What's 357 Done For You Lately?

[F9 Driver]

The IBT357 NC just sent out a blast e-mail regarding the FAPA-ALPA raid. Very enlightening letter, especially since one of the NC members is a former YX NC member. If fact, he endorsed the YX SLI proposal. I wonder what has changed his mind about ALPA? Hmmmmm...

Maybe he needed a paying job and the IBT offered?
http://teamsterair.org/about-teamsters-airline-division

 

[sshrae]

Yeah, and I remember riding a camel in an underwater congo line in celebration of the martian new year.

Both my statement and yours contain the same amount of truth, except maybe the part about you thanking them at the end of the flight. But hey it is on the internet so it must be true right.

Actually, it did happen. Ask around, I'm sure the crew will be more than happy to brag about it. Doesn't matter though, F9 has its share of reckless people too. Just how it goes. I don't think you will see too many people trying to slip the airbus. Its all falling apart fast, so it wont matter soon anyway.

 

[sshrae]

Being in this business 25 years and working with some of the most professional crews at TWA, the crews I work with at Republic (Chautauqua, Shuttle and Republic), rank right there with them.

I want to thank the Frontier crew who decided last summer to fly through a thunderstorm enroute from IND to DEN, thank you for not killing me. Apparently the crew nor the dispatcher was too concerned with a 50,000 foot cell, right on the filed route...GOOD JOB.

Before you insult a Republic crewmember, you better know, we are a family here, and this family saved F9's butt, so come down off your pedestal F9, because all you fly are Airbus, for a failing national

As a dispatcher you might want to stick on the sidelines on this one. I don't even work at f9 anymore because I wanted nothing to do with this mess. Are you really sure about the 'we are family' at rah statement? It sounds like everyone who has any real ambition is just trying to get off the sinking ship. Maybe you should too. As for the crew flying through the thunderstorm are you sure about that? Were you in the cockpit looking at the radar? Do you know what it looked like in the front of the airplane? Please keep your uninformed and stupid comments to yourself, you just sound like an idiot.

 

[F9 Driver]

.. FAPA wants a double standard... Why didn't FAPA have a problem with that before but now have a problem with it when it pertains to the IBT pilots they don't wish to represent? A bit of a double standard there, eh? What's good for Lynx/Midwest isn't good for IBT guys? ...Since FAPA hasn't the history of experience with RAH management, don't assume that constructive talks are even possible or were/weren't had. ... the same thing FAPA doesn't want now. FAPA is just looking to splash the pot here... and what is this "mainline" you speak of? We are one right?

First off FAPA wants F9 properly staffed and wants the award complied with. How management chooses to do that isn't for FAPA to decide as long as it is in-keeping with our CBA and the SLI award.

We're in the void between award issuance and implementation. Management can do as they please, and are proving that.

FAPA has had constructive talks with RJET management. 19 LOAs, including an intricate multiple domicile proposal, countless disputes resolved (with a MUCH higher number of disputes filed under RJET).

BB quipped that he has spent more time with FAPA leadership since 2010 than he has ever spent with IBT leadership. It's easy to say that management is impossible to work with when you assume the stance that 747/357 has historically taken. I know that current RAH pilots think that FAPA leadership is being duped by BB/WH and are going to pay for it. Maybe they are right, but the IBT has failed miserably in their attempts to represent their membership via threats and holding their breath. Maybe it's time for a new look at the picture from a union used to dealing with airline management - ALPA.

PS. How many 1981 FIT grads do you have working at RAH? Just curious.

 

[F9 A319]

Hmmm...let's just say things happen for a reason in life, nothing is 'by chance' or 'coincidence'. If you haven't figured it out yet, you will with time. Here's some examples for you to ponder:

Why a captain actually questioned if I could sit in the back while jumpseating...until I informed the gate agent...who chewed him out in front of the whole cabin and crew?

Why I don't put stickers on my flight bag of a company I never worked for (Midwest)?

Why I don't where sunglasses inside the terminal?

Why I wear dress shoes instead black hiking boots or Dockers with extra thick laces?

Why every "Frontier Emergency Landing" reported on the local news is always an Embraer that had "an indication"?

Why I don't flirt with "da ladies" while passing through security?

Why my voice doesn't quiver when "GOING AROUND!!!"

Why I'm responsible for more than 99 souls per flight?

That's just reality, Sport.

Frontier has just as many pilots percentage wise that dress poorly, act immature, flirt (we're pilots for God's sake), wear their hair goofy, declare emergencies for pilot induced errors and wear different shoes (I'm still looking for black leather slippers that are good on ice and snow).

And who cares how many "souls" you carry. If you have pride in your job you don't fly a plane with 9 souls on board any different than if you were flying a plane with 400 souls on board. Not to mention, if you live through it, everyone in the back does too.

 

[F9 Driver]

The IBT357 NC just sent out a blast e-mail regarding the FAPA-ALPA raid. Very enlightening letter...

Can't wait to see it. You guys do realize that the "FAPA - ALPA raid" is just Willson Polling about your preferences in representation.

Don't you?

 

[crashpad]

Frontier has just as many pilots percentage wise that dress poorly, act immature, flirt .....

I agree, and requested the mod delete my post. Too many cups of java yesterday and not directed at the whole pilot group, just one poster.
My apology in any case.

