Why do ASA pilots want PBS?

[punkpilot48]

79% N1, that is what we need to shoot for. XJET folks, can you just drop a trip electronically , without begging a chief pilot or crew scheduler ?

Yes and No.

As long as there is reserve coverage for that day, you can drop a trip once the secondary line improvement window is open. To do it electronically you have to trick the system a little bit because CCS just wont do it. You want to skip the trick you can call scheduling and chance that nothing changes in the resv pool for the 45+ min you might sit on hold.

We also have bad day worse day trading. Not sure if you're familiar but all that says if you trade a trip into days that have worse coverage than the days of your current duty its all good. But it has to be done over the phone again CCS just doesnt do it for us.

Something else to point out that might clear up some perspectives is we do not trade or pickup opentime based on senority it is first come first serve as long as the pilot is a lineholder. Resv pickup is a little different.

 

[Medeco]

The fact that reserves can pickup at all at XJT is a big bonus.

 

[skootertrash]

Some insights on ASA's voting in PBS. It passed for a few reasons. First off, many believe that to remain competitive in an age where regionals are forced to compete for flying, ASA would need PBS to remain competitive, and bid for new contracts going forward and keeping the ones we have. We were currently the only DCI carrier without it. Most ASA pilots believed that PBS would be included most certainly in the next section 6, and that it would be difficult to convince any arbitrator or NMB that we are reasonable for holding out against it, since every other DCI carrier had it. Management all but stated they would not agree to any contract that didn't include it. Maybe they would, maybe not. Who knows.
At any rate, it was perfectly clear that negotiating now would provide us with certain benefits that sec 6 likely would not. For voting it in now, we got some contractual gains that we may not have gotten later, not the least of which is picking the vendor and gaining industry leading PBS language and rules. The system is capable of things that all others is not.

In addition, ASA got certain contractual gains and pay increases (albeit small) that benefit us now. Pay, addition to min day and scheduling and trip swapping and dropping language that we did not have before. It seemed fair to make these gains and help the company remain competitive for the long-term viability of this company, especially since it was coming anyway in the next contract.

Having seen it in action, it is a pretty cool bidding system. Once you know how to use it, it seems pretty cool. You can do MANY things bidding wise that you could never dream of in line bidding. Instead of just demanding that you never have it, just chill out and see what it is all about. You may even like it.

Wow, just wow. So they string you along for 5 years but you don't think YOU could string them along too?

 

[skootertrash]

No. You cannot do anything close to that here, nor will you be able to after the integration.

Hmmm, 2600 pilots vs 1650 pilots.....roll call vote and, well, wanna bet?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Wow, just wow. So they string you along for 5 years but you don't think YOU could string them along too?

Most of us didn't want to "string them along"...We wanted PBS sooner rather than later.

 

[skootertrash]

If you are senior enough to do all that, then in theory, you should be able to do the same with possibly MORE options in our PBS system.

The question remains what kind of games will the company impose, like the red arrow days, that will work around the intent of the PBS language.

Time will tell.

YOU HAVEN'T EVEN TURNED THE FU$*#(*ING THING ON YET!!! From YOUR LOA 11 document this is the companies escape clause.....
Wording such as "to the extent reasonably practicable and considering unilization parameters, operational productivity and perforrmance, cost and efficient use of staffing....." is not wording that can be enforced! Don't you guys understand that? We've seen our company use this against us time and time again. Don't expect us to take this up the pooper just because you did!

The Company and the Association recognize that a variety of
productive trips are essential for the best overall PBS bid run solution.
To the extent reasonably practicable and considering the Company's
utilization parameters, operational productivity and performance, costs
and efficient use of staffing, the Company will construct trips as​

follows:

 

[JoeMerchant]

Hmmm, 2600 pilots vs 1650 pilots.....roll call vote and, well, wanna bet?

Nice attitude...I hope you don't represent the majority at XJT.

 

[skootertrash]

Nice attitude...I hope you don't represent the majority at XJT.

Well, its YOUR guys that are trying to shove your crappy PBS system and DOH down our throats! How about you turn the freaking software on first and then talk!

 

[COOPERVANE]

Our crappy PBS system is slightly better than other crappy PBS systems.....wait. or is it?

 

[ASA Captain]

Just to address the DOH thing, I have talked to a lot of our guys and they are asking what I think is going to happen. They are NOT screaming for DOH. Some say it with a wink and a smile but it is just fluff.

Relax. We are not a group of a$$#@/&$. We all want to protect our lives and jobs but stealing someone elses livelihood is not our style.

 

[ASA Captain]

Oh and that PBS thing. We aren't cramming down your throat. In fact we kept our company from cramming it down our throats. We made the best of it outside of section 6 talks.

If you want to keep PBS at bay, you will have to buy it at the table. You will spend a whole lot of cash trying to kill it.

The reason we kept it out was we had asked them when we started the opener if PBS was an issue. They said no. Then half way through our scheduling section they decide they want PBS. Nice try.

 

[Nevets]

No. You cannot do anything close to that here, nor will you be able to after the integration.

