Would NetJets Strike If...?

[glasspilot]

Seriously...it's not your pond.



I've been pretty consistent in my distaste for this type of attitude.

 

[Sparse]

Smaller companies joining 1108 is a mistake. Lets say CS or Flex joins 1108, the problem is that the Teamsters will fight for those who pay the most money ie NetJets. Now I am sure most of you will bash me but look at the regionals. ALPA signed off on Mesa's BS contract and allowed so many other regionals to suffer while all the time fighting for only the Majors. Why? That is because the Majors brought in 82% of ALPA dues while the regionals and "others" brought in the other 18%. So NetJets will pay the most compared to a smaller fractional so the Teamsters will always jump for NetJets while they allow Flex or CS to suffer.
This comes from spending years working for 2 unionized carriers. After all the money I paid in to ALPA all I got was a stupid magazine and 3 grievances that were never heard.

Bailey

Duene "Worthless" Woerth signed of on termination of pilot retirements at USAIR, UAL, and Delta. How manyy paycuts has he signed off on? He's been replaced. Doesn't sound like it to me he is fighting for the majors. How many regionals have taken a 50% pay cut?

The one thing that will keep 1108 strong is to rid itself of the teamsters and be an independant union for fractional pilots. Second they shouldn't ever get an office in Washington DC.

 

[FLYLOW22]

All unions are the same whether they are 1108 or ALPA. You guys at NetJets are still in the Honeymoon phase just wait until after a couple more years you will see that it is not all cracked up to what you think.

Bailey

I beg to differ. All Unions that funcion under the RLA use the same tools to achieve their goals, however, the main difference depends on the following:

1) level of pilot APATHY
2) SKILL of leadership
3) UNITY of pilot group
4) POLITICAL forces at work
5) THINGS that the other side wants

All of this equals BARGAINING POWER brought to the table for Section 6. Many 121 carriers and ALL of the regionals lack very much (if any) BARGAINING POWER due to the nature of things. Just the way it is. Sorry. I didn't make the rules.

The Union will not "do" anything for any one pilot necessarily. The Union will (should) act in accordance with the desires of the membership and the law.

Sitting around in the cockpit conducting a Union crab-fest will accomplish absolutely nothing yet it is the method that most pilots choose to vent their frustrations. The CVR erases all concerns within 2 hours.

I wonder if you have volunteered for any Union positions during your professional tenure as a Union pilot.

I wish the other Unions the best and I support their efforts to improve pay and working conditions for their memberships. I do not agree with many of their actions but I support them as a fellow Trade Unionist.

Don't Democracies just suck sometimes. Wouldn't it be great if management could just call all of the shots with no possibility of input from those in the trenches?? YIKES!!!!

 

[FLYLOW22]

RNObased, You missed my point. I would fight if I had to, but do to our company being ahead of the game on employee management relastions, I don't have to fight and that feels good!! I've already been down the road fighting Union against management. That's why I came to CS. To better my quality of life and stop fighting a loosing battle. The difference between CS and other fractionals, our management makes good on all their promises without us having to put up a billboard in TEB or write up airplane left and right. I have actually seen an Ultra pilot jumping on the stairs until they broke and then wrote it up. That sounds like one happy employee there!

Good luck with CS! There was a time when NJA went through it's "Golden Age". As the company grew and employee numbers were assigned to people who used to have names it was clear that priorites shifted (big time) towards profits. And why not? That's what companies do, right? Make money? The only problem that occurs over time is that fact that in between management and profits stands a significant factor... you.

So good luck with CS. Enjoy the next several years of good management. As they realize that money can be saved by elimination of certain nicities and necessities you may change your opinion. You may not.

History is replete on the life cycle of a company as it relates to Unionized Labor and CS is no different. It would be nice to live in the "Golden Age" again. I'm jealous but I'm also happy that I don't have the ejection from Eden ahead of me anymore.

I know what the score is for my situation.

 

[netjetwife]

We're just here to amuse you oh exalted one. Please forgive me for blemishing your pure and holy existence with my petulance.

When one reads my whole post, which was conveniently not quoted... it is apparent that I was supportive--not snobbish--and was trying to make it clear that no one knows what pilot groups want until the ballots are counted. I said--Perhaps all the smaller fracs could band together on their own? They would each identify more with the other groups that were closely matched to themselves--wouldn't they? That's assuming that they didn't want to be a small fish in the big NJ pond. Certainly, there's a lot to be considered by all involved, and I think it should be put to a vote each time. I apologize to anyone that found the small fish analogy offensive. That definitely was not my intention. I was only trying to recognize that some pilots have posted that they like belonging to a smaller pilot group. By now, if a frac pilot doesn't understand that I'm supportive of all pilot groups in the industry, it is because s/he refuses to acknowledge that fact...

I find nothing amusing in the plight of frac pilots being underpaid/overworked. If my posts are ever unclear, I will explain myself further. Please ask rather than assigning a meaning that was never intended. NJW

 

[glasspilot]

NJW:

I replied to the tone of a specific phrase and edited to highlight that phrase. It illustrates how you look down on the rest of the fractional operators. Just because you claim the argument is for the betterment of smaller fractionals it doesn't make it any less insulting to hear.

It's like if I said, "I believe we need to fight poverty. We should get every lazy, filthy, low income drain on society a job."

Maybe your little "NJ pond" comment wasn't as extreme as that but I hope you see my point. You've posted variations many times and it's clear to me that you see NJ as the rightful King of the fractional empire and the rest of us are the scourge that annoy with the only hope of salvation being to join 1108...and pay dues.

