When can AirTran dump ALPA?

[Kenney G]

The aircraft that are being used to replace the 717s are all aircraft that could have been used to grow SWA, not to provide seats for 1100 pilots who are no longer bringing seats to acquisition.

Didn't SWA buy all of AirTran? AirTran brought all of their airplanes with them. Swa decided later to sell them. Should Northwest pilots have taken a bigger hit since the DC9's have now all but disappeared?

 

[vixin]

Quote:
01/27/2010 CEO Robert Fornaro addressed the issue during a conference call Wednesday to discuss the airline's fourth-quarter financial results. QUESTION: How do you view the industry landscape and your prospects for growth in an improving economy?


Quote:


RESPONSE: "It's not our plan to scour the market and look for new planes. ... Right now, it's financial success first for us."




Quote:
2010-04-22
Quote:


ATLANTA -- AirTran Airways isn't putting up a for-sale sign, but the CEO of the discount carrier said Wednesday it would consider a combination with another carrier if approached and if such a deal made sense for the company and shareholders. CEO Robert Fornaro made the comments during a conference call with investors to discuss the airline's first-quarter financial results. Higher fuel prices stung AirTran, causing the usually profitable airline to post a $12 million loss for the first three months of the year.




Quote:
2009-02-06
Quote:


Comments ATLANTA (Map, News) - Discount carrier AirTran Airways doesn't expect any overall growth for two years as it tries to weather the severe downturn in the U.S. economy, though it will add service in Milwaukee in a renewed effort to gain market share there, Chief Executive Robert Fornaro said Thursday. Fornaro told a gathering of analysts at the Raymond James & Associates Growth Airline Conference that AirTran will cut capacity in 2009 and likely will be flat in terms of capacity in 2010, but in 2011 it could (doesnt mean it would) grow at least 5 percent. In the meantime, it will make a push in Milwaukee.

Quote:


AirTran pilots to picket outside annual meeting

Originally published: May 17, 2010 4:37 PM
By The Associated Press HARRY R. WEBER (AP Airlines Writer)
ATLANTA - (AP) ? AirTran Airways' pilots plan to picket outside the discount carrier's annual meeting to step up pressure on management over the workers' more than five-year effort to secure a new contract with better wages and quality-of-life improvements.
They also expect to announce during Tuesday's shareholders' meeting in Milwaukee that rank-and-file pilots have authorized the union to call a strike if it chooses.
At stake is AirTran's low-cost advantage over larger rivals that has allowed it to lead the way on fare sales and usually still turn a profit. AirTran posted a small loss for the first quarter but said it expects future cost pressures from fuel and maintenance. Additional labor costs could further affect its bottom line.

There is more but you get the point.

 

[redflyer65]

That wasn't our choice. It was SWA's. We were along for the ride. We were told they were staying.

Completely agree 27. That's why you should have least had a re-bid.

So if the arbiter rules for a re-bid at this point, would it matter? Not throwing flame, but thinking it might be too late to make a difference. Thoughts?

 

[27 driver]

Quote:
01/27/2010 CEO Robert Fornaro addressed the issue during a conference call Wednesday to discuss the airline's fourth-quarter financial results. QUESTION: How do you view the industry landscape and your prospects for growth in an improving economy?


Quote:


RESPONSE: "It's not our plan to scour the market and look for new planes. ... Right now, it's financial success first for us."




Quote:
2010-04-22
Quote:


ATLANTA -- AirTran Airways isn't putting up a for-sale sign, but the CEO of the discount carrier said Wednesday it would consider a combination with another carrier if approached and if such a deal made sense for the company and shareholders. CEO Robert Fornaro made the comments during a conference call with investors to discuss the airline's first-quarter financial results. Higher fuel prices stung AirTran, causing the usually profitable airline to post a $12 million loss for the first three months of the year.




Quote:
2009-02-06
Quote:


Comments ATLANTA (Map, News) - Discount carrier AirTran Airways doesn't expect any overall growth for two years as it tries to weather the severe downturn in the U.S. economy, though it will add service in Milwaukee in a renewed effort to gain market share there, Chief Executive Robert Fornaro said Thursday. Fornaro told a gathering of analysts at the Raymond James & Associates Growth Airline Conference that AirTran will cut capacity in 2009 and likely will be flat in terms of capacity in 2010, but in 2011 it could (doesnt mean it would) grow at least 5 percent. In the meantime, it will make a push in Milwaukee.

