where is njaowner?

[netjetwife]

If he did, in fact, land on an icy runway with a "strong cross wind" at Telluride, yes, I am calling him stupid. High elevation, short runway(for the altitude), icy, and a crosswind....not something I would even consider.

The crews are not "told to land" anywhere. They are told where the trip is scheduled to go - but it is ultimately up to the crew to determine whether or not it is safe to do so. If not, then go elsewhere. I'm certainly not going to do something unsafe to "do my best for the owner". As somebody else stated, the conditions were more than likely greatly exaggerated - but if not, you know what I(and I'd be willing to bet most pilots agree with me) think about it.

Sorry for the delay in response...I was enjoying some recreational time where electricity and phones were not available.

I guess he knew he had the necessary skill to make a difficult landing. He's also come home and tossed a chunk of tire in my lap from a blowout in the F16 on take-off. That landing wasn't easy either. He doesn't brag or exaggerate because there is no need to do so. His flying speaks for itself.

My family, also, enjoys "recreational time where electricity and phones are not available". That is why I object so strongly to being told that my husband must be contactable by 2pm on his last day home.

 

[NJAowner]

Been on for a while

Griz - I have been on for much longer than a few weeks. I do not pretned to be a pilot and have never said you guys should approve of the proposed contract. Have I???

And, I have never questioned whether you even know how to fly a plane, or are whom you claim to be.

Enough.

Fly safe.

 

[flyer172r]

I was enjoying some recreational time where electricity and phones were not available.

Places like that still exist? Man, I wanna go there for a while

 

[hbrow15]

Places like that still exist? Man, I wanna go there for a while

sure they do.... just come visit us in Florida after a Hurricane comes through..

 

[cgmason1]

Griz

Your 100% spot on.

I also asked him a quesstion he should have been able to answer-but said that he did not have access to the info(could have gotten it from his owner services team)

You can be an owner, wife, whatever-I come to this board to solicit info from Fractional Pilots and you just can't be as familiar with the job/issues unless you actually do it.

Fly Safe
Chuck

 

[flyr4hire]

Whatta ya doin Chuck?

Slummin on the frac boards huh? lol. Guess its a hard habit to break, especially when your amigos are gettin the shaft. Hope you're havin fun "on the other side".

 

[cgmason1]

Still hoping for the best for everyone at NJA-as you know Frax guys deserve as much or more than airline guys.

Fly Safe Big H
Chuck

 

[learflyer]

haven't seen him on the boards since the ta came out???

Did you check: ack, teb, hya, hto, fok, pbi, bct?

 

[NJAowner]

Wrong places

Good try LearFlyer but I hate crowds and prefer privacy

ACK - been there once, off season. No need to go again. Couldn't get the plane in because of very sudden fog so we had to catch a ferry to Hyannis and fly from there.

BCT/PBI - you wouldn't catch me on the east coast with the crowds. Might as well stay in NJ. Prefer the west coast of Fla or the Keys.

TEB - nope, only after a blizzard. Use other NJ airports.

HTO/FOK - never been to the east end of LI and never plan to go. Too crowded, self deluded, fake and full of BS.

Most of my regularr airports are more mom & pop FBOs. Definitely not places where there is a Signature.

Fly safe.

P.S. - when flying for vacation (not business), it is jeans/shorts and sneakers. Not the fashions in all the promotional materials.

 

[learflyer]

you are my kind of owner!!

 

[350DRIVER]

Wifey,


I have no dog in this fight but it is absolutely embarrassing for any wife to come on this board advocating the "tipping" issue, get real. . . You are coming off as a person that is "weak", "needy", and "selfish". Have you ever contemplated how much money these owners are paying to sit in the back of the aircraft?. Have you even thought a long the lines of common sense and how disrespectful it sounds to any pilot to even make a notion of how some owner that pays your hubby's salary should tip a pilot?. This has got to be one of the most outrageous series of posts that I have come across to date on this message board and you can be assured that I have seen plenty of them.

As a former 135 captain myself I would find it somewhat embarrassing for the lead pax to even want to tip myself and the other pilot. I always felt as it was a slap in the face on more occasions than one. The issue is with management NOT with pax who are paying top dollar to pay your husband's salary. Simple solution would be to vote the TA DOWN and pick the fight with management and make a statement.

