where is njaowner?

[xrated]

The questions I think we should ask the owner are: How do you think the owners would respond to informational picketing? Would it make an impression to see the pilots' wives and children holding signs at the FBOs

Please let me know when you plan on doing this. I'd be happy to "dirty up" my kids and loan them to you for a day or two. Though I don't live in CO, I have family up there and I could have them walk to and from the "line". They would get there all worn out from the walk and look even more pathetic. In fact, to support the plight of the Netjets pilot, I'd be willing to have them forego a few meals so they could beg for left over catering from the owners.

You and all Netjets pilots and families you "speak" for should be ASHAMED of such a comment. Its one thing to be a concerned spouce, but to drag kids into union picketing is obscene.

Lady, I've seen a lot of lows on this board, in fact, I've been involved with some, but this one is the low of all lows. You need a vacation and you need it soon.

 

[netjetwife]

And the debate continues---

Under what conditions do you three support pickets and strikes? Though, if you'll notice I said NOTHING about pilots "refusing to fly". But since the subject has been raised--what is the answer? WHEN is it appropriate, in your opinions, to picket and/or strike? And WHERE do you think it should take place? Have any of you ever "walked the line"? Since when is FIGHTING for a fair/earned contract equal to "whining and complaining"? BTW, we are "working in the proper manner using the proper forum". I asked the question on informational picketing STRICTLY for (self) educational purposes, and because the issue was raised by another wife in our support group. At this point, we are ONLY looking at our options.

Xrated, a reality check for you, sir: SHAME goes to the company that exploits its workers, NOT the families that fight corporate greed. OBSCENE is a pilot having to take GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE TO FEED HIS CHILDREN. My son understands that NJA's wages for the FOs entitles him to the "poor kid" lunch price at his public school, and that the "kick-ass" pay his father was promised was NOT delivered. Do you not understand that securing professional wages for NJ pilots will HELP all pilots in the fractional industry?

Owner, clearly, I need to read all of your posts prior to my joining this board. The FACT remains, however, that the wages of the pilots are paid from the management fees charged to the owners---a DIRECT link, whether any of us like it or not.

Dhc8ap, are you saying that it is UN professional to strike for higher wages?
Do you belong to a union, yourself? Are YOU happy with your contract? If so, my congratulations, but to pass judgement on the professionalism of pilots that are fighting for what others enjoy (industry average salaries) seems extremely callous and mean-spirited.

 

[Sctt@NJA]

Netjet Wife you are clearly a smart strong willed person. But you are in over your head here talking about things that you have no concept of. Thats fine but you manage to come across as a know it all at the same time. You are alienating people.

If you want to educate yourself on the issues you bring up there are better places than here. The dialog you are engaged in with NJAowner makes me cringe every time.

Even as a leader it is sometimes best to listen more than you talk until you have figured out what is going on.

We don't talk to owners about tipping... even when it is an "educational" conversation.

We don't talk to owners about possible job actions! Thats a big one.

What are you trying to accomplish on this message board? By asking this I am not in any way implying you don't have as much right as anyone else to post here. But clearly you have a purpose in mind. Do you think its working?

 

[xrated]

Xrated, a reality check for you, sir: SHAME goes to the company that exploits its workers, NOT the families that fight corporate greed.

The only reality check I need is for you to tell me you were joking about "exploiting" your children on a picket line. Were you honestly entertaining the idea of bringing your children to a line, informational or not?

There is no shame or obsenity in doing what you have to do to feed your kids, but even the thought of striking with them is disgusting.

I know you come from a military background and all, but welcome to the private sector. Corporate Greed, ha, show me an aviation related company that isn't greedy and I'll show you some beach front property in AZ.

 

[Hawkered]

I am fearful!

Netjet Wife:

You are causing many of us great concern for the apparent time you are putting into this project, at some apparent disregard for your more earthbound responsibilites!

You have made post after post in the middle of the night, quite often, in highly emotional language. I am concerned for your emotional state of mind, the welfare of your children and your inability to use this board in a way that preserves your anonymity.

