial for CASE or BUCK. Pathetic......

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

You all are your own worst enemies. What goes around comes around. There are so many knives in each other's backs in this business, you all should tape a commercial for CASE or BUCK. Pathetic......

Thanks George Will...

Glad you chimed in!

 

[scoreboardII]

I prefer a good Buck folder, Case quality is down lately.

Ladies, until we act like we are all pilots doing the same thing, demand the same thing, management has us in the barrel.

 

[Turtle21]

Thanks for the rape and the pay cut Delta.

Sincerely,

Endeavor Pilots (Pinnacle)

Do Pinnacle pilots have an ATP? <<sarcasm.

Yes ALPA set up a scam from the beginning. All pilots are equal except some pilots are more equal than other pilots. Whoopee, some ATPs get paid ten times as much as other ATPs in the same profession despite a "national union". WTF?

Where the h#ll is Rez and PCL so they can tell us how this makes sense.

 

[Turtle21]

Twisted Mind? Really?

Somebody didn't hug you or something growing up?

Do tell these opportunities I have had?
I have luckily never been furloughed but did lose my pension.....but love my job!! I don't blame other people for my life's choices. Nothings fair, Then again, I am dealing with people like you and XJ who are part of the problem with this world, who want it all handed to them and then when it doesn't pan out, blame somebody else.

Nice hit and run Twisted....so hike up your skirt and join the debate instead of calling somebody a whiner (ooooOOooooo) or PM me if you are scared. This oughta be good!

Enough of this "my choices" crap. Professional pilots have ATPs, and yes to get that ATP "their choices" and hard work are about 95% the reason they earned it.

But a pilots career progression is about 95% luck, timing, and circumstances, and no body should be crowing about their "choices" until they are retired, and by then they will know its only the inexperienced and immature who crow about their choices. I am sick of pilots that are equal professionals looking down or up at others as if their "choice" of employer means more than a fart.

 

[PuffDriver]

Well, you're missing a step. How about furloughed legacy pilot and turboprop capt before I ever stepped foot in an RJ.

My "brothers" sold out my job while I was on furlough- and I made the best of things and have more than taken care of my family and landed on my feet. Including using the furlough to start a business. I used that money to buy my type after being offered employment by SWA- but lets say I bought it years before trying to pad my resume?. An INDIVIDUAL making an INDIVIDUAL CHOICE is a much different thing than a collective group making a choice that other COLLECTIVE groups will have to work under. I absolutely hate outsourcing, and what you miss is outsourcing takes a legacy pilot vote to happen. This isn't a which comes first- a vote or a pilot who accepts a job. We know the vote comes first. And those votes are neither simple nor un-worthy of critique.

But profitability only helps our case against outsourcing and I'm very happy to see these numbers put up by delta.

You can color it any way you want, but Delta pilots "selling out" is really no different than pilots joining a lower paid airline to get their foot in the door or paying for your job via a type rating. (you can deny pft all you want, but we all know what is going on)

Chastising Delta pilots collective behavior, while defending yours makes you a hypocrite. Individual choices are much easier to make, and control. Trying to get 14K pilots to turn down a 21% raise is much more difficult.

BTW, I am not knocking you for taking care of your family. There are much more important things in life than flying airplanes. People will find ways to take care of themselves, especially in this business. Some fly maximum, some sue, some scab, some call in sick to do their "other job", some cheat, some just do their jobs and go home. There is no such thing as a "collective group" anymore. Those days died long ago.

I could go on an on about the SWA pilot group, and how they continuously screw the entire piloting profession. You could make a case that everyone is working more, making less, and lacking retirement due to SWA pilots hanging on the bar since their inception, but then IO become you. Griping about not getting your love, how your pilot group screwed you, how the Delta pilots screwed you, and everything else just makes you a hypocrite. I will give you credit, your story is unique--just like everyone else's.