Quote:


AirTran pilots to picket outside annual meeting

Originally published: May 17, 2010 4:37 PM
By The Associated Press HARRY R. WEBER (AP Airlines Writer)
ATLANTA - (AP) ? AirTran Airways' pilots plan to picket outside the discount carrier's annual meeting to step up pressure on management over the workers' more than five-year effort to secure a new contract with better wages and quality-of-life improvements.
They also expect to announce during Tuesday's shareholders' meeting in Milwaukee that rank-and-file pilots have authorized the union to call a strike if it chooses.
At stake is AirTran's low-cost advantage over larger rivals that has allowed it to lead the way on fare sales and usually still turn a profit. AirTran posted a small loss for the first quarter but said it expects future cost pressures from fuel and maintenance. Additional labor costs could further affect its bottom line.

There is more but you get the point.

Not sure what you are saying but exactly how much has SWA grown since late 2008? Without the AAI deal the answer is 0%. Everyone was stagnant. The economy sucked, the age 65 rule ********************ed us, and there was no growth anywhere. SWA is not immune to economic forces. I just hope GK has some big plans for the future or we are all stewed. Nobody likes 15 to 20 year upgrades.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

"It wasn't do we grow Southwest, or do we buy AirTran? It was, we need AirTran, so we can grow in the future," Mr. Kelly said.

He's your CEO.

 

[canyonblue]

"It wasn't do we grow Southwest, or do we buy AirTran? It was, we need AirTran, so we can grow in the future," Mr. Kelly said.

He's your CEO.

Yeah, yeah you've quoted him many times before. You know, they guy who you claim is a big liar.

 

[redflyer65]

And again, Gary got Airtran at a discount. If it cost 2X or 3X more, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. It's that simple.

 

[27 driver]

Completely agree 27. That's why you should have least had a re-bid.

So if the arbiter rules for a re-bid at this point, would it matter? Not throwing flame, but thinking it might be too late to make a difference. Thoughts?

I don't think a rebid will work. What about the guys that already crossed. They may want to change their bids with the new reality. There is no unscrewing this pooch. There are out of seniority transitions that are pissing off many AAI FO's. There are 2010 hires that already transitioned. When SWA decided to disregard the transition award after the 717 deal was made a rebid may have worked. Now it would be an effort in futility. We just have to let this play out and hope for the best. One thing for sure is it's going to suck on our side of the house for the next year or so.

 

[Britpilot]

One thing for sure is it's going to suck on our side of the house for the next year or so.

It already does.

 

[Tripower455]

We are not actually showing up without airplanes. We had a bunch of orders...some of which have been exercised and more to come Plus the 73's that have transitioned. Our 717's are supposed to be replaced on nearly a 1 to 1 basis. That is what has been rumored anyway. Now lawsuits from SWAPA. Funny. What is the basis of the lawsuit. How is there harm. The only thing SWA owes you is monthly guarantee. As long as you get that you will be hard pressed to show harm. Besides all you guys told us many times that you knew the 71's were leaving. Armed with that knowledge you voted on an SLI. One that SWAPA made sure couldn't be changed in arbitration. Now you want it changed. Looks like there is not much LUV at LUV anymore.

Minimum guarantee or not, I am in the top 25% of the company, and I'm projecting to make roughly $25k less than I did every year in the last 7 years or so, working the same number of days. All due to overmanning and "capturing" the AT captain seats.

No harm......

 

[Just thinking]

"Besides all you guys told us many times that you knew the 71's were leaving. Armed with that knowledge you voted on an SLI."

Once again for the slow ones in the classroom......................
Yes they were leaving.... starting in 2017
The bid that we were told that was binding for all. The bid that stated they would start to leave in 2017 and the last one would not be gone until 2024 or so. The bid that every pilot from the Airtran side would be held to. The bid that was subverted because gk lied to FAT and RSW pilots alike. The bid that has now made a mockery of the seniority list.

