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Quick question for the corporate and fractional pilots - Wheels Up membership and annual dues are $ 23K for the first year, followed by an hourly rate of $ 3950.0 per hour. It seems a little expensive to my uneducated eye.

If one were to charter a King Air 350 at a good quality operation, how much would it cost per hour ? Any comments as to why Kenny thinks he can charge a large premium, if that is the case ?
 
dicko said:
Quick question for the corporate and fractional pilots - Wheels Up membership and annual dues are $ 23K for the first year, followed by an hourly rate of $ 3950.0 per hour. It seems a little expensive to my uneducated eye.

If one were to charter a King Air 350 at a good quality operation, how much would it cost per hour ? Any comments as to why Kenny thinks he can charge a large premium, if that is the case ?
Click to expand...

They should have called this company Penguin or Kiwi. Flightless bird aviation - who is going to pay this much for a kingair? I don't care how many letters after the numbers, it's still a Kingair with no lavatory and internal baggage.

I don't get it either.
 
C680 said:
They should have called this company Penguin or Kiwi. Flightless bird aviation - who is going to pay this much for a kingair? I don't care how many letters after the numbers, it's still a Kingair with no lavatory and internal baggage.

I don't get it either.
Click to expand...

Um, the 350i has 55 cu ft of interior, accessible baggage space (+ wing lockers) and a separate flushable lav with sink. And it'll haul 8 pax and bags with a full load of gas. The hauling capacity beats most super-mid bizjets, if that's what you're looking for.

http://www.beechcraft.com/beechcraft/king_air_350i/assets/documents/Beech_350i_Brochure.pdf


Yes, it's still a turboprop, so it has the image issue to overcome. But for short regional ops it's as quick as a jet and can get in and out of more places. I have no idea about Wheels up's pricing compared to the charter market. Looks like he's trying to offer a frax-like product, and attach a frax-like premium. I think it's a niche market and don't know if it will support a company, but the 350's a capable bird for the right profile.
 
BlueNose said:
Um, the 350i has 55 cu ft of interior, accessible baggage space (+ wing lockers) and a separate flushable lav with sink. And it'll haul 8 pax and bags with a full load of gas. The hauling capacity beats most super-mid bizjets, if that's what you're looking for.

http://www.beechcraft.com/beechcraft/king_air_350i/assets/documents/Beech_350i_Brochure.pdf


Yes, it's still a turboprop, so it has the image issue to overcome. But for short regional ops it's as quick as a jet and can get in and out of more places. I have no idea about Wheels up's pricing compared to the charter market. Looks like he's trying to offer a frax-like product, and attach a frax-like premium. I think it's a niche market and don't know if it will support a company, but the 350's a capable bird for the right profile.
Click to expand...

Is the ProLine 21 fully integrated on the KA350i? I don't believe it has autothrottles, etc. How integrated is it?
 
autothrottles...pffft, thats what the SIC will be for, cause theres nothing else for them to do in a single-pilot airplane :p
 
nearly $4,000/hr on a King Air?? :confused:

They also teamed up with JetSuite... A LAX-SEA flight on a 4 passenger Phenom 100 will run over $12,000 one way.....

I just don't see it..

Dichter, to me, is a glorified used car salesman ( a very good one) who has the right connections that are willing to hand him millions for any scheme he wishes..
 
Asked a rep at NBAA if they were hiring. He didn't know, but I gave him my card to forward to Gama...Havent heard anything yet.
 
BentOver said:
nearly $4,000/hr on a King Air?? :confused:

They also teamed up with JetSuite... A LAX-SEA flight on a 4 passenger Phenom 100 will run over $12,000 one way.....

I just don't see it..

Dichter, to me, is a glorified used car salesman ( a very good one) who has the right connections that are willing to hand him millions for any scheme he wishes..
Click to expand...

More than $4000 per hour. He expects members to fly 20-30 hours per year so factor in a 20 hour use with a $10K annual membership fee and you are talking nearly $4500 per flight hour but hey, you might get back stage access to Justin Beiber and a jar of Snake Oil.
 
BentOver said:
One could get a Beechjet or similar, with better range etc... For probably $2500/hr..... Just have to charter instead of do one of these buy in programs....
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Doesn't one hour most often turn into to two hours on a charter, when taking into account positioning? With this operation a one hour flight is a one hour flight. People will pay a premium for a new aircraft with continuity in the experience which a fractional type operation will provide. With the loss of avantair and CitationAir I think they will do well.
 
Sparse said:
Doesn't one hour most often turn into to two hours on a charter, when taking into account positioning? With this operation a one hour flight is a one hour flight. People will pay a premium for a new aircraft with continuity in the experience which a fractional type operation will provide. With the loss of avantair and CitationAir I think they will do well.
Click to expand...


Depends on the operator, but I highly doubt WU will move a bird for less than a minimum charge as well. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for fellow pilots finding work and the aviation sector getting busier. That being said, in my 10 years of flying charter I have learned that the kind of people willing to spend 4 grand an hour to fly, do NOT wanna see propellers on their mode of transport...we shall see i guess!
 
Sparse said:
Doesn't one hour most often turn into to two hours on a charter, when taking into account positioning? With this operation a one hour flight is a one hour flight. People will pay a premium for a new aircraft with continuity in the experience which a fractional type operation will provide. With the loss of avantair and CitationAir I think they will do well.
Click to expand...

Maybe, and maybe not. Either way, you can pay for one hell of a lot of repos with the savings. 4K per hour plus the high fees is outrageous for a B350. I completely disagree with your assessment. They have priced themselves out of the targeted niche market, and are competing with much more capable options at that price point. You could easily charter a sovereign including repos for less money when you consider the fully burdoned rates and the speed difference. Continuity and alleged, if not suspect, experience delta isn't going to offset that fact.
 
Marquis built it's model and "success" around the exclusive service of NetJets. No offense to Gama Aviation but their industry reputation is largely unknown to the targeted consumers. There is a big difference between a business jet in "Marquis by NetJets" and a turboprop in "Wheels Up by Gama".

At the time of of Marquis' sale to NetJets the value was in the brand name "Marquis by NetJets" and not much else. The Company had very little residual value and a ton of debt. Additionally, don't forget Dichter burned NetJets by returning a large portion his shares used for resale in cards back to NetJets when the economy tanked taking NetJets to the brink with debt. He is not well thought of by most people other than some pilots. Pilots like him because he gave out free stuff and said nice things about the pilots on national TV.
 
Probably going to see a few in Vegas too. GAMA has on office on the second floor at Signature.

Jussss sayin'
 

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