Would SKYW inc trade ASA PBS and dumping ALPA for 1 list?

[FightingIrish]

Regional pilots cannot negotiate for their mainline flying. That is the purvue of the regional management with the mainline management within the confines of whatever scope the mainline pilots negotiated or didnt negotiate for. Its not a very hard concept in my humble opinion.

Comair has it in their scope section. Look it up. How did they get it?

For argument sake, let's just say you are right. We know Jerry can and has negotiated for it. If you say ALPA can't, and we know Jerry can. Maybe we should be careful about overplaying our perceived power as a union and form a mutually beneficial partnership with Jerry.

To Jumpers point regarding Pinnacle. He is right. Initial reports in the "inner circle" is that it is less than ASA with a single list between Colgan/Pinnacle. If that is the case, then as Jumper points out, we will need to change our plans. Some of our hard working ASA ALPA folks are not real happy about the initial reports. It will put more pressure on us. It is going to look bad when Skywest has higher rates than newly negotiated ALPA rates with a Democratic NMB and a Democratic Administration.

On the PBS issue. Both sides have agreed on most everything. The big hold up is that the union wants about half of the money savings in improvements. The company won't agree to that.

 

[73belair]

Once again, I'm thinking that a lot of our future here, has to do with Pinnicle and their contract. We all need to be informed on this, and watching to see how this plays out.

I'd put money on it being worse in a lot of areas than ASA's. 75% pay for deadhead alone is nonsense. (if that is actually in there) This will be a BIG failure for ALPA if its not at least as good as ASA's

 

[SSDD]

But you know that Rez and PCL will spin it, and justity it, and somehow blame Skywest pilots for the failure.

 

[Nevets]

I will also agree that there is an appropriate way to disagree with ALPA- how bout' through a letter or a face to face meeting with the MEC/LEC. They may work for ALPA, but they work there for US. If you don't like something, or have a concern, bring it up at a meeting. It's entirely possible that when you are done, you won't be the most popular pilot in the room, but sometimes leadership and dissention come at a cost.

Or better yet, recall them.

Comair has it in their scope section. Look it up. How did they get it?

For argument sake, let's just say you are right. We know Jerry can and has negotiated for it. If you say ALPA can't, and we know Jerry can. Maybe we should be careful about overplaying our perceived power as a union and form a mutually beneficial partnership with Jerry.

If Comair has it in their scope, its only because DALPA and their managment has allowed it through their contract AND the Comair MEC used negotiating capital to attain it. Anyways, DALPA can recapture that through negotiations without regard to Comair MEC contract language. Please provide the Comair contract language, thanks.

Just because you are union, does not mean you cannot form a mutually beneficially partnership with management, like SWA for example. In fact, I would go as far as saying that you cannot have a credible partnership of any kind unless you are represented by a bargaining agent recognized by the NMB.

 

[Bako Cap]

I will take ONE LIST, with some base fences, and ALPA (if I have to) after a certification vote for the whole group. I will gladly swallow my pride in accepting the PFT'ers that would be senior to me. ONE LIST is more important to our pilot groups that most care to acknowledge, ALPA or not.

PBS is another matter. It takes a bit to figure out how not to screw yourself, but I would never choose to go back to hard lines.

 

[JumpersAway]

I will take ONE LIST, with some base fences, and ALPA (if I have to) after a certification vote for the whole group. I will gladly swallow my pride in accepting the PFT'ers that would be senior to me. ONE LIST is more important to our pilot groups that most care to acknowledge, ALPA or not.

PBS is another matter. It takes a bit to figure out how not to screw yourself, but I would never choose to go back to hard lines.

I agree that one list should be a top priority- for both management as well as our respective pilot groups. However, since I haven't heard of rumblings from either one of the two management groups to indicate intrest from INC., I'd have to say this whole discussion is moot. As far as ALPA- I could take it or leave it, either way. I'm looking for effectiveness and the long road- don't really care how we get there, or who gets us there. I don't really have any disdain for ALPA, nor any deep felt love. Simply, it's just what we've got. However, I will say that I am more concerned with OUR happenings than I am with the National agenda and old school, outdated, method of business. I'm hoping that our dealings with Delta, and Lee Moak, are a foreshadowing of the evolution of ALPA business, and it's evolving game plan for the long term future. I suppose time will tell.

However, there is one thing I feel strongly about. If this T/A is as bad as it is forcast to be, I think that there should be some very clear, and unmistakably poinient actions taken here. After four years of talking about stopping the undercutting within DCI, if this is indeed substantially less than what ASA has, I think they ought to be tossed off the ALPA roll, as should Mesa. I also think that they ought to bask in the glory of their newfound pass privelages. If they want to "go it alone", then I think they should be allowed to do just that.