What would you say to your beloved gk if he had the RSW pilot group bid on aircraft specific? Maybe 300/500's that were in HOU and DAL? All other bases would be 700/800. Same pay for all aircraft. You bid and are awarded your aircraft and your base of choice. Six months later gk changes his mind and now the 700/800 will have a higher pay rate and the 300/500 will be going away but you are seat locked and your lines will diminish in value. You can't change bases. You can't change planes. You are seat locked while a new hire off of the street will stroll right into aircraft that you want. There will be an flurry of upgrades from the senior FO's into the left seat of the 700/800 that you want. they will flood those left seats with pilots that are junior to you and you have no control over the situation. Finally as the last 300/500 aircraft go away they bring over the 700/800 from other stations but there is no room for you.

Feel good about the lies that gk told you? Feel the luv?

 

[freightdogfred]

Minimum guarantee or not, I am in the top 25% of the company, and I'm projecting to make roughly $25k less than I did every year in the last 7 years or so, working the same number of days. All due to overmanning and "capturing" the AT captain seats.

No harm......

Well, if it makes you feel any better you're not the Lone Ranger.

 

[Tripower455]

Well, if it makes you feel any better you're not the Lone Ranger.

Well, I keep hearing from the AT guys that there was "no harm" done on the SW side as a result of this acquisition, and that simply isn't the case.

I'm above most of the major damage done to the list, and yet it still affects me. And I am not even close to the only one. Folks are just starting to realize just how bad this entire debacle has and is going to be.

One Luv......

 

[27 driver]

"Besides all you guys told us many times that you knew the 71's were leaving. Armed with that knowledge you voted on an SLI."

Once again for the slow ones in the classroom......................
Yes they were leaving.... starting in 2017
The bid that we were told that was binding for all. The bid that stated they would start to leave in 2017 and the last one would not be gone until 2024 or so. The bid that every pilot from the Airtran side would be held to. The bid that was subverted because gk lied to FAT and RSW pilots alike. The bid that has now made a mockery of the seniority list.

What would you say to your beloved gk if he had the RSW pilot group bid on aircraft specific? Maybe 300/500's that were in HOU and DAL? All other bases would be 700/800. Same pay for all aircraft. You bid and are awarded your aircraft and your base of choice. Six months later gk changes his mind and now the 700/800 will have a higher pay rate and the 300/500 will be going away but you are seat locked and your lines will diminish in value. You can't change bases. You can't change planes. You are seat locked while a new hire off of the street will stroll right into aircraft that you want. There will be an flurry of upgrades from the senior FO's into the left seat of the 700/800 that you want. they will flood those left seats with pilots that are junior to you and you have no control over the situation. Finally as the last 300/500 aircraft go away they bring over the 700/800 from other stations but there is no room for you.

Feel good about the lies that gk told you? Feel the luv?

Dude, I am on the AAI side. I think you misread my post.

 

[Ty Webb]

Well, I keep hearing from the AT guys that there was "no harm" done on the SW side as a result of this acquisition, and that simply isn't the case.

I'm above most of the major damage done to the list, and yet it still affects me. And I am not even close to the only one. Folks are just starting to realize just how bad this entire debacle has and is going to be.

One Luv......

Tripower, the "No SWA pilot harmed" comes from a quote by Steve C. it's often thrown around as an ironic punchline.

 

[27 driver]

Minimum guarantee or not, I am in the top 25% of the company, and I'm projecting to make roughly $25k less than I did every year in the last 7 years or so, working the same number of days. All due to overmanning and "capturing" the AT captain seats.

No harm......

Tri,

I don't know where all the flying went. You guys had a lot of flying, we had a lot of flying.....now nobody is flying. I really hope there are big plans for SWA's future. I just don't see how SWA can absorb 1800 pilots into 10 bases. Looks like a few years of min guarantee.

 

[Tripower455]

Tripower, the "No SWA pilot harmed" comes from a quote by Steve C. it's often thrown around as an ironic punchline.

Yup, but it has been parroted, ad nauseum, by the AT folks ever since.

 

[Tripower455]

Tri,

I don't know where all the flying went. You guys had a lot of flying, we had a lot of flying.....now nobody is flying. I really hope there are big plans for SWA's future. I just don't see how SWA can absorb 1800 pilots into 10 bases. Looks like a few years of min guarantee.

I completely agree! This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone FWIW.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Thank god we are hiring. That will help things a little.

 

[Tripower455]

Thank god we are hiring. That will help things a little.

For sure....

I can't wait for the "synergies" to REALLY kick in!