where is njaowner?

[NJAowner]

Good one Gunfyter

Good one Gunfyter.

Majik -- I do not know all of them but here are some for starters (of course you will laugh at some as being too minor but they did come from the owners): (1) minimum flight segment waivers, (2) waivers of ferry charges to/from Hawaii in certain circumstances, (3) adding parts of the Caribbean and Mexico to the destinations with out incurring ferry charges, (4) fixed ferry charge to/from Bermuda, (5) new cabin snacks (which benefit the crew more than the owners -- I know many of you like those new nuts and thin cookies), (6) upgraded beverage selection, (7) new seating configuration and luggage space (finally) in the Hawker 800.

NetJetWife -- I will try it on the next flight even though I am reluctant to do so. A $100 tip for the crew and I will let you know their reaction. As far as flyiong through difficult situations, there are probably thousands of posts on the board to the effect that the "good" pilots keep us out of trouble and avoid situations we are not even aware of so that we have an enjoyable flight. So to base a tip on that fact would result in the better pilots getting less tips.

G200 -- it is not strange that I am on the pilots website. I have 2 computers on my desk, a piece of an airplane and a NetJets bills every month. It is not like I am on dial-up from a hotel. I like to keep track of what is happening at the organization at which I have $$ tied up. Plus, sometimes you guys can be entertaining. That Beach Boy's "Camel-toe" song on one of the other boards has kept several in my office laughing for weeks.

Fly safe.

 

[Snakeplt]

Once again you have MISSED the point completely. What have you done to affect change for the PILOTS ? That was the ORIGINAL intent of the question posed WAY BACK in this thread. I don't care if you eat OREOs or WAFERS. And no, YOUR SNACK CHOICES do NOT make this a better job...sorry. KEEEEEP TRYING ! (Let me say again, you have NO responsibility to make ANY changes on our behalf...your answer just doesn't jive)

As for tipping. Just sit back and think for a moment how PITIFUL it is that a thread like this even needs to be discussed. THE PILOTS (and families) ACTIVELY ENGAGING AN OWNER REGARDING HOW MUCH THEY SHOULD TIP US....UN-FREAKING-BELIEVABLE !!! And how embarrassing ! Again, it doesn't matter to ANY OWNER at Nutjets how much we are paid...AND IT SHOULDN'T ! MANAGEMENT is who we have a HUGE $$$ PROBLEM WITH !!! We, the pilot group, need to vote this TA down and, if need be, shut this whorehouse down and provide more customers to FLOPS and CS ! That's the free economy bayyybeeeee !

As for those actually still thinking about coming here....PLEASE RE-READ this thread and ask yourself why Nutjet pilots are begging for tips. JUST SAY NO !

 

[NJAowner]

Am I actually agreeing with Snake?

As strange as it may seem, I agree with Snake's 2nd paragraph:

"As for tipping. Just sit back and think for a moment how PITIFUL it is that a thread like this even needs to be discussed. THE PILOTS (and families) ACTIVELY ENGAGING AN OWNER REGARDING HOW MUCH THEY SHOULD TIP US....UN-FREAKING-BELIEVABLE !!! And how embarrassing ! Again, it doesn't matter to ANY OWNER at Nutjets how much we are paid...AND IT SHOULDN'T ! MANAGEMENT is who we have a HUGE $$$ PROBLEM WITH !!! We, the pilot group, need to vote this TA down and, if need be, shut this whorehouse down and provide more customers to FLOPS and CS ! That's the free economy bayyybeeeee !"

I was just responding to some pilot's wife's request for tips.

But, I never said that the owners HAVE effected change for the pilots, just that we have the ability to do so. While management may not listen to the union or the pilots, it does listen to the owners. No owners = no planes = no need for pilots.

Fly safe.

 

[netjetwife]

This tipping talk makes me uncomfortable. Please do not feel like you need to tip the pilots.

I have accepted tips and been glad for the money. But it also makes me feel a bit dirty. However I would NEVER EVER ask for or hint about getting a tip. Thats way low and dirty.

So I just wanted to add my 2 cents and say please do not feel obligated to tip!

I want to make it absolutely clear that my husband does NOT ask/hint for tips. But they have been FREELY given and were appreciated, esp. by the Fo/FOs. There is nothing wrong with accepting recognition and thanks, in the form of a tip, for a job well done and service above and beyond what was mandated.

 

[Frac Daddy]

Huh?

But, I never said that the owners HAVE effected change for the pilots, just that we have the ability to do so.

And the owners won't. So what is your point?

