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where is njaowner?

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If you want to take my reply to Netjets Owner and parse it, I'm sure you can make all sorts of arguements regarding regional pay vs fractional pay.
Besides, if the regional crew loaded my bags, made sure my food was just right and had my ground transportation waiting planeside, I'd probably tip them.
 
Gawd, get off Netjetwife's back already about the tipping conversation with NJA owner.....it was a CONVERSATION initiated to get his feedback concerning his thoughts on tipping....nothing more.

My husband has received tips on 4 occasions in 6 years...he usually forgets to tell me about work "stuff", but has always been VERY appreciative of the tips and it was always the first thing he'd mention when calling home. One tip was received after the pax dog did his "thing" in the plane and my husband cleaned it up....ya think any NW captain would do that? Oh, AND he shared the tips (equally) with the SIC AND FA. Just want to be clear about the "tipping" issue. It's not expected, but is very appreciated. Drop the f'ing conversation about tipping now.

Netjetwife is a strong advocate of her family AND the Netjets pilots. PERIOD. What don't you understand about that? I think she's proven herself to be quite knowledgeable about most topics "discussed" on this board...as much, or more so than some of us. This is supposedly a place to hash out ideas and opinions. I've never found her posts to be personally insulting towards anyone and she backs up her opinions with the facts as she sees them. I'm in agreement with her.

What our husbands do for a living affects us personally, and THAT is why some of these "discussions" become heated. I am not a pilot, (I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night though!), but this "lifestyle" IS NOT an easy one for anyone involved. It's OUR LIVES being affected here, as well as our husbands' way of making a living. Geez, just BACK OFF. Personally, my husband's flying career has been a great "fit" for us....we're in the fight of our lives right now to achieve as much as we can to make it more financially rewarding as well as improving the other "issues" involved in the POS TA. It "happens" to be IMPORTANT to us RIGHT NOW.

What IDIOTS we would be IF we were to be passive little "wifey's" sitting back silently. Not this girl, and obviously not Netjetwife either.

You're WACKED if you don't understand, but hey, CARRY ON, as I'm sure you will.

I'm still SIKNTIRED
 
NJAowner said:
Ms. NetJetWife

When you (or your husband when he is airlining to/from home) get off a commercial flight how and how much do you tip the pilots? Since the cockpit doors are locked, do you wait at the gate until they de-plane? Please let me know the details.

P.S. My flight last week was cancelled so I have not had the opportunity to "tip" or try to tip a NJA pilot.

Fly safe.
Click to expand...
I think the major difference is the level of "personal" service and interaction a Fractional owner gets from the flight crew then airline passengers get. I fly for a fractional and occasionally get tips. I do not expect them but I am not offended to receive them either. If the owner feels he has gotten above average service and would like to tip I think that is fine.
 
And for those who feel offended at receiving a tip, I would suggest accepting it with a smile and donating it your favorite charity. That way everyone can feel good about it.

Can't believe people get so wound up about these things!
 
Continued ...

x402--- CatYaak has it right -- you don't -- plain and simple. I do not tell you how to fly a plane and I can't believe you have the audacity or any basis or knowledge to opine regarding whether I derive any benefit from NetJets Europe. Please enlighten me as to your thought processes. The fact is I have. Since you are soooo smart, please prove me wrong ... or if any other business genius on this board can tell me whether I have (or have not) received benefits from Net Jets Europe -- I welcome the argument (but reserve the right to cut it short when I desire).

Also, x402 -- it was a leading question to see what many of you felt about regional jet pilots' pay. While they don't handle the bags and catering, all of the NetJets (and other frax) pilots knew this was part of their responsibilities when took the job. Bags and catering were not dropped on you as a surprise. If I had $1.00 for every post on this board compaining about regional pilots' pay, I'd own a G-V outright and not have a share of an Excel.

Also, let's face the plain and plane truth. Pilots love to fly and are willing to forego better opportunities to be able to fly. I know a doctor and a lawyer both of whom would prefer to be authors. I know some people who would rather be school teachers. They don't do it professionally because they want to earn more $$$. Unfortunately, the U.S. Constitution does not give every American the right to be highly compensated in the occupation of their choice. But it does give you choice. There are sacrifices to be made. Some people don't work in their "dream fields" but make more $$ which may have other benefits to the family, others live their dream (or try to) but it has financial risk or sacrifice. We are all big boys and make our own decisions. This board is full of ex-professional pilots, who now sell real estate or work in technology or are engaged in many other occupations in the name of financial security. I know this is harsh, I know many of you will flame me, but it is the truth. Very simply, Adam Smith called it the "Invisible Hand" of supply and demand. Many of you like to say why the supply is different. I have advocated for you to create an increased demand for the "qualified pilots".

