Why Shouldn't I PFT!

[center]

To the fellow who asked about pilots from Gulfstream International Airlines now at other operators; we have one I know of personally who flies for us (Cathay Pacific) on the 777. He is a European national, and I believe we may have a couple of others that flew for Gulfstream Intl.. I believe they are Canadian.

We have many pilots here who, according to the definition given on this thread, P-F-T'ed.

We are one of the most selective airlines in the world when it comes to flight crew recruiment. If a pilot is a well rounded person, with above average flying skills, that is what we find attractive, not how they purchased, or did not purchase their training.

 

[sf3boy]

Los, To my knowledge, Mesaba has never been PFT. To me, PFT will tend to employ pilots that have less than adequate experience than what is required, in my mind, to operate a turboprop or jet. I can understand that CFIing right now might be sparse for hours, but there are freight jobs out there. Most of them will require 135 min times, but to me that is better than hanging out at the airport hoping that somebody will walk in and say, "Will you teach me to fly my brand new King Air?".

 

[bobbysamd]

Gulfstream

Maybe I am confused here. I understand Gulfstream is PFT, correct? Is the SIC pilot required?

Yes. Gulfstream bills itself as a Part 121 carrier. SICs are required under Part 121 ops for the aircraft Gulfstream operates, which are Beech 1900s. Therefore, the SICs are clearly required per the rules under which Gulfstream operates.

P-F-T is an employment issue. Some feel that the Captain, who is a company employee hired through ordinary means, that the FO (SIC) should be hired similarly. "Ordinary means" implies submitting an application and/or resume setting forth your quals, being interviewed, hired and trained. Under a P-F-T scheme, one might go through an interview process, but getting the "job" boils down to ability and desire to pay for the training. That is what many find problematical.

Hope that helps.

 

[bobbysamd]

P-F-T airlines

To the best of my recollection:

Am Eagle

No. It was not when I interviewed there in 1990. It was not a few years ago when a friend of mine was with them briefly.

Am West Express

Do you mean Mesa? That depends on your point of view. MAPD is not P-F-T. Mesa's PACE and its ATP program are pay-for-interview.

ASA

Once more, it depends. We had a Riddle instructor who got on as a street hire at ASA. FSI has had a tie-in with ASA which was P-F-T. It had another program with ASA in which applicants were hired conditionally and were picked up after instructing at least 800 hours at FSI.

Co EX

We have had one regular poster here who said he P-F-Td some years ago. I believe he said that Continental Express did away with P-F-T.

Comm Air

Do you mean Comair and Comair Aviation Academy, now known as DCA? That is another "no." Students know they can get "the interview" through hard work (and politicking), but Comair is still just a big 141 flight school. Comair did have a P-F-T program about ten years ago, but did away with it a few years ago.

NW Airlink/Express

Could that be Express I, which is now Pinnacle? It reportedly hires Gulfstream P-F-T grads. I don't know if it hires off the street.

Mesaba

Mesaba was not P-F-T fourteen years ago. I do not believe it was ever P-F-T.

Perhaps the argument can be made that since apparently so few regionals are P-F-T that it should not matter. I submit, again, that it does. Notwithstanding the harm it does to pilots, generally, I submit that you risk harm to yourself in terms of blackball potential, and to your finances in terms of being ripped off.

 

[bobbysamd]

P-F-T hire at Cathay (edited, see succeeding post below)

To the fellow who asked about pilots from Gulfstream International Airlines now at other operators; we have one I know of personally who flies for us (Cathay Pacific) on the 777.

Was he hired directly from Gulfstream onto the B777 or did he got some other experience along the way?

 

[46Driver]

Re: P-F-T airlines

I submit that you risk harm to yourself in terms of blackball potential, and to your finances in terms of being ripped off.

And the counterpoint to this is that most military pilots on the hiring committees are not going to care about PFT one way or the other, and the loss of seniority can wreck your finances.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Re: P-F-T

Well, [a hypothetical ASA applicant in '98] did have to remit money as a term of employment, didn't he? Once more, P-F-T, pay-for-job, or whatever you call it is an employment issue.

So I guess I'm not invited for Thanksgiving, huh? That's okay...I'll still send a card.

Particularly in light of the reimbursement, I still think it was a good choice. It beats being on furlough. Being in the low four hundreds among fifteen hundred pilots isn't bad, either.

 

[FN FAL]

Once more, it depends. We had a Riddle instructor who got on as a street hire at ASA.

I don't mean to nit pick, but I thougth the term "off the street" meant hiring of captains. IE: they hired "off the street" captains because nobody wanted to or could upgrade, so they bypassed the IN company FO's.

 

[center]

For Bobbysamd,

This, I should offer to him to answer, but I do not think he would frequent this board. Then again I could be mistaken, we are only professional colleagues, not mates. Without specific information; I understood he came directly from Gulfstream Intl. Airlines. I was also under the assumption that he had been there for several years. He was not placed directly onto the 777, as he would have been hired as a relief/cruise pilot (second officer) initially to train him in Cathay Pacific SOP's, and build his experience. He would also have been in this position for at least 2-3 years minimum.

The only other method we offer recruitment for foreign nationals, is direct entry first officers on the freight side. This entry method requires heavy jet time (757,767, etc.) or military jet experience. Commuter type aircraft are not suitable.

Please don't misunderstand my posting above, by your caption Bobbysamd, it sounds as though you are assuming Cathay Pacifc requires new hire pilots to pay for their training. This is not the case. We pay for all expenses once a pilot is accepted, including room and board while in conversion training in Australia.

 

[bobbysamd]

P-F-T hire

Without specific information; I understood he came directly from Gulfstream Intl. Airlines. I was also under the assumption that he had been there for several years . . . . .

So, perhaps, he was a Captain at Gulfstream before Cathay hired him. A far cry from being hired as a former P-F-T FO.

y your caption Bobbysamd, it sounds as though you are assuming Cathay Pacifc requires new hire pilots to pay for their training. This is not the case. We pay for all expenses once a pilot is accepted, including room and board while in convertion training in Australia.

Oh, no, I have known of Cathay for years and never gained any impression that it was a P-F-T company. I know that it has recruited foreign nationals as pilots for years. Captain Mac, late of Flight Crews International, who specialized in foreign airline recruitment, ran blurbs in his newsletters about Cathay recruiting - and the high minimum quals required.