When can AirTran dump ALPA?

[Critter717]

As the whole operation begins to shut down I find myself increasingly annoyed at forking over my dues. At this point, if I'm paying into anything, I would rather have it be SWAPA.

 

[DUBLINFLYER]

ALPA will suck every last dollar out of you and even when you do cross over you will probably receive letters stating that your ALPA dues are in arrears.
This happened to a friend of mine who was laid off and they sent threatening letters, they did nothing to stop the furloughs either

 

[Ty Webb]

. . . . . When you can snatch the membership card from their hand, Grasshopper.

Seriously, until we are wearing SWA ID's and are flying purple planes, we need the representation we have.

If you want to get your money's worth, volunteer to serve on a couple of committees.

 

[scarlet]

Our issues aren't with SWAPA, nor with SWA pilots, but with MGT. changing the game after you signed the agreement.

 

[Ty Webb]

Maybe not for you, but you must not be aware of the stances SWAPA has taken on issues pertaining to our Pilots. Getting rid of SC was a step in the right direction, but there is a lot of fence-mending that needs to be done between now and then.

 

[madjack]

What stances against AAI pilots has SWAPA taken?

 

[redflyer65]

ALPA will suck every last dollar out of you and even when you do cross over you will probably receive letters stating that your ALPA dues are in arrears.
This happened to a friend of mine who was laid off and they sent threatening letters, they did nothing to stop the furloughs either

I've seen this time and time again too. Not only do they take the 2% out of your paycheck, but after leaving they send you a bill saying "we miscalculated and didn't take enough!"

They must be getting the expense account receipts for those $3,000 dinners. What a bloated, out of touch organization.

 

[boomlrd]

I hate ALPA

 

[Ty Webb]

What stances against AAI pilots has SWAPA taken?

:laugh:

Nice try, MJ . . . . Not taking the bait, though. There's no need to re-hash all that stuff again.

How's OAK treating ya? Or have you migrated eastward?

 

[madjack]

Ty,

I suppose you are referring to SC comments about "capturing AAI captain" seats...all seems so irrelevant with the demise of the 717...we get it, it sucks to have worked hard and put in your time to become a CP at a major airline, and it sucks to have to go back to being a FO (and then have to go through upgrade training again, believe me I get that...) but once the DRC is adjudicated next month, and all the AAI pilots have transitioned, there is no room for ALPA on the property, it's called moving on and making the most of the situation...

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty,

I suppose you are referring to SC comments about "capturing AAI captain" seats...all seems so irrelevant with the demise of the 717

Actually, those comments were made in regards to the 717 seats; those are the seats he wanted to "capture", and is part of the pending DRC.

...we get it, it sucks to have worked hard and put in your time to become a CP at a major airline, and it sucks to have to go back to being a FO (and then have to go through upgrade training again, believe me I get that...)

Thanks, I appreciate that. I know this has also been frustrating for the RSW pilots who were hired as growth had slowed/stopped. I'm sure the announcement was an additional kick in the nuts.

but once the DRC is adjudicated next month, and all the AAI pilots have transitioned, there is no room for ALPA on the property, it's called moving on and making the most of the situation...

I think thata key part of the issue is that SWAPA would have to come up to speed on the AAI Contract that we are operating under over here. Not sure that SWAPA wants to do that . . . I'm sure there are on-going discussions about how to best make the change to SWAPA.

Regds,
Ty

 

[madjack]

"those are the seats he wanted to "capture", and is part of the pending DRC"

I don't begrudge AAI/ALPA's DRC efforts (I may be in the minority), but let's not forget that if the 717 had stayed on the property, that many of those CP seats would have been populated with pilots who are junior to FOs on the same ISL...given the SWA CBA vacancy bidding rules and the fact that the 717 fleet was stagnant, this situation almost certainly have resulted in an "out of seniority seat grab" on the part of AAI...