I applaud NJowner for even contemplating going along with your silly notions, you truly need a reality check and have someone explain this industry to you.

unfukcin real

3 5 0

 

[Flyingdutchman]

I agree 280%

 

[netjetwife]

It seems you missed the explanation, so I'll say it again. I asked the owner 3 questions--HE responded to the tipping one. I asked only his POSITION on it, and he took the conversation further, which prompted the discussion which followed. The FACTS are that some owners do WILLINGLY CHOOSE to tip, and many pilots appreciate the recoginition of their efforts. NJA pilots have a reputation for going above and beyond the call of duty, and that type of service often brings tips. My husband has received another generous tip since those posts. Yes, he had given extra attention to the px, but did not expect a tip. The owner WANTED to show appreciation and chose to do that by tipping. IT DOES HAPPEN! Perhaps it is more common at NJA because of the interaction and the fact that many of the pilots do go the extra mile for the px/owners.

I did do internet research to find out what the etiquette rule is to help answer the question of tipping pilots. I believe that the experts in that area are the ones to listen to. The rule is--do not tip the pilots UNLESS they have given extra service above flying the plane. Furthermore, it would be rude to spurn an offer made as a means of saying "thank you". Good manners, alone, would dictate a gracious acceptance. Anything less would be a "slap in the face" to the owner/px.

 

[Les Paul]

It seems you missed the explanation, so I'll say it again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again.

Since I'm on the internet 28 hours a day, I did do internet research to find out what the etiquette rule is to help answer the question of tipping pilots. I believe that the experts in that area are the ones to listen to. I'm not a pilot, nor have I ever tipped anyone, at anytime in my dreadful life, but I will still explain the rules of tipping to you, and you WILL listen or I will ignore you. The rule is--do not tip the pilots UNLESS they have given extra service above flying the plane.

Furthermore, since I am really Miss Manners and have a newspaper column, it would be rude to spurn an offer made as a means of saying "thank you". Good manners, alone, would dictate a gracious acceptance. Anything less would be a "slap in the face" to the owner/px.

Speaking of "slap in the face", would someone please slap me in the face.

Need I say more?

Les Paul

 

[350DRIVER]

It seems you missed the explanation, so I'll say it again. I asked the owner 3 questions--HE responded to the tipping one. I asked only his POSITION on it, and he took the conversation further, which prompted the discussion which followed. The FACTS are that some owners do WILLINGLY CHOOSE to tip, and many pilots appreciate the recoginition of their efforts. NJA pilots have a reputation for going above and beyond the call of duty, and that type of service often brings tips. My husband has received another generous tip since those posts. Yes, he had given extra attention to the px, but did not expect a tip. The owner WANTED to show appreciation and chose to do that by tipping. IT DOES HAPPEN! Perhaps it is more common at NJA because of the interaction and the fact that many of the pilots do go the extra mile for the px/owners.

I did do internet research to find out what the etiquette rule is to help answer the question of tipping pilots. I believe that the experts in that area are the ones to listen to. The rule is--do not tip the pilots UNLESS they have given extra service above flying the plane. Furthermore, it would be rude to spurn an offer made as a means of saying "thank you". Good manners, alone, would dictate a gracious acceptance. Anything less would be a "slap in the face" to the owner/px.

I didn't "miss" any explanation at all, in fact that is what sparked my attention when you started this whole mess with regards to "tipping", which in my opinion is classless to put it mildly.

NJA pilots have a reputation for going above and beyond the call of duty, and that type of service often brings tips.

Flight Ops pilots, CS pilots, FJ pilots, etc, they all have that same reputation "honey". The objective of any crew who is in their right frame of mind is to get the pax from point A to point B safely without dinging a piece of metal in the process. How does your husband go "above and beyond this call of duty" more so than the entire rest of the pilot group?. This notion is completely insane, this is what he is being PAID to do.

I feel for the entire pilot group there, I hope they turn this TA down, and get what they truly deserve since they are a great bunch of guys but you coming onto this thread and spouting off reminds me of the homeless poor folks in Mexico City and Tijuana who sit on the side of the road and give chickletts away and indirectly beg for a "tip" since they "deserve" it in their opinion.

I think you need to do some research with regards to how much these pax are paying for these flights, how much money have tied up monthly, yearly, etc. These are the folks that ensure that your husband will have a job.

