Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Wheels up

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
If anyone thinks there's nothing wrong with a 6/3 schedule. Try working it and show up with a stupid grin on your face loving your job. You guys are the type that the wheels up executives will love as you drag the rest of the industry to a new low if it can get any lower....
 
^^^Not sure if that is Wheels Up doing or Gama. Either way, its not good. I do believe within 6-8 months the sched will improve with more planes on property. As the pilot group gets bigger in the next 12 months, they will revolt if the sched does not get better.
 
Interesting comments on the 6/3 :p

But how come nobody has brought up the SIC in a single pilot airplane not being able to log the time...

...although I haven't seen the certificate, but I cant imagine it would not allow autopilot in lieu of?!?
 
Simuliar to the P-180. Single pilot aircraft that had an auto pilot. The certificate required two pilots. The guy in the right seat logged SIC time, because it was required to have an SIC at Avantair for all pax legs. Occasionally on repo legs, there would be only one pilot on board.
Anyway, the same should be true flying the KA 350 for Gama. If your a First Officer, you will be logging SIC time. Not PIC time when you flew the plane (even though they will be typed in the plane) The CA signed for the plane, so he/she will log PIC time. Simuliar to the airlines. Easy enough :)
 
I know of a few Fed Ex delivery guys who started in the mid-80s, and by the mid-90s were buying $750,000+ homes for cash by using their stock options. They went to the closings between stops in full Fed Ex gear. The realtors and thought they were executives until they showed up at the closing.
 
NoJoy said:
Simuliar to the P-180. Single pilot aircraft that had an auto pilot. The certificate required two pilots. The guy in the right seat logged SIC time, because it was required to have an SIC at Avantair for all pax legs. Occasionally on repo legs, there would be only one pilot on board.
Anyway, the same should be true flying the KA 350 for Gama. If your a First Officer, you will be logging SIC time. Not PIC time when you flew the plane (even though they will be typed in the plane) The CA signed for the plane, so he/she will log PIC time. Simuliar to the airlines. Easy enough :)
Click to expand...

lol, you said the same thing I did, in that it all depends on their certificate...

...but if they get the autopilot in lieu of SIC (like 99% of all King Air operators) then the right seat time is worthless ;)
 
ok. I am pretty sure that all of the KA 350s that Gama is flying have autopilots. And they are currently hiring First Officers (and CA's), so I am willing to bet that their certificate requires a FO, and in turn that FO is logging all flight time as SIC time. On their resume they will be putting down their 135 sic time as well as total time, ect. These aircraft will be operated with a crew. And the right seat time is not worthless. (or maybe the P-180 fo time was) ;)
 
NJAowner said:
I know of a few Fed Ex delivery guys who started in the mid-80s, and by the mid-90s were buying $750,000+ homes for cash by using their stock options. They went to the closings between stops in full Fed Ex gear. The realtors and thought they were executives until they showed up at the closing.
Click to expand...

Sure you did. Just a "few?" :laugh:
 
NoJoy said:
Simuliar to the P-180. Single pilot aircraft that had an auto pilot. The certificate required two pilots. The guy in the right seat logged SIC time, because it was required to have an SIC at Avantair for all pax legs. Occasionally on repo legs, there would be only one pilot on board.
Anyway, the same should be true flying the KA 350 for Gama. If your a First Officer, you will be logging SIC time. Not PIC time when you flew the plane (even though they will be typed in the plane) The CA signed for the plane, so he/she will log PIC time. Simuliar to the airlines. Easy enough :)
Click to expand...

not so fast jack

you forgot about the tiny part 61 reg that also mentions (sole manipulator of the controls)
 
^^^Sole manipulator does not mean jack to Major Airlines-if that's one of the places you wnat to end up. It's about who signed for the aircraft. If you have ever filled out the Airlineapps, they break down PIC time nicley. By the way, what is the CA logging if the Fo is also logging PIC time when they get to fly? They can't both log PIC time.
 
he;s right....SIC time is SIC time....it matters not who is flying the plane. You have one PIC signing for the plane and one SIC.
 
Another interesting aspect......if you're single-pilot typed in the aircraft then the SIC cant log SIC from what some in the FAA say.
 
^^^Yes FOs are logging SIC time (all the time) flying the KA350s at Gama. Per their certificate. :)
 
CUBMAN said:
Another interesting aspect......if you're single-pilot typed in the aircraft then the SIC cant log SIC from what some in the FAA say.
Click to expand...

unless the faa requires an SIC for the operation. which is very common. Ive interviewed guys who had 1000 sic time in a navajo.
 
NoJoy said:
^^^Sole manipulator does not mean jack to Major Airlines-if that's one of the places you wnat to end up. It's about who signed for the aircraft. If you have ever filled out the Airlineapps, they break down PIC time nicley. By the way, what is the CA logging if the Fo is also logging PIC time when they get to fly? They can't both log PIC time.
Click to expand...

