Why do ASA pilots want PBS?

[NotTooBad]

Under PBS I would get more days off with my Vacation in Sept than I will with conflicting drops. I would end up working 8 days with PBS..... I'll work 12 with conflicts. I honestly wish PBS was implemented now.

 

[Freebrd]

Our union gave them ALL the cards. QUOTE]

maybe cause the union gets that 6hour credit (bought off?)but hey we get a 1% NEXT YR plus min day increases what, .11??????!

 

[the palm]

The argument is simple:

The comapny has way too much control. If they want to set the TLV really high and they build crap trips-you will get no time off. This effect is even worse in a vacation month. Our union gave them ALL the cards. If they choose to make nice trips, this system will work out great. If they choose to put out crap (in the interest of "efficiency,") then it will be a huge QOL-destroying disaster. I am still hoping things don't work out as poorly as I imagine, but I think any chance of that will be a long shot-especially using history as a guide.

I'm guessing there will be a combination of nice trips and crap trips. The senior will do well while the junior pilots suffer. How is that different from the way it is now? I just hope it takes those senior guys longer to figure out how to use the system and us junior guys can benefit at their expense for once

 

[the palm]

And isn't there supposed to be a "reasons report" to provide transparancy?

 

[79%N1]

Sorry streetgang. ASA's PBS is nothing like yours at Skywest. Maybe you can piggyback us again and get a better deal. Don't compare what you don't know.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Sorry streetgang. ASA's PBS is nothing like yours at Skywest. Maybe you can piggyback us again and get a better deal. Don't compare what you don't know.

79,
I am gonna give you a bit of wisdom learned from 35 years of work experience, if "the man" wants it you don't. The man wants to save money, you want more, do the math. I understand you guys are still in the honeymoon phase with BH, that's ok, you say he is light years better than your past execs, SKYW has made their fortune with, by being, just a little bit better than the competition. BH is a nasty little prick, and covers that with smoke and mirrors, he will look you straight in the eye while one of his minions jams the barbwire wrapped corncob into your tater. Underestimate him at your own risk, and from the consensus here, and tidbits already posted, you own personal cornholing is lined up and ready for action.
PBR

 

[PBRstreetgang]

And isn't there supposed to be a "reasons report" to provide transparancy?

I hope you can read Korean, or Arabic, because that is what it will look like.
PBR

 

[PBRstreetgang]

I'm guessing there will be a combination of nice trips and crap trips. The senior will do well while the junior pilots suffer. How is that different from the way it is now? I just hope it takes those senior guys longer to figure out how to use the system and us junior guys can benefit at their expense for once

Buy Powerball tickets, the odds are better.
PBR

 

[PapaSiera]

Ok guys, you keep throwing around the words "industry leading PBS.." let's hear what makes it industry leading. Or are you just repeating what your reps told you when they were selling PBS to you?

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Ok guys, you keep throwing around the words "industry leading PBS.." let's hear what makes it industry leading. Or are you just repeating what your reps told you when they were selling PBS to you?

It is an oxymoron, PBS is shorthand for company sponsored cornholing, the difference between versions is the size of the corncob. It never ceases to amaze me, airline pilots think they are the original inventor of the wheel and are individually smarter than the guys that went before them. Newsflash we are average, if we were smarter/better we would be test pilots at Edwards, and dumber/worse, members of the PCL 410 klub.
PBR

 

[ASA Captain]

Y'all don't know what the phuk you're talking about.

Our vacation month allow a pilot 70-75 hours. Even in a month that the TLV is high. In a bad month, a junior pilot could get unstacked on a vacation month but our scheduling committee will do the bid runs to try and minimize the damage, but it will be rare. Because our guys actually run this award process they can tweak it for the least amount of damage, instead of the company ham-handedly unstacking half the list just because they don't want to bother.

In our agreement we even gave guys with vacation a trump card that will override the company even if they ignore all the other pilot's credit request.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Y'all don't know what the phuk you're talking about.
In our agreement we even gave guys with vacation a trump card that will override the company even if they ignore all the other pilot's credit request.

