Would SKYW inc trade ASA PBS and dumping ALPA for 1 list?

FishandFly

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Sounds like a good idea to me.

I am not anti-alpa, but as I see it alpa will not be nearly as beneficial to us in the coming years as would be simply teaming up with skywest.

It is one thing to get tossed around a bit on contract issues, but we all know that it's going to be getting bad for us.

By the way. This is not the place for skyw guys to complain about how this won't or shouldn't happen. Quite frankly, and ironically, you don't really have a say in this.
 

USCtrojan

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Sounds like a good idea to me.

I am not anti-alpa, but as I see it alpa will not be nearly as beneficial to us in the coming years as would be simply teaming up with skywest.

It is one thing to get tossed around a bit on contract issues, but we all know that it's going to be getting bad for us.

By the way. This is not the place for skyw guys to complain about how this won't or shouldn't happen. Quite frankly, and ironically, you don't really have a say in this.
For ASA to lose ALPA right now, they'd lose all the Contractual protections as well. There's no way anyone would go for it, unless Uncle Jerry were to do it first and force a representational vote. Otherwise it's just "the word" of an airline CEO. That's how I see it anyway.

Trojan
 

pipejockey

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Otherwise it's just "the word" of an airline CEO.
Trojan
Could there be anything more useless than the word of an airline CEO? They have less character than Lucifer himself!! They are the lowest form of life this planet has ever seen! Lower than the single cell organisms that were in Earth's primordial ooze billions of years ago.
 

sweptback

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If you believe that this is an option, then make it happen. Don't post here and expect anything to happen other than to tip management off to your strategy.
 

Speedtape

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Sounds like a good idea to me.

I am not anti-alpa, but as I see it alpa will not be nearly as beneficial to us in the coming years as would be simply teaming up with skywest.

Explain those benefits.

It is one thing to get tossed around a bit on contract issues, but we all know that it's going to be getting bad for us.
Are you saying the sky is falling? I don't think the facts support it. "WE" means all inclusive. We all don't know what the future holds, but it's definitely tied to the economy and how it affects our industry. We are actually performing pretty well as a Company--given the conditions. We all may have to disagree on what will happen in the future, and whether it's bad for us. I don't think things will be bad, in fact, when the economy turns around, I think things are going to look great again.

By the way. This is not the place for skyw guys to complain about how this won't or shouldn't happen. Quite frankly, and ironically, you don't really have a say in this.
I would have to disagree with this statement. Skywest pilots have a stake in what happens at ASA, as long as we are owned by Inc., and ASA Pilots have a stake in what happens at Skywest. We are connected, just not in the way that you wish--and maybe that is not a bad thing for either group.

Giving up ALPA is not an option for ASA Pilots. Our contract would no longer be enforceable, because ALPA is a party to the contract. I do not want to give up my work rules or the protections provided by it. It protects Our (the WE part) jobs.
 

FishandFly

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I don't think I'm smart enough to have thought of this before alpa and skywest management have thought of it. If you list off each groups bargaining chips that are still held, these are top few.

So, asa guys, why don't we do it? Skywest pilots clearly think they have it better than us. I argued for quite some time that they were wrong, but turns out we are getting the short end of the stick and will continue to indefinetely.
 

Speedtape

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I don't think I'm smart enough to have thought of this before alpa and skywest management have thought of it. If you list off each groups bargaining chips that are still held, these are top few.

So, asa guys, why don't we do it? Skywest pilots clearly think they have it better than us. I argued for quite some time that they were wrong, but turns out we are getting the short end of the stick and will continue to indefinetely.
Maybe, you applied and were hired at the wrong airline.
However, I think that this is a pretty good place to work, better than most. What short end of the stick are you getting? Maybe, it's the short end you chose.

Maybe, you should go back to fishing.
 

FishandFly

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Speedtape, in the scope of this size of transition I would make an educated guess that the amount of money saved by skywest inc. would be substantial enough that transitioning to a SAPA type of union, and decent replacement contract, would be a small part of the puzzle.

Besides, how are we going to do in the next contract negotiations anyway? Asking for payraises while our guys on the street is not going to happen. PBS is going to get shoved down our throats whether we like it or not eventually, and we'll still be losing our flying to skywest on skywest inc.'s whim.

Here's the big picture in my mind. Skywest Inc. is the best thing that has happened to ASA in it's history. (I can vouch for it's recent history).

The role skywest is currently holding us at is nothing more than "sellable asset". Maintaining a position as a sellable asset is not the company I hope to be a part of in the long term.
 

FishandFly

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Maybe, you applied and were hired at the wrong airline.
However, I think that this is a pretty good place to work, better than most. What short end of the stick are you getting? Maybe, it's the short end you chose.

Maybe, you should go back to fishing.
Maybe you should attempt to address the issue instead of reverting to your 11th grade debate team techniques.
 

