Would NetJets Strike If...?

[RNObased]

Ok. I'll take the hook. Could someone step up and answer the dam question. It seems legitimate to me. Not being a union member I may be missing out on what the "brotherhood" is about. Does it mean that you have to be condenscending and snide? Have you dues paying brothers lost your consideration toward other? Oh! By the way. If one frax does strike and say all under the Brotherhood strikes as well, do you expect me, Mr. 135 pilot, to buy you a cup of coffee too? So a simple yes or no to the opening question would be the considerate thing to do. Bashing the guy for asking just doesn't make much sense to me. Besides. It seems to pose a new subject for all the Frax.

AJ

Lonestar,
If you knew more about Bogart, you would probably join in a the snide comments. Believe me he deserves everything he gets and then some.

 

[Humphreybogart]

What would YOU do if you happen to meet a striking Fractional pilot as you're entering an FBO?

I would look at them and feel sorry that they are losing out on a good salary for their families because they choose to fight a losing battle with managment by participating in a union. I'll just smile, keep on flying and collect my salary!

 

[netjetwife]

Oh plleeeaasssseee, Bogart.... Obviously, if the frac pilots had a good salary they wouldn't be on strike. Not to mention that the pilots with the best deal in the fractional industry are the 1108 Union pilots.

 

[DO-82 driver]

You know something Bogey, I kind of expected that answer from you. Its the pilot's fault and management is not to blame.

The guy is on strike because he obviously enjoys it.....NOT

He's on strike because he wants to stand up for himself....amongst other things, its a matter of pride and self respect.

I guess you wouldn't know too much about that. I remember seeing guys that have the same philosophy when walking the picket line in PHL back in 1989 for Eastern. They were in uniform....but they were going to work.

 

[gunfyter]

Sierra Madre

Yeah,

Bogey's just like Fred C. Dobbs in Treasure of Sierra Madre ...

All your Gold will get blown away in the wind if you turn your back on your fellow workers while still collecting all benefits.

 

[glasspilot]

Oh plleeeaasssseee, Bogart.... Obviously, if the frac pilots had a good salary they wouldn't be on strike. Not to mention that the pilots with the best deal in the fractional industry are the 1108 Union pilots.

Couple of points here...

1.) It's not obvious that pilots wouldn't be on strike if they had a good salary. Look at FedEx pilots this past Feb. They didn't strike but they were doing the informational picketing in Mem. Already argued in this thread as a precursor to a strike. (prior to NMB cool off and release). My point is that no matter how much you make you want more.

2.) For the life of me I don't know how you would define "struck work" in the frac business. At airlines it's defined as the routes (city pairs) that the striking airline flew prior to the strike that you did not. ie, if your airline flew DEN to LAX prior to the strike you would continue to fly it. If your airline didn't then it would be flying struck work to pick it up after another airline went on strike.

Well, we don't fly city pairs. How else could you define struck work? By owners perhaps. Refuse to pick up owners that bail the striking company? 2 problems there; 1. Pilots have no way of controlling that and 2. The company has no way of doing that even if they wanted to. (Frac Companies don't share owner lists)

So, how do you define struck work in a Frac? That is the real debate to the original question. I doubt the Teamsters has an answer to that one.

 

[TORCH67]

Bogey is just baiting people here. He doesn't care what anybody has to say at all. I'm sure he is laughing about the stupid posts that follow his flame bait.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Bogart shows his idiocy once again in this flamebait.

To answer the question, though: if FlOps pilots went on strike, no, NJA pilots would not also strike. This is exactly the same situation if the Delta ALPA pilots went on strike, United's ALPA pilots would not. Nor would any other ALPA pilots.

The question about the definition of "struck work" in the fractionals is a good one. We would not have the same problems as the airline pilots, for the reasons glasspilot mentions. We would have very little chance of actually flying "struck work." Using FlOps as an example, if their owners came to NJA because of the strike, well, that's the goal of the strikers in the first place - to financially pressure the comany into negotiating a better deal. So no, that would not be struck work, since them coming here does not help FlOps management break the union.

Crossing "picket lines" is another issue to be dealt with. If FlOps pilots are on strike and picketing an FBO from which I am taking NJA pax, if I go to work, "crossing the line," I am still not a "scab," since I am not flying FlOps planes or owners. Again, once the owners leave the FlOps program and become NJA owners, they are no longer part of the equation.

There may be an argument that we should refuse to use any Raytheon facilities, but that's stretching it a bit, and may violate the RLA.

Since you asked.

 

[RTRHD]

Not to mention that the pilots with the best deal in the fractional industry are the 1108 Union pilots.

WRONG

 

[RNObased]

WRONG

Ok, I'll bite. Who has the best deal in the frational industry??

 

[RTRHD]

Ok, I'll bite. Who has the best deal in the frational industry??

:beer: Another little frac that just operates Gulfstreams.