 

[Majik]

But, I never said that the owners HAVE effected change for the pilots, just that we have the ability to do so. While management may not listen to the union or the pilots, it does listen to the owners.

Well don't hold back. Knock yourself out. You have my full permission to do whatever is in your power. It's only been three years. What are you waiting for, an invitation???

 

[beytzim]

NJAOwner, since you're on this site to watch and learn because you have lots of money invested in NJA, you must be sweating a little more than before.

I'm sure you've read by many of us like Griz, Diesel, Lear55 and Gunfyter that Boisture gave NJA's financials to our MEC. In those financials, the company is barely afloat. It's a miracle in itself that we have survived this long, let alone another 5 years. According to Boisture, we have much cost cutting to do. This, of course, will invariably directly affect your service.

In addition, Boisture has concluded that our famous business model is not working. The model of generating income from aircraft sales/resales is causing NJA to go into the red. We now have to dig into flight operations (read Monthly Management Fees) for additional sources of income. This undoubtly will require NJA to increase the MMA above the 3.75% annual increase.

We are already easily the most expensive fractional out there. Santulli said three years ago very confidently that FlexJet or Flight Options will go under pretty soon. That has not happened, and in fact, Options is growing and Citation Shares is proving to be a better option than the big 3 frac thus grabbing very valuable market share from us.

The writing is on the wall, my friend. It may be in your best interest to look elsewhere when your contract is up.

I.

 

[Live4flyng]

The writing is on the wall, my friend. It may be in your best interest to look elsewhere when your contract is up.

NJAOWNER, to add to this, Citation Shares has the Excel and will soon be able to upgrade you to the Sovereign. Netjets is going broke, so I fully expect the Sovereign order to be cancelled very soon. Crews have to pull the power back during ferry flights to save on gas, and maintenance items are being deferred at an enormous rate. Service from the flight crews continues to exceed expectations while increased pressure from management and scheduling only makes the job harder. Fatigue is another issue that is rearing its ugly head. Crews are working 14 hour days with show times at legal, and forced to sit around the FBOs until 12 hours of duty has elapsed in the event there aren't any flights. Obviously Netjets has oversold its capacity, operational inefficiencies and exorbitant crew salaries will soon bring the father of fractional aviation to a final conclusion. As for your tag line "Fly Safe".....safety starts with the company. Next time you fly, ask your crew how long they have been on duty and how much sleep they got the night before. If I were riding in the back, there are a few things I would like to know before the airplane moves.

1. How is the weather?

2. Is the crew well rested?

3. Is the airplane airworthy?

4. Is the beer cold?

 

[Some guy]

and maintenance items are being deferred at an enormous rate.

I can tell you that we defer items when the acft needs to fly. Once you stop in a maintenance facility, we get as much done as we can. Our big problem is the entertainment systems. When these items are deferred more than a week or so, it is usually because parts are not available. Otherwise we do everything in our power to give you an aircraft with no MEL's. The people I work with and myself are very pro-active about having maintenance done at the very first opportunity. Nobody has ever told me not to have the work done that needs to be done.

If I were riding in the back, there are a few things I would like to know before the airplane moves.

3. Is the airplane airworthy?

I can tell you that I would have absolutely no problems putting myself or my family on any QS tail number.

 

[miles otoole]

We are already easily the most expensive fractional out there. Santulli said three years ago very confidently that FlexJet or Flight Options will go under pretty soon. That has not happened, and in fact, Options is growing and Citation Shares is proving to be a better option than the big 3 frac thus grabbing very valuable market share from us.

What are these facts you speak of? How exactly are CS or FLEX better options?

 

[netjetwife]

Misunderstood again...

NJAowner, what is your position on tipping the pilots? Would you be embarrassed if it became public knowledge that one of your flight crew receives government assistance? Do you find it misleading to be told that there are two captains in every plane, when in reality there is one captain and one first officer that is forced to have a captain's rating but is paid much less than some of the limo drivers? I have no problem believing that you are an owner, as I truly am a wife.
Netjetwife

Owner, I am quoting myself to point out to you that I did not request a tip for my husband. I was simply trying to make the most of the opportunity of "speaking" to one of the owners, by asking about some of those issues that I have been curious about. You guys turned one of three questions into a plea and ignored the other two. My comments/guidelines on tipping were meant to help those owners that WANT to show their appreciation in that manner, if you are not in that group, owner, than by all means, do not tip the flightcrew. My advice (passed on from my husband) to make the tip reflect the difficulty of the flight refers only to those conditions obvious to the owner. Simply a suggestion that the owners that WANT TO TIP could look out the window and decide if it's going to be a good weather or bad weather tip for the pilots.

