Would SKYW inc trade ASA PBS and dumping ALPA for 1 list?

[Erlanger]

Why is PBS tied to this? I bitched about PBS until it was voted in at my airline. It is the absolutely best thing that has ever happened from a scheduling perspective. Substantially more days off (19+) and consistent 95 hour lines

I agree 100%. This PBS is really awesome. I think pilots don't want it because if it's something the company wants then it must be bad. While it's good for the company, it's great for the pilots.

Since having this I've hardly used my vacation time, I have more time off, my QOL has gone up, I have much, much more flexibility, you can bid the cities you want to layover in or avoid, pick your show and release times (it's great for commuters), buddy bid or avoid a crewmember and I still fly the same hours as before there was PBS. And there's probably another 50 parameters you can enter into PBS for your bid. But you also have to be reasonable on what you can bid at your senority level.

 

[SLUF4]

and what seniority are you erlanger?

 

[Gr82Aviate]

I agree 100%. This PBS is really awesome. I think pilots don't want it because if it's something the company wants then it must be bad. While it's good for the company, it's great for the pilots.

Since having this I've hardly used my vacation time, I have more time off, my QOL has gone up, I have much, much more flexibility, you can bid the cities you want to layover in or avoid, pick your show and release times (it's great for commuters), buddy bid or avoid a crewmember and I still fly the same hours as before there was PBS. And there's probably another 50 parameters you can enter into PBS for your bid. But you also have to be reasonable on what you can bid at your senority level.

PBS sucks even if you're senior, unless you're in a large domicile with a large selection of good pairings...being senior means squat with PBS if all the pairings in your domicile are lousy!!!

 

[Erlanger]

PBS sucks even if you're senior, unless you're in a large domicile with a large selection of good pairings...being senior means squat with PBS if all the pairings in your domicile are lousy!!!

So the "other" way was better? You tell me what would be better then. Nothing is ever perfect but PBS sure was better then the old way regardless of senority, base size and quality of the pairings. The positives with PBS outway the negatives.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

So the "other" way was better? You tell me what would be better then. Nothing is ever perfect but PBS sure was better then the old way regardless of senority, base size and quality of the pairings. The positives with PBS outway the negatives.

The "other" way I used to get 18 and 19 days off every month with 90 to 97 hour lines...with PBS this month I have the same days off as a reserve line holder in order to get 94 hours credit! You do the math...?

 

[Erlanger]

and what seniority are you erlanger?

Not sure that matters. Everyone holds so dearly their senority when it comes to jumpseating or non-reving, upgrades and transitions, furloughs, domicile transfers, bonuses and 401k contributions, vacation and sicktime accrual, etc. God forbid if senority isn't honored properly in those cases. Why should schedule bidding be any different?

 

[Erlanger]

The "other" way I used to get 18 and 19 days off every month with 90 to 97 hour lines...with PBS this month I have the same days off as a reserve line holder in order to get 94 hours credit! You do the math...?

Are you Skywest? If you are then your schedule is so we don't have to furlough any pilots. Suck it up for a while till things get back to normal or should we throw our fellow pilots under the bus? BTW, under the "other" way the schedules would of changed to suit these times anyway. You'd still then have the same schedule, hours and days off.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Are you Skywest? If you are then your schedule is so we don't have to furlough any pilots. Suck it up for a while till things get back to normal or should we throw our fellow pilots under the bus? BTW, under the "other" way the schedules would of changed to suit these times anyway. You'd still then have the same schedule, hours and days off.

Not true, there are guys far junior to me in other domicles getting far better pairings on a regular basis! I'd be happy to "suck it up" if we all did so equally, but that is not the case. The pairings for us have been sliding in quality ever since the switch to PBS, it has little to do with "these times". Have you been getting lines with either almost the same days off as pre PBS hard lines but the same pay as reserve, or the flip side of trying to keep your pay close to what it used to be and getting the same days off as a guy on reserve?

 

[Speedtape]

ASA is shrinking, Skywest is not. ASA = 1500 active pilots, Skywest = 2800 active pilots. The Skywest pilot group has grown by hundreds over the past 3 years. The ASA pilot group has shrunk. ASA has 140 pilots on furlough, Skwest has 0 pilots on furlough. ASA(Skywest, Inc.) has lost contract rights with Delta on 20 crj 200You failed to mention that they gained 10, 900's ((lost 1000 seats, gained 760 netting -240 seats) aircraft. Skywest has not lost contract rights(Skywest, Inc lost) on Delta aircraft.(HUH?) From a business standpoint, ASA is giant pain in the ass(MONEY MAKER) to Skywest INC. Wake up!(I'm awake, but not brain dead) Ask US Air pilots if ALPA is useful...(There will be another ALPA vote in the near future and that will answer your question.)[/QUOTE]

What Skywest are you referring to in your post? Skywest, Inc. has lost almost everything that ASA has lost. ASA has shrunk because flight hours have been reduced in ATL--it's the economy!

Skywest has not furloughed--yet. Delta has not furloughed--yet. It may be because they are expecting a couple of airline failures in the next several months and want to be prepared to exploit the opportunity. However, if that does not happen, you will see furloughs.


I'm glad you brought up the US Air pilots. They demanded arbitration, and arbitration they got. Unfortunately, they didn't like the outcome. An Arbitrator's ruling is final. They will never overturn it.

ALPA cannot be blamed for the ruling. If anyone can be blamed, it would be the negotiators from both pilot groups who could not find common ground which forced their fate into the hands of someone who has no vested interest in their futures or the outcome. The representatives of the respective pilot groups lost control of the process--through their own doing or undoing, depending how one wants to look at it.

Before it's over, USAir Pilots will be back in ALPA. My bet is that it will happen within the next 3 years.

 

[JumpersAway]

There are a few key points I'd like to throw into the pot here, that I think are getting overlooked......

Firstly, if ASA were going away, I think management would be far less delicate in their approach. I think it would be done with an ax, and they would just start transferring airframes without regard for the contract. Right now, as it stands, the contract is in place and management has every intention of abiding by it- especially with regard to the no furlough clause- as was stated by SH in recurrent ground a couple weeks ago. If we were going away, it would be done now, without regard...........

PBS- I don't care what method determines my schedule, provided I can still snag the a couple extra weeks off in conjunction with my vacation time. If management wanted PBS, they would simply make the lines so bad, you'd be crying for it. Can you say "Five Day Trips"........ The company builds the pairings, so they effectively control the end game. PBS only makes sense with a big hiring swell- being able to do more with less.

Being called a scab without crossing a picket line is a little harsh. I will also agree that there is an appropriate way to disagree with ALPA- how bout' through a letter or a face to face meeting with the MEC/LEC. They may work for ALPA, but they work there for US. If you don't like something, or have a concern, bring it up at a meeting. It's entirely possible that when you are done, you won't be the most popular pilot in the room, but sometimes leadership and dissention come at a cost.

I also think that we are putting the cart before the horse here. Alot of people see our furloughs and point to SkyWest and wonder "Why not them?". The circus isn't over yet, and it's entirely possible they too, will come out battered and bruised following the airline downturn. They are already poising to furlough through various offerings. This fall will be the tell all. As far as SkyWest in Atlanta- I expect to see them here for a month or two, then they will be off to their side of the Mississippi, and we will continue to maintain the status quo.

Once again, I'm thinking that a lot of our future here, has to do with Pinnicle and their contract. We all need to be informed on this, and watching to see how this plays out.