where is njaowner?

[Les Paul]

I'm in the process of gathering information, weighing options,getting feedback, and educating myself about the issues which directly impact my family. .

No... you appear to be in the process of mental illness. Your "OBSESSION" with this forum has become alarming. This is just a "chat" forum. Its not an "action" forum. You act as if your posts will make a difference. That is where your addiction becomes readily apparent.

I feel sorry for your poor family...

You have really got to log off for a week or two... or maybe 6 months.

Les Paul

 

[dukeofdub]

I feel sorry for your poor family... You have really got to log off for a week or two... or maybe 6 months. Les Paul

Les, Thank you for saying what needs to be said. Unfortunatly I think it will fall on deaf ears.

 

[Sctt@NJA]

28K for a NetJets Fo is an outrage no doubt about it. That needs to change and I will fight as hard as anybody to get that changed.

What you need to realize is that every one in aviation has sob stories. Yours is a drop in the bucket. Actually it doesn't even register on the scale.

People here on this board could give example after example of situations that are far worse than those that we suffer at NJA. I dont think you understand that it creates resentment to cry so loudly about our unfair treatment.

Of course working at NJA should not be a sob story at all. It should be a great place to be. Its no where near what it should be at the moment.

 

[xrated]

What you need to realize is that every one in aviation has sob stories. Yours is a drop in the bucket. Actually it doesn't even register on the scale.

Amen to that. Lady, you need to read up on what your husbands AA did to TWA pilots.

 

[netjetwife]

Just passing through---

Hi guys, I just stopped by to grab a few quotes for the wives. I've been asked how the T-word ... debate turned out. Want to see what she said?

"I fully believe the owners SHOULD tip the
pilots. My husband has received 3 tips over the past 3 years. It was like Christmas! He was always thankful and never embarrassed. He feels he works his tail off for the company and the owner and he appreciates any show of thanks from the owners. I do not believe it is unprofessional to receive tips and I fully support this practice. Let me know how it goes with the debate."


Xrated, he was only at AA for 4 months--June to Sept--laid off after 9-11. Hardly "his" AA, this job means more. He likes the flying better and we're meeting families and making friends. Because of our efforts. of course, otherwise we'd have still been an isolated group.

Sctt, I NEVER SAID WE HAD IT WORSE! Actually those who take the time to read my posts will see that I strongly urge ALL pilots to demand a fair wage and stand up for themselves. Resentment? Not once it is understood that I'd like to see decent salaries for all, regardless of who they work for. The supportive comments far outweigh the bad.

Gotta run..my group is waiting...lots of ladies to type to.

 

[English]

Well, of course a stay-at-home wife is going to like it when her husband gets a tip. Beats her going out to work to make the same money.

How embarrassing that you would even discuss (or beg for) tips on an open forum such as this.

You should really be ashamed. This is a forum for professional pilots, not beggars.

 

[Hawkered]

Let's see...Netjet Wife. You might be at home with your children in body, but certainly not in spirit. I cannot imagine the crap your children are trying to get through with you making posts on the internet after 2:00 am in the morning.

Maybe you can spend that big salary you're looking for on some counselling!

 

[rumpletumbler]

netjetswife, njawoner....hahahahahahahahaha..........lol.....whats next? njmechanic? njdispatcher? njpilotgirlfriend? at least its entertaining.

 

[Sctt@NJA]

Netjetwife, I have tried to help you understand some of the dynamics involved with these issues. You don't see anything of value in what I have told you?

You do not speak for all NJA wives. Even among the following you do have surely you understand that you can't talk on and on and expect everything you say to represent the feelings and ideas of your entire group.

You have said you are speaking on the behalf of the NJA wives. No you are not.

You are, frankly, talking a lot of crap.

You have said your purpose here is to educate yourself and to rally the troops. Yet you refuse to listen to anyone. Maybe you are accomplishing some rallying but it sure doesn't seem you are learning anything.

 

[Publishers]

Back

Going back to the question of informational picketing -- this could result in a significant backlash by these owners. They come to Netjets becasuse they believe in the program and it is less hassle for them than full ownership. In short, they do not want to mess with the details, they want to pay someone else to do all that type of activities.

First of all, any kind of picketing would be difficult as to discern the Netjets flights and secondly, find an access point you could picket. As most or many of their customers come and leave by limo, who are you trying to get to.

As I have said before, the competition here is with the owner just getting hsi own aircraft and flight crew. He may pay them slightly more, but, they will be the only crew and expected to handle all flights, paperwork, customer requests, baggage, etc., etc, No hard days off etc,

Owners at this level do not like attention and will tend to jump ship in a heartbeat if it looks like being with Netjets is a problem.

 

[netjetwife]

Netjetwife, I have tried to help you understand some of the dynamics involved with these issues. You don't see anything of value in what I have told you?

You do not speak for all NJA wives. Even among the following you do have surely you understand that you can't talk on and on and expect everything you say to represent the feelings and ideas of your entire group.

You have said you are speaking on the behalf of the NJA wives. No you are not.

You are, frankly, talking a lot of crap.

You have said your purpose here is to educate yourself and to rally the troops. Yet you refuse to listen to anyone. Maybe you are accomplishing some rallying but it sure doesn't seem you are learning anything.

