MD80
I was just joshing about the law suit crap. However, I am sure that if someone were to slip up and release names, faces, times, and places there would be some snide lawyer ready to turn this into a quick class action. Your point brings up a grim revalation in that there are many more people who will hold this against you than I thought. If this is the case it stands to reason that a PFTer may not be able to move beyond the location he PFT'd at ergo the desire to PFT at the highest level possible vice PFT into smaller equipment like Gulfstream.
I know you wont dare mention it but I am curious as to which larger commuter was covertly smacking down the PFTers. When I got my start in this biz it seems that every regional was affiliated with some type of PFT, internship, or other type of preferenctial hiring program. To name a few:
Am Eagle
Am West Express
ASA
ACA
Co EX
Comm Air
Chataqua
NW Airlink/Express/Mesaba and the rest of the gang in these colors
I could name at least ten others if I put my mind to it. If you were at one of these maybe the PFTers just bypassed your 'board' and sent some decoys your way to make you feel meaningful in that you were able to put the PFTers in their place.
ENIGMA
good points unfortunately I am not willing to wait around for an upswing, as I have been doing so already for 4 years. I still love and desire to fly however my motivation for this career is waning by the second.
DCitrus
buying training not in lieu of a specfic job seems insane. If I search hard enough I could find someone willing to sell me a DC-3 type and after that I would need to search 100 times harder to find someone who still flies that relic to send my resume.
de727 and Bobby
display some of the finest and strongest moral convictions as neither would PFT even if they had the cash to spare. By no means did I ever make the decision to commit but the fact that I thought about it leaves me a few steps behind these gentlemen, nothing I couldn't repent for at confession though
Lets hope the industry doesn't come across a series of fat cats like Mark Cubin (who PFT'd to become an Astronuaght) that want to take a year or so off from being rich and try their hand at flying co-pilot.
H-46
I found the APTAP site, interesting how the perspective differs for helicopter pilots, heck one guy was even willing to send his daughter with 0 hrs to Gulfstream. Doubtful that I would get any sympathy, understanding or a break from this group since I am neither military nor have flown helicopters and shared the struggles and made the sacrfices as they did.
I am still young enough to sign up for military flight training however since I never considered it before I am not going to try it now, not even in desperation. I just dont think I am quite cut out for the lifestyle. Also, it would be horrible to join the military and serve honorably just to be treated as a second class citizen by jockeys who honed their skill flying the same ASEL category aircraft as me, however without the point of the spear edge that I sure military training gives.
I also found interesting the number of helicopter pilots who later became Air Force Fighter pilots. Ironic that the AF would take them and give them the opportunity to fly the most expensive (per seat) and most challenging aircraft in the world yet the average B-rate regional wont even give them a second look.
As an interesting point to reflect on consider the following. Most military pilots have the GI Bill, which they have undoubtedly earned and paid their dues for. Second that with the fact that Gulfstream discounts its FO program by 50% for those who contract to CFI for a year first. Thus the First Officer program could be fully earned and not paid for (no money down, geez if I could only package this and sell it Carton Sheets style). With all of this in mind would an appropriatley rated CFI/Military pilot who contracts to CFI with Gulstream for a year be considered a PFTer just because he is affiliated with the Company? I am sure that there wont be long lines of folks going to sign up for the military just to fit in this category but it does make an interesting point.
Illni
thanks for the ref to Airnet, although I am not willing to purchase even another .5 hr unless it leads directly to employment. I'd much rather take my new money break off a small chunk for grad school and invest the rest.
CDNJetP
good point on the supply and demand, if there continue to be more pilots than jobs available then this industry will go the way of Hollywood were actors and comedians will stab each other in the back to work for free just to be seen in hopes of impressing some one just to get a shot at 15 min of fame. This situation seems to be aggravated by the fact that schools and training centers advertise heavily to lure young men and wonmen in for training and tap into their pockets preying on their dream to one day fly and get paid for it. And we as CFIs stand idly by and even help encourage them to fly more so that we can fill our own logbooks to the furtherance of our own careers (did someone mention selfish earlier), not realizing that we are just dumping more commercial pilots on the market with no where to go once they get that ticket, keeping a perpetual tilt on the pilot-job suplly-demand ratio.
Timer
consier the fact that some schools or training centers give preference or even require that students must have been trained at their center to work at their center. Now if this isn't PFT it is definitely 'PFT-like' and not much different from Gulfstream who also requires that you must train with them to work with them.
--
Most interesting is that everyone seemed to get emotionally entangled and were very quick to spew out how they hate PFT and how bad it is however no one (short of MD80) offered any concrete evidence of how PFT hurts. I can think of one example:
There was a School in Orlando FL a couple of years ago that gave ab initio training in stages (I,II,III) with direct feeds into ASA and Eagle. I can't remember the name of the place but I think they went t^ts up bankrupt just prior to or right after 9-11 leaving all of their students hanging high and dry; no refund, no more training, even some of their personal gear that was stranded on the premises was lost when the gates were locked. This is the type of information I was looking for.
Based on the fact that this post received many more replies than my other post by 12-1 (even though both display the little flaming folders) I must conclude that PFT remains the arch nemis of the industry and will not significantly (and may possibly hurt) the aspiring pilot who is between completing ratings and their first job.
Moreover since there was no mention of any company other than Gulfstream or TabExpress, and I am not interested in eithter one, I feel that my money and time can be put to better use elsewhere.
Before I go I would like to adress on other point. I have heard it mentioned that PFT takes a seat away from a more deserving Co-pilot and lowers wages for all Co-pilots. I doubt this is true at Gulfstream. I took a round trip on one of their flights..., guess what? every passenger there (myself included) was looking for the cheapest price they could get. I mean these folks were a few pennies away from being Greyhound clientele and I dont think any one of them would have been put off if someone told them that the Co-pilot PFT'd vice being paid in order to provide them with lower cost tickets. In fact if this information was released I think more passengers would follow this trend and demand that more airlines become Gulfstream-like just so that they could buy cheaper tickets. Net effect is that Gulfstream PFTers dont take any co-Pilot seats from anyone because I doubt the company would be in operation without their funding. They do however enable that airline to exist and operate 'out of the red' while building valuable (or maybe not so valuable depending on your perspective) experience. So I guess the Gulfstream Capts, management, and frugral passengers should comfort and thank the Gulfstream PFTer for all the hate and discontent they experience everywhere else they decide to hang their hats.
As for me I am leaving this industry with the conclusion that subjectivity prefers and promotes 'itself', that is CFIers prefer to hire and fly with others who CFI'd; military jet jockeys may feel that only another jet jockey is worthy to grace the same cockpits as them. PFTers certainly dare not hold anything against other PFTers and therefore should not mind hiring or flying with them. This could be broken down ad nauseum into many different categories age, gender, ethinicity, religious belief, education level and probably still hold true.
Syonara,
p.s. look out for publications, and snazzy kneeboard, headset (d/c), and various other aspiring pilot paraphanellia at an FBO near you for pennies on the dollar