Fly safe.
 
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Owner,

What they are quick to forget is that Netjets was one of the few aviation enterprizes with substanial growth since 1999 and that many of them would not even be employed in aviation had this company not been so successful.

Companies like Airtran who did not furlough after 2001 had 4 to 6000 resumes come in the door as did Netjets.

I don't know about you but I have trouble making the kind of money I used to today. If it is so bad there and better somewhere else, they should go take one of those high paid corporate jobs.
 
sikntired said:
Gawd, get off Netjetwife's back already about the tipping conversation with NJA owner.....it was a CONVERSATION initiated to get his feedback concerning his thoughts on tipping....nothing more.

My husband has received tips on 4 occasions in 6 years...he usually forgets to tell me about work "stuff", but has always been VERY appreciative of the tips and it was always the first thing he'd mention when calling home. One tip was received after the pax dog did his "thing" in the plane and my husband cleaned it up....ya think any NW captain would do that? Oh, AND he shared the tips (equally) with the SIC AND FA. Just want to be clear about the "tipping" issue. It's not expected, but is very appreciated. Drop the f'ing conversation about tipping now.

Netjetwife is a strong advocate of her family AND the Netjets pilots. PERIOD. What don't you understand about that? I think she's proven herself to be quite knowledgeable about most topics "discussed" on this board...as much, or more so than some of us. This is supposedly a place to hash out ideas and opinions. I've never found her posts to be personally insulting towards anyone and she backs up her opinions with the facts as she sees them. I'm in agreement with her.

What our husbands do for a living affects us personally, and THAT is why some of these "discussions" become heated. I am not a pilot, (I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night though!), but this "lifestyle" IS NOT an easy one for anyone involved. It's OUR LIVES being affected here, as well as our husbands' way of making a living. Geez, just BACK OFF. Personally, my husband's flying career has been a great "fit" for us....we're in the fight of our lives right now to achieve as much as we can to make it more financially rewarding as well as improving the other "issues" involved in the POS TA. It "happens" to be IMPORTANT to us RIGHT NOW.

What IDIOTS we would be IF we were to be passive little "wifey's" sitting back silently. Not this girl, and obviously not Netjetwife either.

You're WACKED if you don't understand, but hey, CARRY ON, as I'm sure you will.

I'm still SIKNTIRED
Click to expand...
Did anyone else have to scratch their head after reading this from wifey #2?.

I seriously feel that you are venting over something that is out of your control. You are no pilot, you are not well versed with regards to this industry, you don't understand how it works, you are misinformed, the list can go on and on and on. I don't think you are doing much to help your cause on this board.

I stand by my previous posts, it was absolutely "classless" that Wifey #1 approached NJAowner in the manner that she did.

You two really need a reality check, do your husbands know that you are posting out of sheer frustration on a pilot message board?.

Once again, I wish the entire pilot group there much success, I have many friends there but exhibit a tad bit of "class" when you come on to a public message board.

3 5 0
 
Grizz,

I agree with you, NJAowner may well "not" be an owner, I guess I was giving him the benefit of the doubt after reading his posts. In my opinion he does appear to be "legit". I am not "chastising" her for bringing this up to an owner, she just comes across as someone who is out of the loop and that does not understand this business and the way it works. In my opinion I just think it is classless and is pretty much a slap in the face to any pilot out there who is fighting for a better contract. No pilot should ever have to rely on "decent" tips to be able to make ends meet, management needs a reality check and this TA (I hope) will fail and ya'll will ultimately get what you deserve for all the hard work that you put it in time after time.

My reasons,

1) If pilots are compensated well enough by the company then a "tip" should not even be accepted or needed to make ends meet unless you donate it to charity, which I have done and I applaud you for doing this as well. Wifey #1 came across (atleast to me) as someone who more or less indirectly stated that this was "needed" in a way to make ends meet.