 

[Critter717]

Ty, how hard would it be for SWAPA to come up to speed on the AAI CBA in return for what would be collected in dues? Are the dues we are paying in to ALPA going to change anything over the next 14 months? I think not.
Even if the result of the DRC is in favor of the AAI guys does ALPA have the ability to get anything implemented? Again, I don't believe they do.
The focus should be looking forward at this point. I predict the DRC to yield jack squat for anyone except counsel.

 

[Kharma Police]

ALPA has had a wonderful track record over the years, I will shed a few tears (by plucking some nose hairs) when they stop leaching from my pay check. I love hearing the ALPA success stories from the rEAL, Midwest, Emery, PAN-AM pilots about how well they were sodomized, I mean represented by that illustrious institution.

 

[PCL_128]

Until all DRC claims are heard, and all remedies accepted by management (and if not accepted, arbitrated at the second-stage arbitration), then you'd have to be a complete moron to want to get rid of our own representation.

 

[PCL_128]

They must be getting the expense account receipts for those $3,000 dinners. What a bloated, out of touch organization.

Unbelievable. Your beloved SWAPA has reps regularly pulling in 160+ TFP months because of their union work, and you want to criticize ALPA, where the union prohibits volunteers from making extra money from union work?

SWAPA is corrupt. And the BOD reducing the cap on extra TFPs from union work to 60 should be considered a slap in the face to all SWAPA members. Rise up and demand that your volunteers stop profiting off of their fellow pilots.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Just curious Critter and Karma, have either of you volunteered any of your time in union work for the betterment of the pilot group? I've yet to hear of any volunteers that actually do ALPA's local work belittling our union. It's always those on the sidelines with wives, families, sick kids or parents, other businesses or any other host of excuses they come up with to not volunteer that throw the first stones. I guess you'd be surprised to know that our local volunteers also have ex-wives, families, sick spouses or family members, businesses on the side, etc. and still find time to volunteer for their union. I'm sure it's the same at WN with the same type people complaining about what they are getting for their 1%.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Yet they pay half as much in union dues? At least the SWAPA guys know where their money goes. I would rather it go to pilots working for me than hired hands who are milking us dry. Like the useless writers for the magazine and overpriced staff.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Take a look at SWAPA's newspaper. I believe it was the Aug. or Sept issue that highlights some members complaints about reps bilking the union. It's also eye-opening to read the rep's views on AirTran pilots in general. Those guys will be representing you. I'm with PCL, I'd like to keep ALPA as long as we have a significant number of pilots still on the AirTran side and pending legal issues.

 

[Kharma Police]

Unbelievable. Your beloved SWAPA has reps regularly pulling in 160+ TFP months because of their union work, and you want to criticize ALPA, where the union prohibits volunteers from making extra money from union work?

SWAPA is corrupt. And the BOD reducing the cap on extra TFPs from union work to 60 should be considered a slap in the face to all SWAPA members. Rise up and demand that your volunteers stop profiting off of their fellow pilots.

You calling SWAPA out for their sins is laughable.

 

[madjack]

"It's also eye-opening to read the rep's views on AirTran pilots in general."

I only read the contract, 401k, safety and health sections of our rag...what are the Domicile Reps saying about the AAI Pilots?

I know there is some questions amongst the mbrship as to why SWAPA (vs SWA) was named on the DRC...maybe someone can explain that one...

Also I have heard that SWAPA (vs ALPA) will have to negotiate any arbitrated award with SWA...true?

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

I think there were 3 f/o reps that were speaking disparagingly about their plight with AT pilots pushing them down in bases, I guess trying to stick up for RSW pilots and protect them as much as possible going forward even to the further detriment of FAT pilots.

I've wondered the same thing as far as the DRC, I assume it's only because of the way the committees were set up as part of the agreement.

Yes, if the FL pilots are awarded something by the arbitrator and WN mgmt. chooses not to comply, then SWAPA will be responsible for fighting for the FAT pilots if single representation has been filed for and ALPA is off property before the proceedings are finished up. If I understand it correctly.