You have no idea what the interviewers background is. Any flight instructor knows about the part 61 sole manipulator wording. And how is the interviewer going to prove or know who signed for the aircraft?
 
NoJoy said:
^^^Sole manipulator does not mean jack to Major Airlines-if that's one of the places you wnat to end up. It's about who signed for the aircraft. If you have ever filled out the Airlineapps, they break down PIC time nicley. By the way, what is the CA logging if the Fo is also logging PIC time when they get to fly? They can't both log PIC time.
Click to expand...

Sure they can. PIC logs PIC time for being in charge. SIC logs PIC time for being sole manipulator (assuming he or she is rated if a type rating is required).

The gent who taught my ATP written prep lo these many years ago logged many hours of PIC time in the crew bunk of L1049 and L1649 Super Connies on the way across the pond.
 
rettofly said:
Sure they can. PIC logs PIC time for being in charge. SIC logs PIC time for being sole manipulator (assuming he or she is rated if a type rating is required).

The gent who taught my ATP written prep lo these many years ago logged many hours of PIC time in the crew bunk of L1049 and L1649 Super Connies on the way across the pond.
Click to expand...


If a King Air SIC really needs to worry about logging an hour of sole manipulator of the controls every now and then, I doubt he/she is gonna need to worry about a Legacy interview any time soon.. Unless said pilot is banging the CP or is his first born....

Anyone going from King Air SIC to a Legacy probably already has good experience at other operations...
 
rajflyboy said:
You have no idea what the interviewers background is. Any flight instructor knows about the part 61 sole manipulator wording. And how is the interviewer going to prove or know who signed for the aircraft?
Click to expand...

I have an idea what the interviewers background is. Since you responded to a quote that addressed "airlines" - the interviewer will laugh you out of the office when you tell them that you logged PIC time, when you were employed as an SIC in a multi-crew airplane.

You may now return to your 7E7 on flight sim.
 
^^^^This. I can't believe we are even having this discussion. Both pilots logging PIC time. That's funny right there. ;)
When I did IOE as a CA in training on a DHC, I logged SIC time-the Line Check aiman logged PIC time. His name was on the release. When two Captains fly together, the one whos name is on the release loggs PIC time-the other guy/gal can't. jetBlue is one of the airlines that spells it out easy enough-one of the requirements to count PIC time on their application is "the one who signed for the aircraft"
 
No sheet. Now back to Wheels-Up/Gama baby! :beer:
 
Still trying to figure out how GAMA can have a 135 certificate...when they are foreign owned...

oh oh...kinda like Jet Solutions...49% owned by a Canadian company (under the limit :))..but who controls the certificate...guess we don't have to worry about that anymore with a US company buying Flexjets...that Dallas FSDO can work things out..just have to know the right people...

...and it helps to put the former head of the FAA (Jane Garvey) on your board of directors when things get really hot with Congress...Jane joins the Obama's administration in 2008 after things quiet down...

...all facts that you can confirm on the Internet...and if you don't believe that...it has been on flightinfo.com which is the bible of truth and credible dialogue...

How long before Wheels Up needs a union or we start hearing about QOL?
 
gret said:
Still trying to figure out how GAMA can have a 135 certificate...when they are foreign owned...

oh oh...kinda like Jet Solutions...49% owned by a Canadian company (under the limit :))..but who controls the certificate...guess we don't have to worry about that anymore with a US company buying Flexjets...that Dallas FSDO can work things out..just have to know the right people...

...and it helps to put the former head of the FAA (Jane Garvey) on your board of directors when things get really hot with Congress...Jane joins the Obama's administration in 2008 after things quiet down...

...all facts that you can confirm on the Internet...and if you don't believe that...it has been on flightinfo.com which is the bible of truth and credible dialogue...

How long before Wheels Up needs a union or we start hearing about QOL?
Click to expand...
Are they bad for business down South?
 
nojoy said:
^^^^this. I can't believe we are even having this discussion. Both pilots logging pic time. That's funny right there. ;)
when i did ioe as a ca in training on a dhc, i logged sic time-the line check aiman logged pic time. His name was on the release. When two captains fly together, the one whos name is on the release loggs pic time-the other guy/gal can't. jetblue is one of the airlines that spells it out easy enough-one of the requirements to count pic time on their application is "the one who signed for the aircraft"
Click to expand...



winner winner chicken dinner
 
Clearly the black and white text differs from JetBlue and other airlines. I can't seem to find "signed for the aircraft" in the regs anywhere.
 
A guy 923 hours total flight time on his resume, 321 ME time, puts down he has 255 PIC in a KA-90? Legal under part 61, sure. How many insurance companies covered this pilot as PIC without a tremendous low time rider? How many command decisions did this pilot make? An airline interviewer will look at this as BS PIC time in every case. You are not the PIC in the eyes of anyone.
 

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top Bottom