I NEVER claimed to speak for ALL wives of all the NJ pilots. JUST those members of the Online Support Group, whose backing I do have, and those in MY gateway that I communicate w/regularly.

Am I correct in my understanding of your comments---you believe that if someone disagrees with you that they have learned nothing? What about those pilots that also happen to to on the same side of the issue as I am? Or are you claiming to speak for them?

What "crap"?? Expressing a belief that pilots are professionals that should be paid as such? Pointing out that some of the owners DO TIP ? Stating that those tips ARE appreciated? (Why didn't you attack those pilots that posted on here that they had received and appreciated tips? ) Reporting that some wives are so fed up that they have ASKED the support group about informational picketing? You can shoot the messenger, but it doesn't change the situation.

 

[netjetwife]

Publishers, thank you for the feedback. All I was ever looking for was an academic discussion of the subject. I never envisioned anything dramatic at all. Maybe just a few wives holding signs so that they could feel as if they were taking a stand for themselves and their children. Our FBO is a quiet place, I doubt anyone would even have noticed. I'm just trying to convey the level of frustration among the wives that have waited 3 years for a contract, which we were all told would be "industry-leading" and "kick-ass", while in reality this TA is insulting and regressive. None of us would knowingly hurt our cause. We will only act under supervision of our leaders that will be voted into office next month.

Hawkered and English, apparently you are having problems discussing issues on an intelligent, academic level. Thus, you resort to unfounded, personal attacks. My children are proud of the stand I've taken on behalf of our family.

Located in the mt zone as I am, it is possible for me to chat with those wives on the west coast before they go to bed, and then to leave posts for those on the east coast to read when they get up. It's a system that works well for our group, and there is at least one other wife located in the middle of the country that is doing the same. Our common feeling of disgust with the TA is what drew us together, but the empathy and support we have found is what will keep the group going even after we achieve our goal of a good contract.

 

[Sctt@NJA]

Ok you just don't get it and probably never will. You have come on to a pilots message board and have established yourself as an authority on proper pilot tipping procedure. Thanks for the research, but forget about stupid tips. Screw TIPS!

You have talked about job actions in a way that demonstrates you have no understanding of the issue.

You have jumped into the fight over pilot compensation that we have all been engaged in our entire careers. This is great but you you are the newbie. You need to listen up when people who know more about these things than you do speak.

You disagree me with me? That's fine. That doesn't mean you haven't learned anything. But you sure are quick to shrug off all opposing viewpoints.

Not even really sure in what ways we disagree. I agree with all that you say about us needing to fight to make NJA a better place. I really just don't like the tipping talk, the "oh poor us, we are so taken advantage of" talk, and the "should I take my kids out and picket?" talk... directed to a possible owner!!!!!!

Please get a clue!

When you talk about tipping over and over and the proper way for owners to tip, and the proper way for pilots to accept tips and THEN claim that you would never ask for a tip on your husbands behalf.... excuse me but HUH???!!!! You just did! Right here on this thread!

The worst part is you seem to have been drawn to this thread because an apparent owner posts here. You have basically engaged an owner as a way of getting some kind of inside scoop. It is disgusting.

I don't expect any of this to sink in. I have about reached my limit and will stop posting now. (I think!... and unless I really can't help it!)

 

[netjetwife]

I reported my findings from an internet search and the feedback from the wives in my group--nothing more. I came to this board to "listen" to our NJ pilots discuss the TA w/other frac pilots. I entered a discussion of FO/FO pay--something I have personal experience with. The owner came later and was treated with much suspicion. I asked him 3 questions. HE CHOSE to reply to the tipping one. You may be against it, yourself, BUT it does take place. This thread will NOT change what some owners are doing---showing their appreciation. The owners that tip do so because they WANT to. At least I treated the owner with respect, others didn't. He could have ignored me but chose not to. It would have been rude of me NOT to answer his question, in turn.

Perhaps we disagree because of the different circumstances we are in. What is your pay? How hard are you working? How many 14hr days do you pull? My husband just did 2 in his last tour. Most days are 10-12hrs. The Excel pilots fly 4-6 legs/flights a day. What about your fleet? My husband tells me that those senior pilots w/easier work loads (1-2 flights) and more money are out of touch with the rest of the pilotforce--a majority that has been here less than 5 yrs, I believe. One final question-- perhaps the most telling of all, how are you voting on the TA and who do you support for MEC?

 

[Sctt@NJA]

Ok I am back already!

My pay? 4th year captain pay. Will be 5th year in November. Not having retirement money means I take home less than your husband.

When I started I made the same amount your husband does. Minus the military retirement money.

14 hour days? Your asking a NetJet pilot if he works 14 hour days like your husband does? ummm... YEAH. I started in the Ultra which your husband could tell you about. That and the 400xp are considered the "hardship" fleets mainly due to the lack of an APU. You can ask your husband what one of those is and why they are nice to have.

I fly the 800XP. You can ask your husband what one of those are.

Are you trying to pit me against your husband? We are on the same side. I just have a problem with YOUR (not your husbands) methods.

How am I voting on the TA? None of your business! (hint... if you really want to know do a search of my posts... I have made it very clear) How are you voting? Oh yeah you AREN'T!

Who do I support for MEC? ABSOLUTELY NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

Who are you going to vote for for MEC? Oh yeah... YOU DON'T GET TO VOTE for that either.