When can AirTran dump ALPA?

[madjack]

"It's also eye-opening to read the rep's views on AirTran pilots in general."

I only read the contract, 401k, safety and health sections of our rag...what are the Domicile Reps saying about the AAI Pilots?

I know there is some questions amongst the mbrship as to why SWAPA (vs SWA) was named on the DRC...maybe someone can explain that one...

Also I have heard that SWAPA (vs ALPA) will have to negotiate any arbitrated award with SWA...true?

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

I think there were 3 f/o reps that were speaking disparagingly about their plight with AT pilots pushing them down in bases, I guess trying to stick up for RSW pilots and protect them as much as possible going forward even to the further detriment of FAT pilots.

I've wondered the same thing as far as the DRC, I assume it's only because of the way the committees were set up as part of the agreement.

Yes, if the FL pilots are awarded something by the arbitrator and WN mgmt. chooses not to comply, then SWAPA will be responsible for fighting for the FAT pilots if single representation has been filed for and ALPA is off property before the proceedings are finished up. If I understand it correctly.

 

[scoreboardII]

AT side can be SWAPA by voting SWAPA in and ALPO out, simple as that. You do NOT need to have a SWA ID.

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

Unbelievable. Your beloved SWAPA has reps regularly pulling in 160+ TFP months because of their union work, and you want to criticize ALPA, where the union prohibits volunteers from making extra money from union work?

SWAPA is corrupt. And the BOD reducing the cap on extra TFPs from union work to 60 should be considered a slap in the face to all SWAPA members. Rise up and demand that your volunteers stop profiting off of their fellow pilots.

Really? I remember the ALPA secretaries threatening to strike because they made 90K plus and I was a commuter capt. making about 50K. AND what about Duane Worthless realigning his pay with FEDEx after NWA took their paycuts because "no one he represents should make more money then him". I don't like what goes on at SWAPA BUT no one at ALPA has any business questioning where money goes. PERIOD

KBB

 

[PCL_128]

Really? I remember the ALPA secretaries threatening to strike because they made 90K plus and I was a commuter capt. making about 50K. AND what about Duane Worthless realigning his pay with FEDEx after NWA took their paycuts because "no one he represents should make more money then him". I don't like what goes on at SWAPA BUT no one at ALPA has any business questioning where money goes. PERIOD

KBB

ALPA secretaries don't make anything close to 90k, and the President's compensation is based upon what could be made flying the line. Unlike SWAPA, ALPA doesn't allow reps to make more money by being involved in union work. In fact, most reps see their pay decrease as a result of union work, because they never have time to pick up any extra flying.

 

[PCL_128]

AT side can be SWAPA by voting SWAPA in and ALPO out, simple as that. You do NOT need to have a SWA ID.

Actually, it's not as simple as that. It's true that we wouldn't need to have a SWAPA ID. But it's not true that we can simply decide for ourselves who represents us. SWAPA has a say, and the NMB gets to decide. Even the company provides input to the NMB.

 

[Ty Webb]

Maybe I shouldn't have used the phrase "until you have A SWA ID"... What I meant was "until you are flying under the SWAPA CBA". . . And until SWAPA demonstrates they are ready to treat FAT guys as their own. Right now, there are still too many unresolved issues; when that time arrives, hopefully it will be clear to all. Eventually, it will happen, but we're just not there, yet.

 

[madjack]

A member in good standing conducted a Book Review and an Internal Audit Committee looked at SWAPA comp time. There has been a lot of chatter about these reviews on the SWAPA forum. The 2nd VP is ultimately responsible for ensuring the membership is getting good value for the buck as far as comp time goes. A highly comped Committee Chair and Domicile rep have publicly explained their actions. SWAPA dues are relatively cheap, and the union is operating in the black...it's hard to differentiate between the valid use of comp time and abuse because the specific records are closely held by SWAPA. More transparency would help, and I expect that to be the result...

I'm would not be surprised that the Domicile Reps you speak of are from Eastern bases that have seen a lot of displacements due to base openings (and no organic growth) and the arrival of FAT that are now senior FOs at SWA...

 

[Critter717]

Just curious Critter and Karma, have either of you volunteered any of your time in union work for the betterment of the pilot group? I've yet to hear of any volunteers that actually do ALPA's local work belittling our union. It's always those on the sidelines with wives, families, sick kids or parents, other businesses or any other host of excuses they come up with to not volunteer that throw the first stones. I guess you'd be surprised to know that our local volunteers also have ex-wives, families, sick spouses or family members, businesses on the side, etc. and still find time to volunteer for their union. I'm sure it's the same at WN with the same type people complaining about what they are getting for their 1%.

I have done my time with NPA. Save the lecture.

At what point does ALPA not make sense? March of 2014? September of 2014? Who makes the call? ALPA National? Local MEC?

At the risk of belittling our union I would offer to you that we have never thrown good money after bad at the present rate.