Yes, I work for Netjets. Yes, my wife makes more than I do. Yes I also have another part-time job. In a time in history where hundreds of thousands of jobs are being exported, I find myself to be in a fortunate position.

Your rantings are doing nothing to garner support and sound like a spoiled officer's wife that has a history of being little more than a spoiled brat.

I am not telling you to eat cake...just put your time to better use. Go get a job!

 

[dhc8ap]

To NETJETWIFE

I do not belong to a union. I fly for a corporation.
"Fighting for what others enjoy" salary-wise???

I paid my dues-flying a 1900 out of Plattsburgh, NY in the wintertime for a net pay of $800/mo at Commutair. Followed by a 37% paycut at Piedmont as part of the bankrupcy concessions

Callous and mean-spirited-I think not.

I agree with you standing up for salaries-but be careful in the method in which you go about it. It will backfire.

You don't see a COEX F/O out there picketing with his children when he is on Food stamps.

It's all about dignity

 

[dime line]

DHC8AP.....It's all about dignity


Hu, well I can see that you have no Dignity.


I paid my dues-flying a 1900 out of Plattsburgh, NY in the wintertime for a net pay of $800/mo at Commutair. Followed by a 37% paycut at Piedmont as part of the bankrupcy concessions

That sounds like a lot of dignity on your part...yea right.

You wonder why COEX dosent do anything about there crapy pay, because they only hire 800TT hr pilots, who don't know any better.

 

[hbrow15]

You wonder why COEX dosent do anything about there crapy pay, because they only hire 800TT hr pilots, who don't know any better.

600tt now

 

[dime line]

Oh lovely

 

[netjetwife]

I'm in the process of gathering information, weighing options,getting feedback, and educating myself about the issues which directly impact my family. Is that not the purpose of boards like this? I also ask questions on behalf of the NJ Wives Online Support Group. (They read the board). I was not the wife that raised the subject of informational picketing, but having nothing against it on principal, I believed it was a suitable topic of conversation on this board. Was I wrong?

I have voiced my opinion --that we cannot act without guidance from OUR leaders, who ARE NOT the current MEC--to the wives. I see no harm in DISCUSSING all of the options. In our society we're always encouraged to ask questions, so I did. Furthermore, doing so here, helps the most frustrated members of my group to feel as if we are "doing" something other than sitting passively while others make decisions which affect our lives. It's generally accepted that women like to talk about things more than most men. Don't mistake my/our talk for imminent plans. We will not act unilaterally, and certainly not without talking to our husbands about it first.

Dhc8ap, are FOs at other companies also on food stamps? How sad! I do hope they will stand up for themselves, as well. No pilot's family should have to subsidise the salary. It's all about PRINCIPAL!

Hawkered, how are YOU voting on the TA? And who do you speak for? Who are these "many of us" that are so concerned? Could they be yes voters? That'd be nice! To calm your worries--my children are fine, my painting job is going beautifully, and I happen to be one of those people who don't need lots of sleep. Late posts are done between my emails to the wives. This daytime one--between loads of laundry. Satisfied?

Sctt, responses have been much more positive than negative, from both pilots and wives. If I "knew it all" I wouldn't be asking questions. My purpose in posting is 2-fold: educating myself by broadening my horizons, and "rallying the troops" by lending support and inspiring the wives to stand up for their families. Is it working? Absolutely! I'm learning a lot and the feedback from the wives has made all my late night work (after my daytime responsibilities) worth every hour of sleep I've missed. There are leaders among the NJA pilots that I trust to be objective about my posts here. If they ask me to stop posting, I will.

 

[Les Paul]

I'm in the process of gathering information, weighing options,getting feedback, and educating myself about the issues which directly impact my family. .

No... you appear to be in the process of mental illness. Your "OBSESSION" with this forum has become alarming. This is just a "chat" forum. Its not an "action" forum. You act as if your posts will make a difference. That is where your addiction becomes readily apparent.

I feel sorry for your poor family...

You have really got to log off for a week or two... or maybe 6 months.

Les Paul

 

[dukeofdub]

I feel sorry for your poor family... You have really got to log off for a week or two... or maybe 6 months. Les Paul

Les, Thank you for saying what needs to be said. Unfortunatly I think it will fall on deaf ears.