2) The owner is paying a substantial amount of money for the aircraft and exceptional service should be expected and given at all times. She advocates that "pilots going above and beyond the call of duty" are the ones who should warrant a tip?. What the fukc?. Every NJ, Flight Ops, CS pilot I have ever met has given the "expected" to service and are extremely professional at all times.

3) These two need to put things into perspective and understand where the problem is. Don't undercut this profession and it's pilots to come on a public board and paint us as people who cant make ends meet and fly for poverty wages who really appreciate tips, untrue in more ways than one and it is a slap in the face in more ways than one.

4) It is downright unprofessional in my opinion in the manner that she has posted and come across, my opinion.

I agree with you Griz on your other points, I do not know for sure who NJAowner is, you have brought up a good point.

Hope this better explains my position.

3 5 0
ex - 135 captain
 
The Wife

The discussion on tips is one thing. She is entitled to her opinion even if most of us disagree with it.

However, her suggestion of bringing starving children and spouses to picket at the FBOs is very low and shows just how desparate she is.

Griz .. be patient, I will call again. However, I will not give you my name, company name, contract number, etc. Will you provide me with your social security number, date of birth and bank account numbers so I can verify you really are the person you claim to be? Just because you give us your "name" doesn't prove you are who you say you are either. Please post a link to a scanned image of your NetJets photo ID and your passport. Then I will believe you really are who you say you are.
 
350DRIVER......Wifey #1 came across (atleast to me) as someone who more or less indirectly stated that this was "needed" in a way to make ends meet.

Right or Wrong...Did you ever think that maybe they as a family do need the tip money to make ends meet. We all know the high paid co-pilots at NJ
 
However, her suggestion of bringing starving children and spouses to picket at the FBOs is very low and shows just how desparate she is.
Click to expand...

Classless as well, enough said.


350DRIVER......Wifey #1 came across (atleast to me) as someone who more or less indirectly stated that this was "needed" in a way to make ends meet.

Right or Wrong...Did you ever think that maybe they as a family do need the tip money to make ends meet. We all know the high paid co-pilots at NJ
Click to expand...
Understandable, BUT this is not the "owners" problem. The solution (which I sure hope happens) is that they turn this TA down and get what they deserve. My thoughts and prayers go out to these pilots but there is a professional manner in which to handle and go about doing things which I tend to think these two have not done.

As I previously stated, I wish the entire NJ pilot group the best of both worlds. It seems as if they are truly united so that should make a difference in the near future.

3 5 0
 
Griz said:
The individual posting as "NJAOwner" has had many opportunities to prove his claim that he is an owner. I've offered to provide verification that he is who he says he is. He has so far refused to do so. Until he does, he's no different to me than the guy that posts on a message board claiming to be Bill Clinton, Rasputin or Howdy Doody.

To be fair, he has called me once from a number that had caller ID blocked and left a message on my machine. He still has my number and I'm not hard to get ahold of.

I enjoy his posts because they are thoughtful but I don't give any credence to his claims. Before one of the militant "anti-NetJets pilots" group attacks me for trying to "enforce" some standard on this public board, get over it. NJAOwner chooses to post here under that name without providing proof...no one forces him to do so. He chose that screen name for a reason. Until he provides proof, I've gotta assume he's a 15 year old sitting behind a computer screen getting his jollies playing a business tycoon. I'll treat him as such until I learn differently.
Click to expand...
Basically, you're calling him a liar, even after he extended the GENEROSITY (you have no right to expect him to, so it can't be considered a "courtesy") of calling you, but you're the one who didn't pick up the phone....that's not only you're problem, but would point to you not "being easy to get ahold of" despite your claim to the contrary. And even after extending you another generosity by leaving a message..you are so discourteous that you go on to say here publicly that you still "have to assume he's a 15 year-old getting his jollies"? That's pretty rude, and one wonders why you can't tell the difference between the voice of a grown man and a child like you can't tell the difference between someone who's against you and a potential ally.

From the numerous posts he's written on this board, what I see is an owner who is basically sympathetic to the pilots, values their work, and keeps a personal interest in something he's invested in, being publicly asked to jump through hoops by you, the self-appointed Gatekeeper of Worthy Opinions. This observation of mine isn't an "attack" Griz (get over that persecution complex, would you?), but simply, and sadly, what you're doing is laughable.