You mentioned that I conveniently left out the rest of your post...well you conveniently left out my 2nd post where I turned off the sarcasm and voiced my concern.

 

[FLYLOW22]

NJW:

I replied to the tone of a specific phrase and edited to highlight that phrase. It illustrates how you look down on the rest of the fractional operators.

I know NJW personally. I have worked with her. I can assure you that she is a stand up person.

What your point illustrates is that even Abraham Lincoln could type messages on a message board an dbe percieved as though he were Saddam Hussein.

The method of communication is very limited in that it shows NO non verbals and offers very little timely feedback.

NJW is passionate about the plight of many fractionals out there because we were there just about 1 year ago. She knows what it feels like to be stepped on and she disliked it. Many of us here disliked it.

We channeled our energy towards doing something useful to get us out of those circumstances. Today, IBT 1108 channels it's energy into enabling all of it's members the tools to help themselves.

Why? Because we can and it's the right thing to do.

 

[netjetwife]

To the contrary, Glass, I read both posts. As I have never claimed it to be my "pond" I felt that the 2nd post also unfairly characterized my expressions of support for the pilots to control the direction of their careers. I have also cheered on advisory councils and encouraged pilots to use whatever means they have available to further their goals.

The only thing clear about your interpretation of my posts is the fact that you are determined to apply meanings that have not been expressed nor implied. I have been both publicly (in posts) and privately (in PMs) thanked for offering frac pilots and their families encouragement and support. I regularly point out that the job duties are so similar that it is only fair that all frac pilots receive comparable pay and benefit packages. On this thread I recognized that the other frac groups may not want to join 1108 and I support their right to form their own collective bargaining unit.

In all fairness, it can't be denied that I'm one of the more respectful and mannerly posters on the board, and that is obvious to all long-time readers and posters. Thus, it is obvious to me that we will just have to agree to disagree on your opinion of my posts. That said, please leave my attitude and intentions entirely up to me. It should be evident that I'm quite capable of speaking for myself... Again, I invite any who are unsure of my meaning in my posts to ask me directly for an explanation which I will gladly supply.

 

[netjetwife]

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Flylow. Your interpretation is the correct one... I began posting here in the middle of the NJ contract battle. I complained bitterly about the NJA pay and working conditions, and as soon as pilots from other fracs pointed out that they were similarly underpaid/overworked, I extended my support to them, as well.

On a personal note, FL22, good luck with your decision. I know it's not easy and there is much to consider.

 

[glasspilot]

whatever

 

[netjetwife]

....I have actually seen an Ultra pilot jumping on the stairs until they broke and then wrote it up. That sounds like one happy employee there!

Giving that pilot the benefit of the doubt (only fair), there was probably already some damage you were unaware of. Were you standing there next to him? I've seen my husband test (by jumping on) deck boards, steps, etc to decide if it needs repaired/replaced. The rationale is that it's better for the host to ascertain the damage than an unsuspecting guest (or pax) to be injured. Appearances can be deceiving and we should reserve judgment until we have all of the facts.

 

[pilotpat]

Wow. I find it quite disheartening that this thread is still around, and even more so that people simply cannot move beyond their own pettiness. I point to no one in particular, as even I left a mean spirited message for Bogart, and I wish now I hadn't done so in that way. But 6 pages of dribble. Bickering. You'd think this was high school. Things always seem to end up with My Frac is better than Your Frac. Who cares? Maybe only the ones turned down for employment at My Frac, or those who didn't even get an interview at Your Frac are bickering even more......But in the end ~ Who cares? Dumb question for a thread, and even worse for the fact that people attempted to answer it and got bashed anyway. Sad.

I don't work for NJ (yet). I don't work for CS. I don't work for Avantair. However, I hope when I do get out of the 135 biz and into the frac's, that I won't worry so much about what's happening over at Brand X and instead focus my attention on doing the job and looking forward to being home with my family a little more.

My name is pilotpat and I endorse this message. imp:

 

[FLYLOW22]

whatever

Ok then.

 

[FLYLOW22]

RLA Process

Bogart,

You find in this RLA process where NJ 1108 can sympathy strike with FLOPS 1108 and you will anser your own question for yourself.

I think the answer you will find is no.

I need to clarify that last... The answer is no... UNLESS authorized by the court system. There are also other legal options that would equate to a sympathy strike as well.

 

[dash_trash]

Duane Worthless

Duene "Worthless" Woerth signed of on termination of pilot retirements at USAIR, UAL, and Delta. How manyy paycuts has he signed off on? He's been replaced. Doesn't sound like it to me he is fighting for the majors. How many regionals have taken a 50% pay cut?

At my previous regional I took a 43% paycut, and got hit with loss of pension, retroactive pay cuts, retro pre diem cuts, retro health care increases, and the list could go on.

These were part of the terms regarding a concessionary contract as dictated by the current CEO of Flight Options and signed off by Worthless at ALPO. It wasn't only the "majors" taking hits!

And now I have a 300%+ increase in health care benefits to look at thanks to Mr. Scheeringa. I'm sure this is only the first of many items to be looked at by the company. This is only one of the many reasons we are happy to have the 1108 working with us to help with the future of Options.

I personally don't think the leadership of the 1108 would take the same position ALPO has taken regarding the smaller companies. This is a fairly small sector of the aviation industry, and it is in everyone's best interest to keep the bar rising.

just my $.02