PBRstreetgang

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Yeah,
Go ahead and decertify, give Uncle Rico all the aces, you think you have it bad now? The only good thing I can say is, I am glad he is your problem, not ours. The worst corn holing we ever had was from him and Tony F. He is the Bad News Bears and your worst nightmare all wrapped up in a cute little Napoleon Dynamite kind of package.
PBR
 

sweptback

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The role skywest is currently holding us at is nothing more than "sellable asset". Maintaining a position as a sellable asset is not the company I hope to be a part of in the long term.
Here is the fundamental disconnect in your logic. SkyWest, Inc. may not think of ASA as a long term asset. Maybe they like the flexibility of spinning off ASA as needed? How would the pilots change that position, and would changing their position even be an option?
 

FishandFly

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Sweptback,
I have no idea whether it would work, but I am certain of two things. We would be better off if considered all one team, and our position right now (furloughing/cutting back flying/downgrading/losing east coast flying/ pbs on the table/very dim near future for 50 seat jets in the eyes of delta/overall industry position / possibility of being sold off again, this time to a bad company) puts us within reach of making it happen on both sides.

I'm not saying that everything at asa sucks. Quite frankly my lifestyle has been great, but Skywest is one of the best companies in the country. It's not going to get any better than this.
 

USCtrojan

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Could there be anything more useless than the word of an airline CEO? They have less character than Lucifer himself!! They are the lowest form of life this planet has ever seen! Lower than the single cell organisms that were in Earth's primordial ooze billions of years ago.
Not that I would lump Jerry Atkin into that mold, but that's the point I was and am making. SkyWest Inc. will do whatever is best for itself, it doesn't matter what any pilots or collection of pilots think or wants. I've spoken to many, many SkyWest Mgrs on my commute, and they all say the same exact thing....."When it makes financial sense to Jerry, he'll merge 'em. Union/Non Union doesn't matter, if it's financially beneficial to Inc. it'll happen." Makes sense, Pilots, ALPA, etc. do not matter in the affairs of business. Like it or not, we're jellyfish flowing with the tide, for the most part. Best we can do is provide an awesome product at a great price.

Trojan
 

FishandFly

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That's exactly it though. ALPA and PBS directly effect the bottom line of Skywest don't they? I know that both items have a direct impact on our quality of life, but I am just to the point of thinking that as a company we need to lock ourselves in with Skywest, which is likely one of the best airlines in history instead of continuing on the path of being the ugly stepchild.

Also, all you single guys should already be signing a petition. Just think of the flight attendants that would be coming out here.
 

pipejockey

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Maybe, you applied and were hired at the wrong airline.
However, I think that this is a pretty good place to work, better than most. What short end of the stick are you getting? Maybe, it's the short end you chose.

Maybe, you should go back to fishing.
I think we should enlist the services of the woman in speedtapes avatar and several of her friends, and send them out on a mission to destroy every airline CEO in the country by brute force.
 

USCtrojan

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KolobWestwind
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That's exactly it though. ALPA and PBS directly effect the bottom line of Skywest don't they? I know that both items have a direct impact on our quality of life, but I am just to the point of thinking that as a company we need to lock ourselves in with Skywest, which is likely one of the best airlines in history instead of continuing on the path of being the ugly stepchild.

Also, all you single guys should already be signing a petition. Just think of the flight attendants that would be coming out here.
OneList is something I've always been for. As the cliche goes, united we stand...Things are happening. They may not happen as you expect or on the timeline you desire. Don't go chicken little on me if things don't happen when or how you expect. As others have....

Trojan
 

PCL_128

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That's exactly it though. ALPA and PBS directly effect the bottom line of Skywest don't they?
ALPA only affects Skywest's bottom line because ALPA demands better pay and work rules. Getting rid of ALPA only helps the company's bottom line if you also lose the work rules and the pay. Are you prepared to give up everything in your contract? (Not that this is a serious discussion, anyway, because you can't just negotiate away the bargaining agent.)
 

sweptback

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(Not that this is a serious discussion, anyway, because you can't just negotiate away the bargaining agent.)
You also can't negotiate for something that's not for sale.
 

FightingIrish

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This is a big discussion within the ASA ALPA inner circle right now, and there are two camps forming. There is a lot of worry about the upcoming election and the new Pinnacle contract. ALPA told ASA that a single list wasn't attainable, yet now Pinnacle achieved it. They also seem to have pay that is less than ASA, and no rigs. That puts ASA at an even bigger dissadvantage.

There are many here at ASA that don't want to become the next regional victim in the portfolio game. We are getting tired of some of ALPA's claims and games. We held the line here at ASA, and now this comes at Pinnacle. Many of us want ALPA, but we are getting tired of trying to justify what they do, while we suffer as the high cost operator.

I don't want to get rid of ALPA. I work hard as an ALPA volunteer. I can't support ALPA if things continue the way they are. I can't publically say what I think. If I do, I will be run out of my ALPA committee position.

ASA pilots, as an ALPA insider, you need to tell the leadership that you tired of the status quo. You need to challenge them. If you don't , nothing will change.
 
S

sunlitpath

Measure it this way. If Skywest continues to grow and ASA continues to shrink, then it will be time to consider a different course. We must do what is in the interest of our pilot group, regardless of antiquated allegiances to any union.
 
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