where is njaowner?

[Brett Hull]

Public elementary schools in Colorado---.40 cents, down from $1.80,
based on personal knowledge.

Your "Super-Duper, crosswind landing, viper driving, fighter jock husband can't get hired by a guard unit somewhere to get you off the government cheese?

 

[Brett Hull]

Not quite what I was getting at, but I understand your point 100%.

The point I was trying to make was, obviously netjetwife's husband is a sharp dude - you kinda have to be to be a fighter pilot. If the job he has now pays so poorly, and their financial position is so bad that we're discussing tips to cover extra income, there has to be something else out there he's qualified to do where he can make more money until you guys get this deal worked out (and I hope you guys get everything you're asking for...imo, you should be asking for more, you deserve it). My assumption was that him being a fighter pilot, he might enjoy getting back in the seat - and the paycheck that comes with it. He's definitely qualified for it.

I don't think any professional pilot should have to work two jobs to make ends meet, or "work another job to subsidize your flying habit", especially if you have a wife/husband/kids at home. But you have to do something to pay the bills if your primary job doesn't provide you enough income to pay them. And if you have to do it, it may as well be something you enjoy. And I'm also not saying "if you don't like it, quit". Someone has to stay there and fight for a change. I applaud both of you for doing your part.

Begging for a few bucks in tips ain't gonna pay the mortgage, though.

 

[doyouknowme]

NJA Owner a Moment Pt. 2

NJA Owner

Thank you for your reply. No, you really don’t know me, but I only carry an American Express.

Do you have employees? Do you pay them based upon their expertise, their experience and knowledge? Or do you split the group based on their seniority, project, or where they live?



You say you are paid fairly. Do you think the pilots would like a fair wage? I believe they would. I am paid for the services I perform for my company. I am paid a fair wage for the skills, experience and knowledge by the company I work for, but I believe the pilots at NJA are not. I have seen first hand the outlay of money the pilots must expend, sure some of it is reimbursable, but often times it is not. Life on the road is not easy for the pilots. They miss important dates, such as birthdays, anniversaries and holidays. They miss their children growing up, since they are gone for a half a year or better.



Moving to another company may not be an option for most. Many believe that NJA is the place to end their career, not start it. So please understand the frustrations of the pilots and their spouses, wondering why it seems hard to keep their families above the poverty level.



Thank you again for your time,

Doyouknowme



P.S. Do you own a boat? I have an anchor I’d be willing to give you.

 

[netjetwife]

Too many assumptions, Brett.

Not quite what I was getting at, but I understand your point 100%.

The point I was trying to make was, obviously netjetwife's husband is a sharp dude - you kinda have to be to be a fighter pilot. If the job he has now pays so poorly, and their financial position is so bad that we're discussing tips to cover extra income, there has to be something else out there he's qualified to do where he can make more money until you guys get this deal worked out (and I hope you guys get everything you're asking for...imo, you should be asking for more, you deserve it). My assumption was that him being a fighter pilot, he might enjoy getting back in the seat - and the paycheck that comes with it. He's definitely qualified for it.

I don't think any professional pilot should have to work two jobs to make ends meet, or "work another job to subsidize your flying habit", especially if you have a wife/husband/kids at home. But you have to do something to pay the bills if your primary job doesn't provide you enough income to pay them. And if you have to do it, it may as well be something you enjoy. And I'm also not saying "if you don't like it, quit". Someone has to stay there and fight for a change. I applaud both of you for doing your part.

Begging for a few bucks in tips ain't gonna pay the mortgage, though.

AF retirement pays the mortgage and "double dipping" is not allowed. I , too, thought he should be allowed to fly for the guard like so many airline pilots that did their time and got out. IMO, the pilots that serve until retirement are penalized for doing so, in that instance.

I deliberately said personal KNOWLEDGE instead of experience, when stating the reduced lunch price. AF retirement keeps that "wolf" from our door, BUT it is no thanks to NJA. THOSE wages DO qualify, and we have other FO/FO friends on WIC/food stamps. I'm speaking here for a number of wives, w/their blessing.

Like beytzim, my husband is exploring other options, as a back up plan. That said, we are committed to seeing this insulting TA soundly voted down. We realized after about 6 months that we'd been strung along, but tried to remain hopeful while he worked off the seatlocked 2yr training contract, which will be up in Jan. In the meantime, we're giving our all to this fight. If the TA (God forbid) were to pass, he will not be the only pilot bailing out. At that point, I'd hope that ALL owners would be concerned.

Brett ( also my brother's name), please be careful w/your choice of words also. There is a huge difference between "begging" and discussing. Nonetheless, it may interest you to know that tipping the pilots is not as uncommon as you seem to think. The other wives' husbands have also been tipped. NO ONE has asked for this, but the fact remains that some owners do recognize they have received special treatment---one of the things NJA is known for--and choose to show their appreciation accordingly. Apparently, those owners/px are following the etiquette rule for tipping which states: You do not tip the flightcrew UNLESS they have performed personal services above and beyond flying. Obviously, loading bags, serving catering, and arranging ground transportation, is viewed by many owners as going the "extra mile". Miss Manners has spoken.
NJW

 

[netjetwife]

I'm not the pilot. I don't get it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by netjetwife
Jeff is assigned to Centennial/Denver and flies in the Rockies quite a bit. Which airport do you fly into? He says that Telluride can be very difficult esp, in the winter. He had to land there on an icy runway with a strong cross wind.