 

[BrickTop]

ALPA will never have a place at Skywest. "NEVER"

 

[buscap]

ALPA will never have a place at Skywest. "NEVER"

Never say never my friend.

 

[BrickTop]

Never say never my friend.

Perhaps someday a Union but not one soul besides the most disgruntled of our group would choose ALPA for representation.

 

[crjskipper]

from a source inside delta - the lga dci flying will come up for bid. pinnacle, comair and asa will be the three most likely candidates for most of it. he says asa is the only one without dual flying and that will more than likely kill the bid. thank you current alpa leadership.

 

[Tarzan]

I've flown the 200 and 700/900. No reason we should NOT have dual qual.

 

[sweptback]

I've flown the 200 and 700/900. No reason we should NOT have dual qual.

Tell your ALPA reps then. I'm for it, as I suppose most ASA pilots are.

It's only the super senior crowd that is against it... most of the others realize it's something that might be holding us back.

Still, regardless of dual qualification, with as many spare airplanes as we having sitting around, we should be a shoe-in for the bid, one would think.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Tell your ALPA reps then. I'm for it, as I suppose most ASA pilots are.

It's only the super senior crowd that is against it... most of the others realize it's something that might be holding us back.

Another BOLD FACED ALPA lie! ALPA made it a "safety" issue during the last negotiations....You know that as you are on the inside...I have been calling for dual qual. for years...only to be told how "dangerous" it is, and that I didn't understand because I was on the ATR.

I don't see the big deal about dual qual....I'd could do my next roundtrip in an ATR for that matter....

The ALPA reps. already know this, and the natives are growing restless...Newie and gang better get going on keeping us competitive, especially considering how bad the PNCL TA appears to be.....

 

[Speedtape]

Another BOLD FACED ALPA lie! ALPA made it a "safety" issue during the last negotiations....You know that as you are on the inside...I have been calling for dual qual. for years...only to be told how "dangerous" it is, and that I didn't understand because I was on the ATR.

I don't see the big deal about dual qual....I'd could do my next roundtrip in an ATR for that matter....
That's because you are an Aviation genius. We have alot of pilots who can't consistently pass check rides on one airplane, much less 2.

The ALPA reps. already know this, and the natives are growing restless...Newie and gang better get going on keeping us competitive, especially considering how bad the PNCL TA appears to be.....

You have an agenda. It has nothing do with dual qual. The natives are restless??? hahaha The natives are always restless.

 

[at7driver]

it seems the music player is winding down.. we need to find a chair.

 

[JoeMerchant]

You have an agenda. It has nothing do with dual qual. The natives are restless??? hahaha The natives are always restless.

Everyone has an agenda. I have one and you have one....What is my agenda? I have seen quite a few ALPA "true believers" start to have doubts...

 

[JoeMerchant]

it seems the music player is winding down.. we need to find a chair.

Very true.

 

[JumpersAway]

Dual qual isn't my favorite of ideas, but if the pinnicle TA is as bad as I hear, and it passes, it's suddenly going to look a whole lot better to me, along with PBS, unfortunately. If anyone thinks we're not going to have to change our status quo to compete with pinnicle, you're sadly mistaken. Frankly, this is going to impact us all.........

 

[sweptback]

Another BOLD FACED ALPA lie! ALPA made it a "safety" issue during the last negotiations....You know that as you are on the inside...I have been calling for dual qual. for years...only to be told how "dangerous" it is, and that I didn't understand because I was on the ATR.

I think it's funny how you obviously have me confused with somebody else, yet I continue to get you worked up. All I did on the last contract was to vote in favor of it.

Last time in negotiations, for part of it we had 2 bases, one with exclusively 700 flying, and one with 80% 200 and 20% 700 flying. That to me is a safety issue, especially if you were SLC based (RIP) and expected to fly a 200 after not flying one for months.

Now with one big base, and a spread of 66% 200s and 33% 700/900s, it's less of an issue. Everybody would have a reasonable chance of keeping current in each airplane.

It doesn't take a genius to realize that dual qual and PBS will be the company's major issues in negotiations. Since it appears the union is already being flexible on PBS, why not dual qual too?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Dual qual isn't my favorite of ideas, but if the pinnicle TA is as bad as I hear, and it passes, it's suddenly going to look a whole lot better to me, along with PBS, unfortunately. If anyone thinks we're not going to have to change our status quo to compete with pinnicle, you're sadly mistaken. Frankly, this is going to impact us all.........

You're absolutely correct. I have no big desire for PBS. Twice this year, I have been able to extend 1 week of vacation into 5 weeks. However, we have to compete in this environment....PBS and dual qual. are two ways to do this....The "intel" from the PNCL TA is that is was rushed because of a new RFP...It may be the new DAL LGA flying...