 

[scoreboardII]

AT side can be SWAPA by voting SWAPA in and ALPO out, simple as that. You do NOT need to have a SWA ID.

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

Unbelievable. Your beloved SWAPA has reps regularly pulling in 160+ TFP months because of their union work, and you want to criticize ALPA, where the union prohibits volunteers from making extra money from union work?

SWAPA is corrupt. And the BOD reducing the cap on extra TFPs from union work to 60 should be considered a slap in the face to all SWAPA members. Rise up and demand that your volunteers stop profiting off of their fellow pilots.

Really? I remember the ALPA secretaries threatening to strike because they made 90K plus and I was a commuter capt. making about 50K. AND what about Duane Worthless realigning his pay with FEDEx after NWA took their paycuts because "no one he represents should make more money then him". I don't like what goes on at SWAPA BUT no one at ALPA has any business questioning where money goes. PERIOD

KBB

 

[PCL_128]

Really? I remember the ALPA secretaries threatening to strike because they made 90K plus and I was a commuter capt. making about 50K. AND what about Duane Worthless realigning his pay with FEDEx after NWA took their paycuts because "no one he represents should make more money then him". I don't like what goes on at SWAPA BUT no one at ALPA has any business questioning where money goes. PERIOD

KBB

ALPA secretaries don't make anything close to 90k, and the President's compensation is based upon what could be made flying the line. Unlike SWAPA, ALPA doesn't allow reps to make more money by being involved in union work. In fact, most reps see their pay decrease as a result of union work, because they never have time to pick up any extra flying.

 

[PCL_128]

AT side can be SWAPA by voting SWAPA in and ALPO out, simple as that. You do NOT need to have a SWA ID.

Actually, it's not as simple as that. It's true that we wouldn't need to have a SWAPA ID. But it's not true that we can simply decide for ourselves who represents us. SWAPA has a say, and the NMB gets to decide. Even the company provides input to the NMB.

 

[Ty Webb]

Maybe I shouldn't have used the phrase "until you have A SWA ID"... What I meant was "until you are flying under the SWAPA CBA". . . And until SWAPA demonstrates they are ready to treat FAT guys as their own. Right now, there are still too many unresolved issues; when that time arrives, hopefully it will be clear to all. Eventually, it will happen, but we're just not there, yet.

 

[madjack]

A member in good standing conducted a Book Review and an Internal Audit Committee looked at SWAPA comp time. There has been a lot of chatter about these reviews on the SWAPA forum. The 2nd VP is ultimately responsible for ensuring the membership is getting good value for the buck as far as comp time goes. A highly comped Committee Chair and Domicile rep have publicly explained their actions. SWAPA dues are relatively cheap, and the union is operating in the black...it's hard to differentiate between the valid use of comp time and abuse because the specific records are closely held by SWAPA. More transparency would help, and I expect that to be the result...

I'm would not be surprised that the Domicile Reps you speak of are from Eastern bases that have seen a lot of displacements due to base openings (and no organic growth) and the arrival of FAT that are now senior FOs at SWA...

 

[Critter717]

Just curious Critter and Karma, have either of you volunteered any of your time in union work for the betterment of the pilot group? I've yet to hear of any volunteers that actually do ALPA's local work belittling our union. It's always those on the sidelines with wives, families, sick kids or parents, other businesses or any other host of excuses they come up with to not volunteer that throw the first stones. I guess you'd be surprised to know that our local volunteers also have ex-wives, families, sick spouses or family members, businesses on the side, etc. and still find time to volunteer for their union. I'm sure it's the same at WN with the same type people complaining about what they are getting for their 1%.

I have done my time with NPA. Save the lecture.

At what point does ALPA not make sense? March of 2014? September of 2014? Who makes the call? ALPA National? Local MEC?

At the risk of belittling our union I would offer to you that we have never thrown good money after bad at the present rate.

 

[PCL_128]

The local MEC makes the decision. Technically the President has to sign off on it, but he'll do whatever the local reps decide.

The time to switch representation is after the disputes are resolved. Not before.