A tip may be warranted in your opinion but surely this is something that should never ever be expected.

3 5 0

 

[NJAowner]

Tips

Ms. NetJetWife

When you (or your husband when he is airlining to/from home) get off a commercial flight how and how much do you tip the pilots? Since the cockpit doors are locked, do you wait at the gate until they de-plane? Please let me know the details.

P.S. My flight last week was cancelled so I have not had the opportunity to "tip" or try to tip a NJA pilot.

Fly safe.

 

[x402]

The difference is the Airline pilot is already being paid a REAL WAGE. Tips are not necessary. The FA's are so senior that they are making more than 5 yr, PIC's.
No one wants owners to tip to make up for the pitiful pay. We want the real wages we earn everytime we haul your **S to be the the best in the biz.

NJA owners are not going to derive any perks from their financing of Netjets Europe. You are lining the pockets of BKH. You are not lowering your costs or increasing your the value of your shares. Your dollars are being used and the value of your aircraft will suffer on the resale market due to the policies of Netjets.

 

[CatYaaak]

NJA owners are not going to derive any perks from their financing of Netjets Europe. You are lining the pockets of BKH. You are not lowering your costs or increasing your the value of your shares. Your dollars are being used and the value of your aircraft will suffer on the resale market due to the policies of Netjets.

As much as it amuses me when a pilot's wife tries to "educate" pilots how aviation works, it's not nearly as funny as when a pilot tries to "educate" a businessman how the business world works.

 

[x402]

Yes, yack, a pilot that has a clue. I know it's just flame bait and I'm not above it; go f*** yourself.

Thanks

 

[Les Paul]

The difference is the Airline pilot is already being paid a REAL WAGE. Tips are not necessary. The FA's are so senior that they are making more than 5 yr, PIC's.

So Airline Pilots make a "REAL" wage huh? Is that your final answer or would you like to poll the audience? I believe your answer is....... WRONG!

I guess I'm crazy by even suggestng that you might want to check the average salaries of some of the Regional Airlines, then go back and compare them with average salaries at Netjets. Pilots at almost every Regional out there are laughing at your ridiculous uninformed baseless statement.

To verify my position, I called a friend of mine that has been at Netjets since 2002. As a FO, that is drawing Captain pay, he has a base salary around $47,000 a year. Please show me a Regional First Officer, that has been at their respective Regional airline since 2002, is drawing Captain pay, and has a base salary of $47,000.

And, please show me ANY Airline Flight attendant that has a salary base more than the base salary of a 5 year PIC at Netjets, which would be $61,000.

Finally, all these comparisons are for Netjets SMALL BIZJETS.... yet you want to compare apples to oranges with a Airline.

You are incredible uninformed!

Les Paul

 

[x402]

If you want to take my reply to Netjets Owner and parse it, I'm sure you can make all sorts of arguements regarding regional pay vs fractional pay.
Besides, if the regional crew loaded my bags, made sure my food was just right and had my ground transportation waiting planeside, I'd probably tip them.

 

[sikntired]

Gawd, get off Netjetwife's back already about the tipping conversation with NJA owner.....it was a CONVERSATION initiated to get his feedback concerning his thoughts on tipping....nothing more.

My husband has received tips on 4 occasions in 6 years...he usually forgets to tell me about work "stuff", but has always been VERY appreciative of the tips and it was always the first thing he'd mention when calling home. One tip was received after the pax dog did his "thing" in the plane and my husband cleaned it up....ya think any NW captain would do that? Oh, AND he shared the tips (equally) with the SIC AND FA. Just want to be clear about the "tipping" issue. It's not expected, but is very appreciated. Drop the f'ing conversation about tipping now.

Netjetwife is a strong advocate of her family AND the Netjets pilots. PERIOD. What don't you understand about that? I think she's proven herself to be quite knowledgeable about most topics "discussed" on this board...as much, or more so than some of us. This is supposedly a place to hash out ideas and opinions. I've never found her posts to be personally insulting towards anyone and she backs up her opinions with the facts as she sees them. I'm in agreement with her.