On another issue, I have a difference of opinion. Snake said, "Again, it doesn't matter to ANY OWNER at Nutjets how much we are paid...AND IT SHOULDN'T!"

I strongly disagree, for several reasons. The company has been lying to the owners by telling them that they had to raise prices to cover pilot salary increases, which the pilots did NOT receive. Wages are directly tied to the level of experience which the company will be able to attract and retain among its pilot force. Lack of experience has historically been linked to accidents. Pilots on strike for higher wages and a better contract WOULD impact the owners. Any sign of mismanagement, labor problems included, should be a concern to anyone with a financial investment in the company, including a share of an airplane. Then there is the question of basic fairness--do the owners think that it is right that their pilot is paid less than their limo driver? Will the wealthy be embarrassed if it becomes public knowledge that some of their pilots are receiving government assistance? Will the famous owners' reputations be tarnished when it comes out that many of their pilots are paid less than bus drivers and garbage collectors, just to name a few? If none of the above reasons matter to the owners, then the one mentioned in Live4flying's post definitely should. He advised the owners to ask if the flightcrew was well rested. We all know that the payscale is not the only part of a contract. The owners have a vested interest in the work rules that govern the conditions under which their pilots are working. They have every right to expect a rested, alert crew, rather than one that is fighting fatigue and has been grabbing nourishment when they could. 14 hour days and missed meals are not conducive to safety--that fact alone SHOULD concern the owners.

 

[Live4flyng]

Some Guy

I can tell you that I would have absolutely no problems putting myself or my family on any QS tail number.

After reading my post again, I realize it may have come off as Netjets is flying unsafe airplanes due to a lack of maintenance. That is NOT what I meant. I would have no problems putting anyone I know in the back of a QS airplane either, I know the crews would refuse to fly a broken airplane and ensure my safety. The point I was trying to make is, Netjets is claiming poverty and trying to cut costs everywhere they can. I would be concerned as an owner if everytime I climbed on an airplane the phone, CD player, seats, lights, toilet etc.....was deferred.

 

[Indigo]

Tips and other things

While I tend to agree with Snake's opinion that owners don't know or care what the pilots make, another part of me says that they would want the pilots to be paid fairly, whatever that is.

Think of people you know that provide a service to you. Do you have a favorite waiter or waitress? Do you hope they're being paid fairly? Do you give them bigger tips if they provide you with good service? Are the tips bigger if you think they need it?

I know some people might be upset with the waiter/waitress analogy but we are in the service business. I am a air-limo driver too, although I don't work for a fractional. And although I think it's a good thing to take your job seriously, some people take THEMSELVES too seriously.

Good luck to the Netjets pilots in their contract fight. A rising tide lifts all boats.

 

[netjetwife]

While I tend to agree with Snake's opinion that owners don't know or care what the pilots make, another part of me says that they would want the pilots to be paid fairly, whatever that is.
Good luck to the Netjets pilots in their contract fight. A rising tide lifts all boats.

Indigo, rather than restate my reasons why the owners should care about our CONTRACT--again, guys, it's more than the money--I'll refer you to my earlier post on the subject. I do so like your quote, though! Mind if I start using it? A rising tide lifts all boats. It conveys the point I keep making, with a lot less typing... Speaking of tides.... I do believe the tide is turning in our favor. There has been more positive support and constructive debate lately. Or is that because I put a certain toad on my Ignore List?...LOL

I was a waitress during my student days; your analogy doesn't bother me, and I'm certain my husband feels the same. He says receiving tips has made him even more aware of how those working for tips feel. It's not only money, it's recognition for your efforts, as well.
LB/NJW

 

[netjetwife]

It's a matter of won't not can't!

Live4flying, I don't buy the poverty bit--none of us should. Not when the company can pay cash for a hanger. Sounds like it's an allocation problem to me. Mismanaging funds is NOT the same as lacking the funds. If you buy a large brand new house and fill it w/worn furniture, can you tell the neighbors you're broke just because your furnishings aren't top of the line? How can a company that has been able to expand rapidly NOT be able to afford the cost of a professional pilot force? Obviously, the pilots' salaries have not been a high priority for NJA. It is up to all of us to change their minds! VOTE NO...No more building the business on the backs of the pilots, and the comfort/convenience of the owners.

Ironically enough, something that I'm always "preaching" to my kids can be applied to big businesses. They, too, must learn to take care of what they have if they expect to get something new. Pay the pilots an NBAA average-better salary, stop deferring mx on non-safety items, and THEN expand the business.
LB/NJW