FlyChicaga
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2002
- Posts
- 862
http://www.aviationspeakers.com/Speakers/Dave-Gwinn.html
Watch the video. Probably really fitting for the thread!
[nerd]
I try my best to use standard phraseology, particularly in Mexico and Canada. Sometimes you can get lax though; it happens. I think more important than what you say is how you say it though... lately I've heard some terrible mumbling, where you are sitting there thinking to yourself, "WTF did he just say?"
I am always impressed by ATC. 95% of the time, they are clear, concise, and use proper phraseology. Plus, 80% of the time they are 100 times more quick witted than we pilots will ever be!
After studying human factors, and taking some courses related to communication (one taught by a former Finnish ATCer), I've seen the light in regards to proper phraseology. Both in communication between crew and ATC.
Twice in the past six months I've seen situations where someone has answered for our aircraft with a "roger" without callsign, which quite possibly could have turned into a runway incursion. Once we were number two for departure, and ATC asked us if we were ready. I said "affirmative" and gave our callsign. We were cleared into position and hold. We began to taxi across the hold short lines, and the captain and I both said "wait" at the same time, since the airplane in position wasn't moving. Then we were given takeoff clearance, and I hesitated a second to respond. The aircraft in position then responded WITH OUR CALLSIGN for takeoff clearance, and departed. I immediately queried ATC, stating that someone just answered for us, we were halfway across the hold short lines, confim we are in position and hold. ATC seemed confused, and then cleared us again into position. Then they told the other aircraft, using its proper callsign, to contact departure.
Case two: We were taxiing in CLE, and were told to hold short of 24L at Sierra. Another airline had just pulled off the gates behind us. ATC asked us if we were ready for departure. The other aircraft said "roger." We were then cleared to "expedite across 24L, hold short 24R" since there was an aircraft on close final for 24L. The other aircraft then responded with the crossing and hold short instruction FOR US, again with no callsign. We just held our position short of the runway, and told ATC we were holding short, there seems to be confusion since someone else is responding for us. Luckily we were blocking the other aircraft from crossing.
Rip on me all you want, but Captain7 does have a point. Lax phraseology is just the beginning in a major breakdown in communication. Which could have dire consequences. I'm sure others have similar experiences.
[/nerd]
Watch the video. Probably really fitting for the thread!
[nerd]
I try my best to use standard phraseology, particularly in Mexico and Canada. Sometimes you can get lax though; it happens. I think more important than what you say is how you say it though... lately I've heard some terrible mumbling, where you are sitting there thinking to yourself, "WTF did he just say?"
I am always impressed by ATC. 95% of the time, they are clear, concise, and use proper phraseology. Plus, 80% of the time they are 100 times more quick witted than we pilots will ever be!
After studying human factors, and taking some courses related to communication (one taught by a former Finnish ATCer), I've seen the light in regards to proper phraseology. Both in communication between crew and ATC.
Twice in the past six months I've seen situations where someone has answered for our aircraft with a "roger" without callsign, which quite possibly could have turned into a runway incursion. Once we were number two for departure, and ATC asked us if we were ready. I said "affirmative" and gave our callsign. We were cleared into position and hold. We began to taxi across the hold short lines, and the captain and I both said "wait" at the same time, since the airplane in position wasn't moving. Then we were given takeoff clearance, and I hesitated a second to respond. The aircraft in position then responded WITH OUR CALLSIGN for takeoff clearance, and departed. I immediately queried ATC, stating that someone just answered for us, we were halfway across the hold short lines, confim we are in position and hold. ATC seemed confused, and then cleared us again into position. Then they told the other aircraft, using its proper callsign, to contact departure.
Case two: We were taxiing in CLE, and were told to hold short of 24L at Sierra. Another airline had just pulled off the gates behind us. ATC asked us if we were ready for departure. The other aircraft said "roger." We were then cleared to "expedite across 24L, hold short 24R" since there was an aircraft on close final for 24L. The other aircraft then responded with the crossing and hold short instruction FOR US, again with no callsign. We just held our position short of the runway, and told ATC we were holding short, there seems to be confusion since someone else is responding for us. Luckily we were blocking the other aircraft from crossing.
Rip on me all you want, but Captain7 does have a point. Lax phraseology is just the beginning in a major breakdown in communication. Which could have dire consequences. I'm sure others have similar experiences.
[/nerd]