What our husbands do for a living affects us personally, and THAT is why some of these "discussions" become heated. I am not a pilot, (I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night though!), but this "lifestyle" IS NOT an easy one for anyone involved. It's OUR LIVES being affected here, as well as our husbands' way of making a living. Geez, just BACK OFF. Personally, my husband's flying career has been a great "fit" for us....we're in the fight of our lives right now to achieve as much as we can to make it more financially rewarding as well as improving the other "issues" involved in the POS TA. It "happens" to be IMPORTANT to us RIGHT NOW.

What IDIOTS we would be IF we were to be passive little "wifey's" sitting back silently. Not this girl, and obviously not Netjetwife either.

You're WACKED if you don't understand, but hey, CARRY ON, as I'm sure you will.

I'm still SIKNTIRED

 

[pault]

Ms. NetJetWife

When you (or your husband when he is airlining to/from home) get off a commercial flight how and how much do you tip the pilots? Since the cockpit doors are locked, do you wait at the gate until they de-plane? Please let me know the details.

P.S. My flight last week was cancelled so I have not had the opportunity to "tip" or try to tip a NJA pilot.

Fly safe.

I think the major difference is the level of "personal" service and interaction a Fractional owner gets from the flight crew then airline passengers get. I fly for a fractional and occasionally get tips. I do not expect them but I am not offended to receive them either. If the owner feels he has gotten above average service and would like to tip I think that is fine.

 

[Indigo]

And for those who feel offended at receiving a tip, I would suggest accepting it with a smile and donating it your favorite charity. That way everyone can feel good about it.

Can't believe people get so wound up about these things!

 

[Humphreybogart]

Will You People Please Get A Life And Put An End To This Stupid Post.

 

[NJAowner]

Continued ...

x402--- CatYaak has it right -- you don't -- plain and simple. I do not tell you how to fly a plane and I can't believe you have the audacity or any basis or knowledge to opine regarding whether I derive any benefit from NetJets Europe. Please enlighten me as to your thought processes. The fact is I have. Since you are soooo smart, please prove me wrong ... or if any other business genius on this board can tell me whether I have (or have not) received benefits from Net Jets Europe -- I welcome the argument (but reserve the right to cut it short when I desire).

Also, x402 -- it was a leading question to see what many of you felt about regional jet pilots' pay. While they don't handle the bags and catering, all of the NetJets (and other frax) pilots knew this was part of their responsibilities when took the job. Bags and catering were not dropped on you as a surprise. If I had $1.00 for every post on this board compaining about regional pilots' pay, I'd own a G-V outright and not have a share of an Excel.

Also, let's face the plain and plane truth. Pilots love to fly and are willing to forego better opportunities to be able to fly. I know a doctor and a lawyer both of whom would prefer to be authors. I know some people who would rather be school teachers. They don't do it professionally because they want to earn more $$$. Unfortunately, the U.S. Constitution does not give every American the right to be highly compensated in the occupation of their choice. But it does give you choice. There are sacrifices to be made. Some people don't work in their "dream fields" but make more $$ which may have other benefits to the family, others live their dream (or try to) but it has financial risk or sacrifice. We are all big boys and make our own decisions. This board is full of ex-professional pilots, who now sell real estate or work in technology or are engaged in many other occupations in the name of financial security. I know this is harsh, I know many of you will flame me, but it is the truth. Very simply, Adam Smith called it the "Invisible Hand" of supply and demand. Many of you like to say why the supply is different. I have advocated for you to create an increased demand for the "qualified pilots".

Fly safe.

 

[Publishers]

Owner,

What they are quick to forget is that Netjets was one of the few aviation enterprizes with substanial growth since 1999 and that many of them would not even be employed in aviation had this company not been so successful.

Companies like Airtran who did not furlough after 2001 had 4 to 6000 resumes come in the door as did Netjets.

I don't know about you but I have trouble making the kind of money I used to today. If it is so bad there and better somewhere else, they should go take one of those high paid corporate jobs.

 

[350DRIVER]

Gawd, get off Netjetwife's back already about the tipping conversation with NJA owner.....it was a CONVERSATION initiated to get his feedback concerning his thoughts on tipping....nothing more.

My husband has received tips on 4 occasions in 6 years...he usually forgets to tell me about work "stuff", but has always been VERY appreciative of the tips and it was always the first thing he'd mention when calling home. One tip was received after the pax dog did his "thing" in the plane and my husband cleaned it up....ya think any NW captain would do that? Oh, AND he shared the tips (equally) with the SIC AND FA. Just want to be clear about the "tipping" issue. It's not expected, but is very appreciated. Drop the f'ing conversation about tipping now.