Gonna bet you will be squealing loudest of all.
Good luck, you are gonna need it.
PBR

 

[79%N1]

Streetgang, you sound pretty bitter, jaded and worn down by life.....but I gotta admit, your reply was pretty funny.

Now, back to BH bashing!

 

[COOPERVANE]

Streetgang, you sound pretty bitter, jaded and worn down by life.....but I gotta admit, your reply was pretty funny.

Now, back to BH bashing!

I think he is bitter, jaded and worn down by life with Chip and Brad...

We're next.

 

[the palm]

I hope you can read Korean, or Arabic, because that is what it will look like.
PBR

My extensive training prior to this career has me fluent in both of those....among others.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Oh, and by the way.... since JoeMerchant started taking cheap shots below the belt....

What "cheap shot below the belt" did I take? It's clear that there are two different beliefs among the XJT pilots. I welcome those who think like cybourg10. My beef was with Nevets lecturing us about our PBS vote while admitting that you voted for pay concessions that weren't needed so as to "remain competitive". That isn't a "cheap shot", rather it is a inconveniant truth that some want to brush under the rug.

I would like to see this work as I think it benefits ALL of us by making us larger and stronger in a tough environment and a tough industry. However don't come hear and lecture ASA pilots about PBS while trying to ignore the concessions YOUR pilot group voted for. That dog won't hunt....

 

[JoeMerchant]

I think he is bitter, jaded and worn down by life with Chip and Brad...

We're next.

Would some of you bitter folks enlighten us to which regional management group you would rather work for. Pick one any one....Which one is your "dream team"?

 

[the palm]

Buy Powerball tickets, the odds are better.
PBR

Are you kidding? Generation X has a clear advantage in PBS. We may have a lot of gel in our hair/wigs, but we know how to use computers. I had a old timer in crew lounge ask me how to get on the internet....while he was on ourASA. That was some funny chit.

 

[skootertrash]

What "cheap shot below the belt" did I take? It's clear that there are two different beliefs among the XJT pilots. I welcome those who think like cybourg10. My beef was with Nevets lecturing us about our PBS vote while admitting that you voted for pay concessions that weren't needed so as to "remain competitive". That isn't a "cheap shot", rather it is a inconveniant truth that some want to brush under the rug.

I would like to see this work as I think it benefits ALL of us by making us larger and stronger in a tough environment and a tough industry. However don't come hear and lecture ASA pilots about PBS while trying to ignore the concessions YOUR pilot group voted for. That dog won't hunt....

Ok but we took pay cuts and are STILL higher than your pay rates! So how is that a concession?

 

[crj567]

Our union gave them ALL the cards. QUOTE]

maybe cause the union gets that 6hour credit (bought off?)but hey we get a 1% NEXT YR plus min day increases what, .11??????!

Yep-

Not many people know that as a result of this, our union reps are getting a huge raise for themselves. Nice sales job!

(I find it more than a little ironic that someone we all know was removed from his chairman position due to supposedly abusing the pay system. So now this system has been "enhanced" to assure that all the reps are paid way more-so that it is never abused again.)

 

[JoeMerchant]

Ok but we took pay cuts and are STILL higher than your pay rates! So how is that a concession?

Is that really your definition of a concession? Really?

 

[the palm]

Yep-

Not many people know that as a result of this, our union reps are getting a huge raise for themselves. Nice sales job!

(I find it more than a little ironic that someone we all know was removed from his chairman position due to supposedly abusing the pay system. So now this system has been "enhanced" to assure that all the reps are paid way more-so that it is never abused again.)

I think it's better under the new system. No more of that 105 hr guarantee BS. Now you have to show up to work to get paid. Kudos to the new MEC. Last I heard all the reps are flying the line....including the chairman. Bout freakin time.

 

[PapaSiera]

What "cheap shot below the belt" did I take? It's clear that there are two different beliefs among the XJT pilots. I welcome those who think like cybourg10. My beef was with Nevets lecturing us about our PBS vote while admitting that you voted for pay concessions that weren't needed so as to "remain competitive". That isn't a "cheap shot", rather it is a inconveniant truth that some want to brush under the rug.