Why do you say that? And why wouldn't you want to be able to do that anyways? Do you guys live in Bizarro world or something?

I'm sick of xjet guys swinging their dicks and talking about how great their contract is. On FI and in person.

XJT pilots are very proud of their contract and don't want to see the best provisions, such as scope, vacation, B plan, thrown in the toilet when we didn't even ask for any of this.

As long as there is reserve coverage for that day, you can drop a trip once the secondary line improvement window is open.

You can do this in the initial line improvement window as well.

Relax. We are not a group of a$$#@/&$. We all want to protect our lives and jobs but stealing someone elses livelihood is not our style.

I hope so because many here want to shove this PbS concession on to us.

 

[PapaSiera]

All the XJT guys are saying is that we worked hard for or contract, and we do not want our current quality of life to take a hit over this merger. You guys should be supporting our contract and language, not fighting against it. We operate more like a major in several ways, hopefully we can bring the whole group up to that.

 

[punkpilot48]

The fact that reserves can pickup at all at XJT is a big bonus.

Yeah it's kinda funky how the "aggressive pick up window" vs. "resv pilot trip ownership rules" work but it does give the reserve pilot some sorta shot at controlling their schedule.

You can do this in the initial line improvement window as well.

I used to think so too.

buuuuuut after getting pretty upset at a scheduler one month the supervisor "politely informed" me of:

21.H.2.d A pilot may not personal drop a trip during the Initial Line Improvement Window

and

21.H.6.d. A personal drop will not be approved prior to the opening of the Secondary Line Improvement window.

Compliance agreed with the supervisor.

Now, I know Ive had schedulers straight drop trips before in ILIW but apparently they weren't supposed to. But nothing has ever stopped me from trading away two 4-days in exchange of only picking one 4-day up.

 

[Nevets]

But nothing has ever stopped me from trading away two 4-days in exchange of only picking one 4-day up.

Yeah, this is exactly what I was talking about. Technically its not a personal drop. Its a trade and perfectly legal. No need to call scheduling, just do it over CCS.

 

[PapaSiera]

Yeah it's kinda funky how the "aggressive pick up window" vs. "resv pilot trip ownership rules" work but it does give the reserve pilot some sorta shot at controlling their schedule.



I used to think so too.

buuuuuut after getting pretty upset at a scheduler one month the supervisor "politely informed" me of:

21.H.2.d A pilot may not personal drop a trip during the Initial Line Improvement Window

and

21.H.6.d. A personal drop will not be approved prior to the opening of the Secondary Line Improvement window.

Compliance agreed with the supervisor.

Now, I know Ive had schedulers straight drop trips before in ILIW but apparently they weren't supposed to. But nothing has ever stopped me from trading away two 4-days in exchange of only picking one 4-day up.

You can drop in the Initial. You just have to do it via CCS. Trade 2 4-day for 1 4-day and POOF. You dropped 1 of your 4-days.

 

[punkpilot48]

You can drop in the Initial. You just have to do it via CCS. Trade 2 4-day for 1 4-day and POOF. You dropped 1 of your 4-days.

Yeah you should read my entire post. Maybe I already said that.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Well, its YOUR guys that are trying to shove your crappy PBS system and DOH down our throats! How about you turn the freaking software on first and then talk!

1. It's not a "crappy" PBS system. It's the best in the industry.

2. I'm not trying to cram anything down your throat, and neither is any ASA pilot. My company just bought your company. We voted for this PBS system.

3. PBS is simply you building your line out of the trips that the company builds. Line bidding is the same exact trips with the company building the lines. Wouldn't you rather build the lines than the company?

 

[JoeMerchant]

All the XJT guys are saying is that we worked hard for or contract, and we do not want our current quality of life to take a hit over this merger. You guys should be supporting our contract and language, not fighting against it. We operate more like a major in several ways, hopefully we can bring the whole group up to that.

We have worked hard for our contracts also. We have never voted for concessions either like you have. We don't want our QOL to take a hit either.

We also understand that we are competing with others for "lift" amongst UAL/CAL/DAL....and we understand that we must stay competitive if we want to improve our QOL.

 

[Nevets]

1. It's not a "crappy" PBS system. It's the best in the industry.

2. I'm not trying to cram anything down your throat, and neither is any ASA pilot. My company just bought your company. We voted for this PBS system.

3. PBS is simply you building your line out of the trips that the company builds. Line bidding is the same exact trips with the company building the lines. Wouldn't you rather build the lines than the company?

What if your not crappy pbs system is crapier than XJT's?

Skywest bought all of XJT's contracts as well and we will get to vote in or out your pbs system again.

At XJT pilots help build the trips (well until this month) and built the lines. So we already build the lines anyways.

We have worked hard for our contracts also. We have never voted for concessions either like you have. We don't want our QOL to take a hit either.

We also understand that we are competing with others for "lift" amongst UAL/CAL/DAL....and we understand that we must stay competitive if we want to improve our QOL.

PBS was your concessions whether you acknowledge it or not. You can remain competitive without asking for pilots to change their pay or work rules.