 

[GVFlyer]

:beer: Another little frac that just operates Gulfstreams.

Yep, if I was going to a fractional NJI would be the only one I'd consider.

GV

 

[flyjetspeed]

:beer: Another little frac that just operates Gulfstreams.

I'll second that! Or third!

 

[DO-82 driver]

Just out of curiosity, how do you guys feel about the Falcon 7X's going to NJE and having those folks do more trans-Atlantic and long haul flights out of Europe?

 

[Lone Star 31a]

Lonestar,
If you knew more about Bogart, you would probably join in a the snide comments. Believe me he deserves everything he gets and then some.

I don't know Bogart from anyone else here. When I see a question that has legitimacy to it and no serious answers to follow what would you think if you were in my shoes? So what if most of the readers here don't like Bogart. I may not like him either if I took the time to research his posts. Gotta admit though. He had a good question.

 

[gunfyter]

Its a stupid question.

Just as he intended it to be.

 

[netjetwife]

Which is why I gave a serious answer to the best of my ability. Trying to properly define "struck work" and whether or not a pilot is crossing a picket line are issues that are decided by union leadership with the aid of lawyers versed in the RLA.

Glass, a couple of counterpoints--Bogart's question dealt specifically with Flex or FLOPS pilots, not others like FedEx. Considering that those frac groups have put up with a lot for little money I don't see them striking over work conditions or issues other than pay. You imply that people are greedy and will continue to strike for higher and higher wages. I don't think well compensated pilots would do that to their families, but I do think they might be very concerned over work rules that negatively impact their QOL or a scope issue that could allow their jobs to be taken away.

I don't doubt that answers to complicated labor issues are out there, even if they aren't apparent to those of us posting here. It's a specialty of the law and unions like the Teamsters employ those lawyers for just that reason--to answer the tough questions.

RTRHD, beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder... The NJ pilots are bringing their wages up, plus they have a written contract and dedicated representation should they need it. To some that counts for a lot.

Oddly (and sadly) I didn't even think of NJI. Perhaps it is because of the perceived "us" versus "them" attitude that holds the NJI pilots aloof from lower-paid frac pilots? Do you identify with the pilots of Flex, FLOPS, NJA, etc and see them as your peers? If so, I didn't realize that. My apologies for unintentionally excluding you if you count yourself as part of their group.

 

[FRACTRASH]

Its a stupid question.

Just as he intended it to be.

I don't think it's a stupid question at all. I know Bogie, and he was wondering, as was I, what would really happen if the situation he mentioned really happened. You can't compare ALPA with the 1108. I thought the 1108 was a tighter group. When the truckers strike, they all strike no matter what company they work for. Will this happen with all the fracs (except CS of course)? From what I read here with the 1108 and NetJets, should a strike happen with Flex or Flops (should they join the 1108), NetJets would let them on their own to fend for themselves. A bunch of union blow hards you are with no spine to stick with your union brothers and sisters. Go back to the 70's and the teamsters and see how Hoffa handled them.

 

[glasspilot]

Glass, a couple of counterpoints--Bogart's question dealt specifically with Flex or FLOPS pilots, not others like FedEx. Considering that those frac groups have put up with a lot for little money I don't see them striking over work conditions or issues other than pay. You imply that people are greedy and will continue to strike for higher and higher wages. I don't think well compensated pilots would do that to their families, but I do think they might be very concerned over work rules that negatively impact their QOL or a scope issue that could allow their jobs to be taken away.

You said before and you said it again, "well paid pilots won't strike". Well, what's well paid? FedEx pilots make a TON of cash. (Even compared to the leading frac company) My point was and is that THEY were picketing just 8 months ago. Are they a different breed of pilot than us? No. You have your head wrapped around some figure of pay and say that's what's fair. Well, what if your company paid 300,000 per year in the left seat and 225,000 in the right. And at the same time the company was making money hand over fist. They couldn't burn it fast enough. All managers were high six figures, upper level managers were 1.3mil or more and all officers were over 2.3 mill per year. Trust me, the pilots would want their share....just like FedEx pilots. You need to get your preconceived notion of what "fair wage" is cause it's based on nothing.

 

[Humphreybogart]

I don't know Bogart from anyone else here. When I see a question that has legitimacy to it and no serious answers to follow what would you think if you were in my shoes? So what if most of the readers here don't like Bogart. Gotta admit though. He had a good question.

You know Lonestar, I bet you would like me. You're seeing what I'm seeing in this post, the NJ people will preach their mighty 1108, but their not willing to stand up for their brothers and sisters of the 1108 (should they decide to join). As long as everything is going smoothly, the union is great, but don't let things go south because then Flex and/Flops will be on thier own. Sounds like you don't have a very strong union, or puppets from NJ involved in the union to make it worth while. Alot of hot air from the NetJet and 1108 group.