What's 357 Done For You Lately?

[ArcadiaMaxima]

So, is that considered PFT?

 

[Captain Morgan]

As far as I'm concerned, IBT threw us lowly F/Os under the bus. It's apparent I have to look out for myself under their leadership. I won't cross a picket line, but if an opportunity presents itself to better mine and my families life, so be it. I am at the bottom of the seniority list either way so, eh... I'm furlough fodder anyway.

 

[OpenClimb]

I've seen a couple of people talking about an A320 type rating for Frontier new hires. Just as a heads-up, Frontier does not "type" its FO's. We get this SIC-only A320 type rating that isn't good for anything but meeting some sort of ICAO requirement. You can't serve as PIC on an A320 with the SIC-only type rating.

 

[Captain Morgan]

I've seen a couple of people talking about an A320 type rating for Frontier new hires. Just as a heads-up, Frontier does not "type" its FO's. We get this SIC-only A320 type rating that isn't good for anything but meeting some sort of ICAO requirement. You can't serve as PIC on an A320 with the SIC-only type rating.

I didn't think they did, I don't know where people got that.

 

[SF340Guy]

Not real intelligent to simply copy and paste internal FAPA emails to a message board like this...

You mean like some F'nut did to the RAH EXCO on APC

 

[SizzleChest]

While there was certainly a dose of schadenfreude in the thread's title, how is this FAPA's fault?

The IBT's refusal to negotiate forced the arbitrator to rule, and his decision created some things that all parties find repugnant. As the letter states, IBT refused to consider a flow through when it was put on the table and now there will be at least seven years for you to calculate what the net present value of that decision was.

RAH is following the arbitrator's decision - a seven year fence. If you thought you had found a path under it, you were wrong. This has nothing to do with FAPA.

Let's put this in different terms, if i were to buy your "house" would i need to consult with you before implementing changes to it? Do I need to call you before i put a new roof on it? Would I have to meet your standards before my bank check would be accepted? I tend to think that "no" would be the answer. As such, RAH bought F9. There was no need to flow thru to F9 just like there is no need to flow thru to any of the legacy RAH carriers. (ex. CHQ->REP) "We are one" right? So for these guys to give up anything to bid an Airbus is lame as heck. They have been vetted the same as F9 guys, they have passed checkrides in turbojets in a 121 airline, they have talked on the radio. they are plenty capable to fly the prcious Airbus. No wonder they see FAPA as a great evil....

 

[Bolo]

Let's put this in different terms, if i were to buy your "house" would i need to consult with you before implementing changes to it? Do I need to call you before i put a new roof on it? Would I have to meet your standards before my bank check would be accepted? I tend to think that "no" would be the answer. As such, RAH bought F9. There was no need to flow thru to F9 just like there is no need to flow thru to any of the legacy RAH carriers. (ex. CHQ->REP) "We are one" right? So for these guys to give up anything to bid an Airbus is lame as heck. They have been vetted the same as F9 guys, they have passed checkrides in turbojets in a 121 airline, they have talked on the radio. they are plenty capable to fly the prcious Airbus. No wonder they see FAPA as a great evil....

AGAIN, this had nothing to do with FAPA! This was managements decision. Do not put this great evil B-crap on FAPA's plate.

 

[F9 Driver]

Let's put this in different terms, if i were to buy your "house" would i need to consult with you before implementing changes to it? Do I need to call you before i put a new roof on it? Would I have to meet your standards before my bank check would be accepted? I tend to think that "no" would be the answer. As such, RAH bought F9. There was no need to flow thru to F9 just like there is no need to flow thru to any of the legacy RAH carriers. (ex. CHQ->REP) "We are one" right? So for these guys to give up anything to bid an Airbus is lame as heck. They have been vetted the same as F9 guys, they have passed checkrides in turbojets in a 121 airline, they have talked on the radio. they are plenty capable to fly the prcious Airbus. No wonder they see FAPA as a great evil....

What a specious analogy. YOU didn't buy anything.

The company that you work for bought the company that I work for. The management team of the company that now owns both our companies decided that it was in their best interest to follow the procedure outlined in both our CBAs to merge the various pilot groups. Part of that procedure allowed the groups' representatives to create and agree to an Alternative Dispute Resolution process (ADR), per LPP 13(b), rather than simply go to arbitration when negotiations deadlock, per LPP 13(a).

The representatives for your group acted in bad faith during the agreed upon ADR negotiation and mediated negotiation, and the arbitrator had to decide how to put the groups together - the last resort under the ADR. During the interim period between when the SLI was announced and when it may be implemented, the management team that runs the company that owns our companies decided to hire pilots for the Frontier operation. They opted for the lowest cost solution (including training costs, litigation, and maybe even costs implicit in harmonious operation) to put qualified pilots in those positions. The IBT shills on this site whine about how awful it would be for the SLI award to be followed since they had promised that there would be a way to tunnel under the seven year fence, and were wrong.

This isn't about whether an IBT EMB pilot could operate an Airbus. Many of the current FAPA Airbus pilots made the same transition, after being hired at Frontier, with no problem. The likelihood that the majority of IBT EMB pilots would succeed is high. The issue is management's.

If they don't have to move an active pilot from one certificate to another, with the attendant training costs, they won't. AMR and CAL had flow through agreements that respected the hierarchy of pilot career progression and the regional counterparts of those agreements thought they were great agreements. Somehow Local 357 has gotten some pilots, at least you anyway, to believe that you are being screwed by that same arrangement.

 

[jetalc]

You mean like some F'nut did to the RAH EXCO on APC

Precisely. Why do people feel the need to "advertise" internal memos? I heard now there's a dispute filed by IBT because of the now-public nature of this otherwise internal memo.

 

[sqwkvfr]

Speaking of ignorance, what in the world are you talking about in that second sentence?

Repubic has hired.....what......fifty pilots this year? I would think it would be a no brainer for 20 of them to take this Frontier deal? What have they got to lose, unless the company holds them to their training contract, which they could conveniently choose to ignore. And once again, Midwest pilots are left on the street.

Must have been on the SL Oct 1st, 2009...new hires are not eligible.