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Wheels up

  • Thread starter Thread starter luftmann
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A guy 923 hours total flight time on his resume, 321 ME time, puts down he has 255 PIC in a KA-90? Legal under part 61, sure. How many insurance companies covered this pilot as PIC without a tremendous low time rider? How many command decisions did this pilot make? An airline interviewer will look at this as BS PIC time in every case. You are not the PIC in the eyes of anyone.

but none of that means that he isn't a better pilot than the F15 fighter jock that gets hired at the airline with 1500 hours

anyone who has done hiring in this business knows that the logbook is virtually meaningless when it comes time to train and it comes time to go out and fly
 
A guy 923 hours total flight time on his resume, 321 ME time, puts down he has 255 PIC in a KA-90? Legal under part 61, sure. How many insurance companies covered this pilot as PIC without a tremendous low time rider? How many command decisions did this pilot make? An airline interviewer will look at this as BS PIC time in every case. You are not the PIC in the eyes of anyone.

With a low time guy, I can't completely agree or disagree with you. But with a guy that's been unfortunate enough for seniority to pin him in the SIC position for 15 years while he supervises old guys like you and teaches the Captain more about climb gradients in Aspen and stops the Captain from killing them both in a regular basis, then in that case I would say he has made quite a few command decisions. An "SIC" logging "PIC" in the left seat on passenger legs has been "allowed" to do so because he earned the respect of the person who signed for the aircraft who knows that they are equally qualified to do so. I'm guessing you would just make him work the radios though because you are the man.
 
With a low time guy, I can't completely agree or disagree with you. But with a guy that's been unfortunate enough for seniority to pin him in the SIC position for 15 years while he supervises old guys like you and teaches the Captain more about climb gradients in Aspen and stops the Captain from killing them both in a regular basis, then in that case I would say he has made quite a few command decisions. An "SIC" logging "PIC" in the left seat on passenger legs has been "allowed" to do so because he earned the respect of the person who signed for the aircraft who knows that they are equally qualified to do so. I'm guessing you would just make him work the radios though because you are the man.

FYI most employers, especially airlines will only count PIC time if you actually signed for the aircraft. It's isn't in any regs it's just what the company's want as a requirement .
 
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FYI most employers, especially airlines will only count PIC time if you actually signed for the aircraft. It's isn't in any regs it's just what the company's want as a requirement .

Thanks, that's why we are discussing that short sightedness on this Wheels Up thread today.
 
With a low time guy, I can't completely agree or disagree with you. But with a guy that's been unfortunate enough for seniority to pin him in the SIC position for 15 years while he supervises old guys like you and teaches the Captain more about climb gradients in Aspen and stops the Captain from killing them both in a regular basis, then in that case I would say he has made quite a few command decisions. An "SIC" logging "PIC" in the left seat on passenger legs has been "allowed" to do so because he earned the respect of the person who signed for the aircraft who knows that they are equally qualified to do so. I'm guessing you would just make him work the radios though because you are the man.
What are you talking about? We were talking about a very low time showing PIC in an airplane by doing the Part 61 thing going through an interview pertending they were a PIC. BTW: I don't think you have flown with me, but I spend most of my time as PM.
 
anyone who has done hiring in this business knows that the logbook is virtually meaningless when it comes time to train and it comes time to go out and fly
ditto that, but the chances are the F15 fighter jock will have a much higher probability of successful completion of training. The F-15 guy has some real PIC time. Plus he is in a constant training cycle. He has been screend well beyond the average civilian pilot and faced a far more stringent a elimination program. BTW the USAF flight time forms may be a bit more accurate than other ways of logging flight time.
 
Curious...what is the flight time of an F15 fighter pilot when they come out...on average?

Serious question...include trainers...
 
Curious...what is the flight time of an F15 fighter pilot when they come out...on average?

Serious question...include trainers...
Along the same lines. I got a resume a few year back from a USAF EC-135 pilots, he had 1200 hours total time, he had been in 10 years. I hear F/A-18 pilots are getting about 12 hours a month when not deployed.
 
Thanks Yip! Number sounds reasonable...
Things change I came out of my first squadron tour in 1971 with over 2000 hours, 700 of that came in six months flying around Vietnam. But then over the next 6 years I only got another 700 hours. I would imanine that those flying in support of Iraq or Afghanistan also see those kinds of numbers.
 
Along the same lines. I got a resume a few year back from a USAF EC-135 pilots, he had 1200 hours total time, he had been in 10 years. I hear F/A-18 pilots are getting about 12 hours a month when not deployed.

Training aside, who is ultimately more proficient, the guy who flies 100 hours/year or 700+/year?
 
Training aside, who is ultimately more proficient, the guy who flies 100 hours/year or 700+/year?

Unlike the civilian world where two sim sessions/year are a necessary evil to stay current (only in the eyes of the FAA), military pilots, especially fighter pilots, do a lot of training in very advanced simulators. The only thing missing is the g's.

I got out a long time ago (1988), and our sims sucked. But before I did exit military service, I had the opportunity to fly a new Redifusion C130 sim in the UK. Unbelievable. That was before electric motion level D sims we now have in the civilian world. I can't imagine how much more advanced they are today in the military. And a lot cheaper than JP8.
 
Things change I came out of my first squadron tour in 1971 with over 2000 hours, 700 of that came in six months flying around Vietnam. But then over the next 6 years I only got another 700 hours. I would imanine that those flying in support of Iraq or Afghanistan also see those kinds of numbers.

Yip...appreciate your service...I was a kid graduating from high school in 1971 who thought he was pretty smart when accepted at the university...didn't know crap and maturity was lacking...should have spent time in the military and then gone to school.
 
Training aside, who is ultimately more proficient, the guy who flies 100 hours/year or 700+/year?
As Pervis said unless you been on both sides it is hard to compare. Building time on cross country's is a thing of the past, every flight has a training objective. 700 hours of monitoring the auto-pilot is much different than a 1.5 hour night flight on goggles into a unlit LZ to pick up a bunch of ninja turtles in 30 seconds. You might spend 5 hours planning this mission, then fly it in the simulator before doing it real time. But then again the military may have no idea how to enter the pattern at an uncontrolled airport, two different worlds.
 
As Pervis said unless you been on both sides it is hard to compare. Building time on cross country's is a thing of the past, every flight has a training objective. 700 hours of monitoring the auto-pilot is much different than a 1.5 hour night flight on goggles into a unlit LZ to pick up a bunch of ninja turtles in 30 seconds. You might spend 5 hours planning this mission, then fly it in the simulator before doing it real time. But then again the military may have no idea how to enter the pattern at an uncontrolled airport, two different worlds.

Are we talking about training and experience to be an airline pilot or picking up ninja turtles? Who is better adapted to be a 121 major pilot, a 5,000 hour RJ driver or a 1,200 hour rotor head or f-teen flying on nvgs in combat? We're talking about flying pax straight and level here and making a few PAs.
 

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