Netjetwife is a strong advocate of her family AND the Netjets pilots. PERIOD. What don't you understand about that? I think she's proven herself to be quite knowledgeable about most topics "discussed" on this board...as much, or more so than some of us. This is supposedly a place to hash out ideas and opinions. I've never found her posts to be personally insulting towards anyone and she backs up her opinions with the facts as she sees them. I'm in agreement with her.

What our husbands do for a living affects us personally, and THAT is why some of these "discussions" become heated. I am not a pilot, (I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night though!), but this "lifestyle" IS NOT an easy one for anyone involved. It's OUR LIVES being affected here, as well as our husbands' way of making a living. Geez, just BACK OFF. Personally, my husband's flying career has been a great "fit" for us....we're in the fight of our lives right now to achieve as much as we can to make it more financially rewarding as well as improving the other "issues" involved in the POS TA. It "happens" to be IMPORTANT to us RIGHT NOW.

What IDIOTS we would be IF we were to be passive little "wifey's" sitting back silently. Not this girl, and obviously not Netjetwife either.

You're WACKED if you don't understand, but hey, CARRY ON, as I'm sure you will.

I'm still SIKNTIRED

Did anyone else have to scratch their head after reading this from wifey #2?.

I seriously feel that you are venting over something that is out of your control. You are no pilot, you are not well versed with regards to this industry, you don't understand how it works, you are misinformed, the list can go on and on and on. I don't think you are doing much to help your cause on this board.

I stand by my previous posts, it was absolutely "classless" that Wifey #1 approached NJAowner in the manner that she did.

You two really need a reality check, do your husbands know that you are posting out of sheer frustration on a pilot message board?.

Once again, I wish the entire pilot group there much success, I have many friends there but exhibit a tad bit of "class" when you come on to a public message board.

3 5 0

 

[350DRIVER]

Grizz,

I agree with you, NJAowner may well "not" be an owner, I guess I was giving him the benefit of the doubt after reading his posts. In my opinion he does appear to be "legit". I am not "chastising" her for bringing this up to an owner, she just comes across as someone who is out of the loop and that does not understand this business and the way it works. In my opinion I just think it is classless and is pretty much a slap in the face to any pilot out there who is fighting for a better contract. No pilot should ever have to rely on "decent" tips to be able to make ends meet, management needs a reality check and this TA (I hope) will fail and ya'll will ultimately get what you deserve for all the hard work that you put it in time after time.

My reasons,

1) If pilots are compensated well enough by the company then a "tip" should not even be accepted or needed to make ends meet unless you donate it to charity, which I have done and I applaud you for doing this as well. Wifey #1 came across (atleast to me) as someone who more or less indirectly stated that this was "needed" in a way to make ends meet.

2) The owner is paying a substantial amount of money for the aircraft and exceptional service should be expected and given at all times. She advocates that "pilots going above and beyond the call of duty" are the ones who should warrant a tip?. What the fukc?. Every NJ, Flight Ops, CS pilot I have ever met has given the "expected" to service and are extremely professional at all times.

3) These two need to put things into perspective and understand where the problem is. Don't undercut this profession and it's pilots to come on a public board and paint us as people who cant make ends meet and fly for poverty wages who really appreciate tips, untrue in more ways than one and it is a slap in the face in more ways than one.

4) It is downright unprofessional in my opinion in the manner that she has posted and come across, my opinion.

I agree with you Griz on your other points, I do not know for sure who NJAowner is, you have brought up a good point.

Hope this better explains my position.

3 5 0
ex - 135 captain

 

[NJAowner]

The Wife

The discussion on tips is one thing. She is entitled to her opinion even if most of us disagree with it.

However, her suggestion of bringing starving children and spouses to picket at the FBOs is very low and shows just how desparate she is.

Griz .. be patient, I will call again. However, I will not give you my name, company name, contract number, etc. Will you provide me with your social security number, date of birth and bank account numbers so I can verify you really are the person you claim to be? Just because you give us your "name" doesn't prove you are who you say you are either. Please post a link to a scanned image of your NetJets photo ID and your passport. Then I will believe you really are who you say you are.