Hmmmm....let's think about this for a minute....KTEX....9,078 field elevation....icy runway...6800x100ft runway....Yep, sounds pretty stupid to me.

Are you calling my husband stupid? Or are you suggesting that the instructions were stupid...dangerous? He was told to land there and did his best for the owner..

 

[Flyingdutchman]

Ahhh KTEX.. Been there, done it, got the t-shirt.. All single pilot C 310 ops. when I was 20 y/old.. Guess what I got paid for it..

 

[Sctt@NJA]

Quote:
Are you calling my husband stupid? Or are you suggesting that the instructions were stupid...dangerous? He was told to land there and did his best for the owner..

We are never "told to land" anywhere. The PIC and really both crew members have veto power over any flight operation that they feel is a bad idea. I don't know the situation that your husband faced so I can't and wouldn't comment if I thought it was stupid... or dangerous.

I am sure he painted a somewhat overly dramatic picture for you for entertainment value! None of the flights we do should so much as elevate a pilots heart rate. When I was young and foolish adrenalin rushes were a daily occurance. Now if I have one I know I did something I shouldn't have!

 

[lawfly]

Tips/Gratuities: Contradictions

NJAOwner..."Additionally, the degree of flying difficulty should be reflected in the tip. Flying in bad weather and/or landing on challenging runways, like those seen in the mountains, would suggest a larger tip/recognition of the effort expended by the flightcrew".
Netjetwife/LB

In a later post, netjetwife quotes "Miss Manners" as saying: "Don't tip the flight crew unless they have performed PERSONAL SERVICES ABOVE AND BEYOND FLYING." (emphasis supplied)

How are the above 2 quotes (posted by the same person) reconciled, if at all? There seems to be a contradiction here.

Regarding my earlier post regarding Part 91, Subpart K, 14 hour duty days, and netjetwife's response (she doesn't know, will ask her husband): If you don't know, that's okay. Point is the reg allows for 14 hour duty days. If they constitute a genuine safety issue, seems action at regulatory level (including official pre-enactment "comment") would have been appropriate. But just an observation. Pretty much out of this thread. Good luck to all.

 

[netjetwife]

Clearing up the confusion.

In a later post, netjetwife quotes "Miss Manners" as saying: "Don't tip the flight crew unless they have performed PERSONAL SERVICES ABOVE AND BEYOND FLYING." (emphasis supplied)

How are the above 2 quotes (posted by the same person) reconciled, if at all? There seems to be a contradiction here.

Regarding my earlier post regarding Part 91, Subpart K, 14 hour duty days, and netjetwife's response (she doesn't know, will ask her husband): If you don't know, that's okay. Point is the reg allows for 14 hour duty days. If they constitute a genuine safety issue, seems action at regulatory level (including official pre-enactment "comment") would have been appropriate. But just an observation. Pretty much out of this thread. Good luck to all.

I agree it seems inconsistant, but it is easily explained. In response to NJOwner's request for guidance in tipping (see earlier posts), my husband shared his thoughts, which I posted. He suggested the tip reflect the flight--good weather/bad weather. As the debate continued, I felt that it would be helpful to all if I could provide the correct etiquette rule that addressed tipping pilots. I did find and post the rule--Pilots aren't tipped UNLESS they perform personal services above and beyond flying the plane. Those pilots that are receiving a monetary "thank you" have flown owners/px that know and follow rules of etiquette, apparently. Or, also very likely, appreciate the extra efforts the pilots have made on their behalf and want, instinctively, to express their gratitude. In either case, these px are generally the more sophisticated members of our society, savvy on tipping, and I believe it is correct to follow their lead without hesitation. Once again, let me state quite clearly. I do NOT advocate asking, hinting, suggesting, etc for tips. When they are given freely, pilots should smile and say thank you. There is nothing demeaning or degrading about it. The tip is for going above and beyond the call of duty (flying). It is recognition that an extra effort was made and personal service given.

Just to pass on the results of my research--many websites talked of how confusing the question of tipping is (don't we know it!) and how it can be a source of stress and embarrassment for travelers. Knowing that, I'd urge any of you out there who got a tip --even if you only flew the plane--to graciously accept it and avoid embarrassing the px with a refusal.

I haven't had a chance to ask about 91K, but from a layperson's perspective and a wife's concern, I'd like to point out that there is a big difference between making allowances for the occassional 14 hr day, and scheduling them repeatedly because the company has a policy of "doing more with less" when it comes to its pilot force. The first is understandable, the latter unacceptable.

Good luck to you too, Lawfly!

 

[lawfly]

Tips/Gratuities; Speaking of Style & Sophistication...

Think/Research/Analyze first, write second. Less need for subsequent corrections. Make points concisely and correctly ab initio. Outta here!