 

[Sctt@NJA]

28K for a NetJets Fo is an outrage no doubt about it. That needs to change and I will fight as hard as anybody to get that changed.

What you need to realize is that every one in aviation has sob stories. Yours is a drop in the bucket. Actually it doesn't even register on the scale.

People here on this board could give example after example of situations that are far worse than those that we suffer at NJA. I dont think you understand that it creates resentment to cry so loudly about our unfair treatment.

Of course working at NJA should not be a sob story at all. It should be a great place to be. Its no where near what it should be at the moment.

 

[xrated]

What you need to realize is that every one in aviation has sob stories. Yours is a drop in the bucket. Actually it doesn't even register on the scale.

Amen to that. Lady, you need to read up on what your husbands AA did to TWA pilots.

 

[netjetwife]

Just passing through---

Hi guys, I just stopped by to grab a few quotes for the wives. I've been asked how the T-word ... debate turned out. Want to see what she said?

"I fully believe the owners SHOULD tip the
pilots. My husband has received 3 tips over the past 3 years. It was like Christmas! He was always thankful and never embarrassed. He feels he works his tail off for the company and the owner and he appreciates any show of thanks from the owners. I do not believe it is unprofessional to receive tips and I fully support this practice. Let me know how it goes with the debate."


Xrated, he was only at AA for 4 months--June to Sept--laid off after 9-11. Hardly "his" AA, this job means more. He likes the flying better and we're meeting families and making friends. Because of our efforts. of course, otherwise we'd have still been an isolated group.

Sctt, I NEVER SAID WE HAD IT WORSE! Actually those who take the time to read my posts will see that I strongly urge ALL pilots to demand a fair wage and stand up for themselves. Resentment? Not once it is understood that I'd like to see decent salaries for all, regardless of who they work for. The supportive comments far outweigh the bad.

Gotta run..my group is waiting...lots of ladies to type to.

 

[English]

Well, of course a stay-at-home wife is going to like it when her husband gets a tip. Beats her going out to work to make the same money.

How embarrassing that you would even discuss (or beg for) tips on an open forum such as this.

You should really be ashamed. This is a forum for professional pilots, not beggars.

 

[Hawkered]

Let's see...Netjet Wife. You might be at home with your children in body, but certainly not in spirit. I cannot imagine the crap your children are trying to get through with you making posts on the internet after 2:00 am in the morning.

Maybe you can spend that big salary you're looking for on some counselling!

 

[rumpletumbler]

netjetswife, njawoner....hahahahahahahahaha..........lol.....whats next? njmechanic? njdispatcher? njpilotgirlfriend? at least its entertaining.

 

[Sctt@NJA]

Netjetwife, I have tried to help you understand some of the dynamics involved with these issues. You don't see anything of value in what I have told you?

You do not speak for all NJA wives. Even among the following you do have surely you understand that you can't talk on and on and expect everything you say to represent the feelings and ideas of your entire group.

You have said you are speaking on the behalf of the NJA wives. No you are not.

You are, frankly, talking a lot of crap.

You have said your purpose here is to educate yourself and to rally the troops. Yet you refuse to listen to anyone. Maybe you are accomplishing some rallying but it sure doesn't seem you are learning anything.

 

[Publishers]

Back

Going back to the question of informational picketing -- this could result in a significant backlash by these owners. They come to Netjets becasuse they believe in the program and it is less hassle for them than full ownership. In short, they do not want to mess with the details, they want to pay someone else to do all that type of activities.

First of all, any kind of picketing would be difficult as to discern the Netjets flights and secondly, find an access point you could picket. As most or many of their customers come and leave by limo, who are you trying to get to.

As I have said before, the competition here is with the owner just getting hsi own aircraft and flight crew. He may pay them slightly more, but, they will be the only crew and expected to handle all flights, paperwork, customer requests, baggage, etc., etc, No hard days off etc,

Owners at this level do not like attention and will tend to jump ship in a heartbeat if it looks like being with Netjets is a problem.