I would like to see this work as I think it benefits ALL of us by making us larger and stronger in a tough environment and a tough industry. However don't come hear and lecture ASA pilots about PBS while trying to ignore the concessions YOUR pilot group voted for. That dog won't hunt....

Our CEO was in a pi**ing match with CAL's CEO, and that caused us to have to sign a below cost CPA where we lost money. What's your excuse? I thought you guys make gobbs of money for Jerry.

 

[skootertrash]

Is that really your definition of a concession? Really?

Well according to what you've said, you need to remain compedative, so if we lower our costs to yours (understanding that pay rates are a small part of it) then wouldn't we be doing what you suggest? Yes, of course it's a concession, but we took pay cuts and still get paid more than you do, WITH BETTER WORK RULES AND BENEFITS!

I feel like I'm in the freaking twilight zone here! WTF!

 

[crj567]

Well according to what you've said, you need to remain compedative, so if we lower our costs to yours (understanding that pay rates are a small part of it) then wouldn't we be doing what you suggest? Yes, of course it's a concession, but we took pay cuts and still get paid more than you do, WITH BETTER WORK RULES AND BENEFITS!

I feel like I'm in the freaking twilight zone here! WTF!

I often feel like I am in the twilight zone when I try and talk any kind of sense with Joe Merchant....

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Streetgang, you sound pretty bitter, jaded and worn down by life.....but I gotta admit, your reply was pretty funny.

Now, back to BH bashing!

He's just trying to show you guys the "light"....

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Streetgang, you sound pretty bitter, jaded and worn down by life.....but I gotta admit, your reply was pretty funny.

Now, back to BH bashing!

79,
I am bitter about my job, I actually have a pretty good life. What I am, is a student of life and make no mistake life ain't fair, just ask a zebra being eaten alive by hyenas. We are the zebras in life and corporate execs are the hyenas in life. If you think BH is ok, ask a SKYW pilot who has been around awhile how the D.Douglas case was handled, that one had BH fingerprints all over the harpoon stuck in Dons back. That case went to court and the judge ruled in favor of D.D. To the tune of LOTS, and ordered D.D. Back to work. There was perjury proved via concealed recordings. There are a few newspaper articles about it. I bid very high and really have nothing to gain from growth or any such foolishness, I ain't moving, or commuting, so it's all smoke and mirrors. Read Sun Tsu, knowing your opponent will/can give you advantage, BH has been a pilot and worked on both sides of the job, so he has insight and experience that you guys don't. T. Fizer has been banished to the SKYW Siberian hinterlands for the D.Douglas case. This isn't about ASA pilots vs SKYW pilots, it's about pilots vs execs, I just don't want you guys to make the same mistakes we did. On the other hand I am glad to be rid of him, I just feel that, pilot to pilot I owe you a brief on that "tricky approach", what you do with that brief is up to you.
PBR

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Are you kidding? Generation X has a clear advantage in PBS. We may have a lot of gel in our hair/wigs, but we know how to use computers. I had a old timer in crew lounge ask me how to get on the internet....while he was on ourASA. That was some funny chit.

Ahhh,
Spoken like a true Gen Xer. Who do you think perfected/developed the computer? For every old timer lost at the keyboard there are dozens who were instrumental in developing the industry. Also true to your stripes(underwear), you are willing to trade your future schedule QOL for a few months advantage in bidding over a couple of stubborn old guys. If you are a Gen Xer, you will have 35 + years left to screw yourselves into the ground. You just don't get it, the only advantage is held by the program operator of PBS, otherwise known as " the company"
You will need more than good luck, so good luck anyways.
PBR

 

[79%N1]

So if D Douglas did write F ------ on company property, and I'm not saying he did, should he have been fired?

 

[the palm]

Ahhh,
You just don't get it, the only advantage is held by the program operator of PBS, otherwise known as " the company"
You will need more than good luck, so good luck anyways.
PBR

No, it is obvious that you don't get it. At ASA the union has many controls over the program including bid runs. I ain't saying the union gets it right every time, but I'm glad our PBS isn't solely at the company's discretion like you think it is.