It's sad because NetjetsOwner actually offers good feedback from the cabin...one of those paying ALL the bills....who's NEVER insulting here or been "anti-pilot", and you're insulting him with this childish, in-your-face, vetting process on a public board ("Cmon, I DOUBLE dog dare ya to prove who you are!). Frankly, the way he tolerates you on this matter is proof to me that he's exactly who he says he is, the ability to see the big picture and take all things including the "squeakier wheels" in stride being qualities needed to run sucessful businesses.

It seems to me if he remains on your side regarding raising the wages for pilots (and having some owners on your side would undoubtedly be a good thing), it will be despite you, not because of you.
 
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Seeing both sides...

Cat Yaaak, I do believe that is one of your better posts. You stuck to the issue and were only mildly patronizing--progress for you. Ready for a surprise? I finding myself agreeing with most of your post. But then, it is my personal style to want to believe the best of people, until I'm proven wrong. Furthermore, I freely admit that I am a novice at posting on boards like this. Griz, on the other hand, has plenty of experience and has a strong case of "once bitten, twice shy", I suspect. Any of us can miss a phone call, CY. And I can assure you that Griz is, indeed, who he says he is. I do WISH he could believe the owner, but I don't FAULT him for being unable to.
 
netjetwife said:
Cat Yaaak, I do believe that is one of your better posts. You stuck to the issue and were only mildly patronizing--progress for you. Ready for a surprise? I finding myself agreeing with most of your post. But then, it is my personal style to want to believe the best of people, until I'm proven wrong. Furthermore, I freely admit that I am a novice at posting on boards like this. Griz, on the other hand, has plenty of experience and has a strong case of "once bitten, twice shy", I suspect. Any of us can miss a phone call, CY. And I can assure you that Griz is, indeed, who he says he is. I do WISH he could believe the owner, but I don't FAULT him for being unable to.
Click to expand...
Hey, no fair being nice to me! Darn it, now I'm at a loss for words....

....(3-5 paragraphs of smart-assy post not written)....

Now, see what you've gone and done?

As always, I hope everyone gets raises.

Catyaaak (trying to recover from this dastardly Nice Attack)
 
more ...

Griz: no need to send a link to your "butt-ugly" picture. Of course, if it looked like Heather Locklear's butt, it would not be so ugly. But that is another thread. All I was trying to point out is just because you post a name, it doesn't prove your are that person. In order to rremain constructive, let's drop this issue for a while.

x402: First or all, you may be trying to prove you are the "silly pilot" (I have always refrained from any name calling on these posts, but you called yourself it). While NJA may have been revolutionary in creating the frax market, using profits from profitable opperations to fund loses in expansion is not a novel business concept. It has been around for a few thousand years. You said "NJA owners are not going to derive any perks from their financing of Netjets Europe". First of all many owners are aware of this and are able to make their own decisions. Secondly, the main topic on this board revolves around pilots wanting more $$$, not owners complaining about their management fees (have I ever said that -- in fact I said the price elasticity of demand -- Griz not a word for a 15 year old -- would allow for a moderate increase in fees to cover pilot wages if value is perceived). Thirdly, a short time ago, a close family member became very ill in a remote part of Europe. Air Ambulances were not available and the next flight out was about 14 hours later with a connection to London. NJE had a plane available in 2 hours, which got to London and then onto a premier medical facility. With the problem, while very serious and debilitating, time was an important issue but not immediate life or death. Plus further diagnosis was needed to be sure. Not only did NJE come up with this plane quickly, within 2 1/2 hours my wife and I were opn a G-IV from New Jersey to the U.K. -- without an upgrade charge and without a ferry charge. (Griz -- quick, hit the computers and your sources and figure this out -- then you will know my identity. If you do, PM me and I will treat you and your wife to a meal at the restaurant of your choice in that big city close to you, or the much bigger one a little north of you. Really.) Now x402, did I receive any perk or benefit from helping establish NJE -- you bet. But you don't think so. IN fact, a good number (but not a majority) of the US owners have enjoyed using NJE for business or pleasure.

Fly safe.
 
Excuse me, sir?

I'd just like to point out that at NJA it's about FAR MORE than "pilots wanting more money". The TA is flawed in all areas. Scope is very weak, the work rules unfriendly to single pilots and families, alike, and the payscale for FOs STOPS at year 5. For Captains the freezes occur at years 10, 14, and 15 depending on the PBW category. Clearly, the TA lacks vision and places NO value on loyalty. NJW
 

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