 

[PCL_128]

The local MEC makes the decision. Technically the President has to sign off on it, but he'll do whatever the local reps decide.

The time to switch representation is after the disputes are resolved. Not before.

 

[PCL_128]

A member in good standing conducted a Book Review and an Internal Audit Committee looked at SWAPA comp time. There has been a lot of chatter about these reviews on the SWAPA forum. The 2nd VP is ultimately responsible for ensuring the membership is getting good value for the buck as far as comp time goes. A highly comped Committee Chair and Domicile rep have publicly explained their actions. SWAPA dues are relatively cheap, and the union is operating in the black...it's hard to differentiate between the valid use of comp time and abuse because the specific records are closely held by SWAPA. More transparency would help, and I expect that to be the result...

I'm would not be surprised that the Domicile Reps you speak of are from Eastern bases that have seen a lot of displacements due to base openings (and no organic growth) and the arrival of FAT that are now senior FOs at SWA...

If a rep needs "comp time," he should be bought off of his trips, not accumulate additional credit. Allowing reps to submit for additional credit is a system that is ripe for abuse. No one should be profiting from union work.

 

[Critter717]

Until all DRC claims are heard, and all remedies accepted by management (and if not accepted, arbitrated at the second-stage arbitration), then you'd have to be a complete moron to want to get rid of our own representation.

PCL, what is the best case result of the DRC claims for the Airtran pilot group? Specifics please.

 

[madjack]

PCL, that is a very broad brush comment, the Rule for union compensation is no loss or gain...the committee chair had over 1000 trips comped, the domicile rep is being criticized for "excessive" lounge visits...both have explained themselves...the issue is a hot topic on the forum...a counter argument is that if SWAPA pays so well why are there uncontested domicile rep races...people aren't tripping themselves to get on the gravy train...wonder why?

 

[redflyer65]

Unbelievable. Your beloved SWAPA has reps regularly pulling in 160+ TFP months because of their union work, and you want to criticize ALPA, where the union prohibits volunteers from making extra money from union work?

SWAPA is corrupt. And the BOD reducing the cap on extra TFPs from union work to 60 should be considered a slap in the face to all SWAPA members. Rise up and demand that your volunteers stop profiting off of their fellow pilots.

PCL,

You are laughable and making a fool of yourself by trying to defend ALPA's actions.

SWAPA corrupt? Again, laughable. I routinely make 120tfp every month. Some regular line guys make 180. So do you really believe 160 is not worth it? Your showing your lack of knowledge here.

We pay half the rate that you would at ALPA, work under a better overall contract, have better services (top 401k options among ALL US companies), and have 17 million in a reserve fund. We most likely will REDUCE dues or offer a dues holiday in the future. All at the same time ALPA is charging 3 thousand dollar dinners to members and taking their 2% dues off all income..including what you make in your 401k income. I thought that was a pretty low blow, especially for Regional FOs that aren't making anything to begin with.

The differences are stark, but nice ALPA spin. Most Airtran guys can't wait to shed their connection with ALPA, and I don't blame them.

PS...completely agree with Kharma.

 

[freightdogfred]

Yet they pay half as much in union dues? At least the SWAPA guys know where their money goes. I would rather it go to pilots working for me than hired hands who are milking us dry. Like the useless writers for the magazine and overpriced staff.

Yea but the SWAPA union dudes don't have really cool moustaches like our guys. Go to a big union powow in Hearndon and see for yourself.
If you don't have a cool moustache, one will be supplied to you at the door.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL, what is the best case result of the DRC claims for the Airtran pilot group? Specifics please.

That's impossible to answer, since the arbitrator can issue whatever remedy he chooses.

 

[PCL_128]

a counter argument is that if SWAPA pays so well why are there uncontested domicile rep races...people aren't tripping themselves to get on the gravy train...wonder why?

Probably because the average line pilot isn't aware of how lucrative SWAPA work is. When a resolution has to be ratified to reduce comp pay to 60 TFPs, something is seriously wrong.

 

[atldc9]

(top 401k options among ALL US companies)
.

Complete thread creep...

Just a quick thought on this...one of the major factors that was used in the study that everyone talks about was participation rate and contribution amounts. Since we pilots have our own 401k plan, and nearly all pilots contribute at least 10% in order to get the company match, this artificially drives that factor of the study way up in the comparisons. I'm not saying it isn't a decent plan, but it's not god's gift to retirement accounts that some would make it out to be.

 

[HowardBorden]

Yea but the SWAPA union dudes don't have really cool moustaches like our guys. Go to a big union powow in Hearndon and see for yourself.
If you don't have a cool moustache, one will be supplied to you at the door.

Steve Chase had a pretty cool mustache.....just sayin'.

 

[canyonblue]

If you don't have a cool moustache, one will be supplied to you at the door.

Moustaches are for Motorcycle Cops and the Village People.