 

[trainer8]

Can't wait to see it. You guys do realize that the "FAPA - ALPA raid" is just Willson Polling about your preferences in representation.

Don't you?

Yup...I was ALPA for 15 years at 2 other carriers, one a mainline carrier. Not my first rodeo.

Fool me once, shame on you...Fool me twice, shame on me. It won't happen again, if I can help it.

T8

 

[SizzleChest]

Can't wait to see it. You guys do realize that the "FAPA - ALPA raid" is just Willson Polling about your preferences in representation.

Don't you?

And a letter with no return address which doesn't even have the name of the pilot group right..... nice work there!

 

[SizzleChest]

First off FAPA wants F9 properly staffed and wants the award complied with. How management chooses to do that isn't for FAPA to decide as long as it is in-keeping with our CBA and the SLI award.

We're in the void between award issuance and implementation. Management can do as they please, and are proving that.

FAPA has had constructive talks with RJET management. 19 LOAs, including an intricate multiple domicile proposal, countless disputes resolved (with a MUCH higher number of disputes filed under RJET).

BB quipped that he has spent more time with FAPA leadership since 2010 than he has ever spent with IBT leadership. It's easy to say that management is impossible to work with when you assume the stance that 747/357 has historically taken. I know that current RAH pilots think that FAPA leadership is being duped by BB/WH and are going to pay for it. Maybe they are right, but the IBT has failed miserably in their attempts to represent their membership via threats and holding their breath. Maybe it's time for a new look at the picture from a union used to dealing with airline management - ALPA.

PS. How many 1981 FIT grads do you have working at RAH? Just curious.

Where is there a reference to this quip of BBs? I'd like to see it. BB hasn't spent time because it is always WH or the lawyers. Don't interpret BB showing up to talk as some kind of special relationship. BB has also been out with health issues the last few months as i understand it. IBT has more grievances filed as we have been around longer with this managment team. it;s not about a stance so much as it is about RAH not wanting to fix anything so they can delay a CBA or anything beneficial to the pilots. I don't think that IBT has failed miserably as you state. They filed a Q400 grievance, seem to be quickly moving on this airbus vacancy memo and then there is the SLI award (another thread). i don't think ALPA is going to be any better. they didn't want CHQ in the past, why now? So they can get more $ and take more from me and my 401K? No thanks.

Who would know about FIT grads?... what difference does that make?

 

[F9 Driver]

Yup...I was ALPA for 15 years at 2 other carriers, one a mainline carrier. Not my first rodeo.

Fool me once, shame on you...Fool me twice, shame on me. It won't happen again, if I can help it.

T8

At the risk of provoking the whole East vs West group, How's that non-ALPA union working out for your old mainline carrier? Wasn't it ALPA who got you your J4J at RAH?

 

[F9 Driver]

... IBT has more grievances filed as we have been around longer with this managment team. it;s not about a stance so much as it is about RAH not wanting to fix anything so they can delay a CBA or anything beneficial to the pilots. I don't think that IBT has failed miserably as you state. They filed a Q400 grievance, seem to be quickly moving on this airbus vacancy memo and then there is the SLI award (another thread). i don't think ALPA is going to be any better. they didn't want CHQ in the past, why now? So they can get more $ and take more from me and my 401K? No thanks.

Who would know about FIT grads?... what difference does that make?

FAPA had more disputes filed in the first few months of RAH's management then were filed in the prior year. We currently have three outstanding disputes. The rest were settled satisfactorily. FAPA's record at arbitration is unmatched.

The Q400 grievance is a loser, the Airbus vacancy is a loser, having pay tied to seats rather than MGTOW was a loser, the much vaunted Scope has cost the membership seven years of sub-standard wages in hopes of something better down the road, and the SLI/STS is a coin toss with another seven years of low wages as the upside potential. It takes two to tango and the IBT hasn't been able to deal realistically with management up until now, so why would you expect any change?

The bottom line is that we don't care whether you stay IBT or go ALPA; we just don't want to be FORCED into the IBT. If you want "Unity" you need to understand and respect that.

 

[trainer8]

At the risk of provoking the whole East vs West group, How's that non-ALPA union working out for your old mainline carrier? Wasn't it ALPA who got you your J4J at RAH?

Yes, they negotiated LOA #4 with the IBT.

Last I heard, that "non-ALPA" union was holding it's own. I'm sure some Eastie or Westie will chime in now that you have chummed the water.

T8

 

[GOULET!]

Republic is scum.

 

[Toobdrvr]

Let's just pray to GOD that the NMB restores the natural order of things. Then we'll have nothing left to discuss. EVER...

I've even envisioned buttons for the occasion. Instead of "We are one", they say "We are DONE"!

 

[trainer8]

Maybe he needed a paying job and the IBT offered?
http://teamsterair.org/about-teamsters-airline-division

Dang! Three former ALPA guys now at the IBT! Who'd a thought? The guy I referenced...former ALPA, former MD-80 Captain at YX...current FO at RPA--that's the guy who helped pen the NC update. One of the most professional letters to the pilot group I've seen. Very informative.

T8

 

[Cardinal]

former ALPA, former MD-80 Captain at YX...... One of the most professional letters to the pilot group I've seen.

You yourself said it.

 

[SizzleChest]

FAPA had more disputes filed in the first few months of RAH's management then were filed in the prior year. We currently have three outstanding disputes. The rest were settled satisfactorily. FAPA's record at arbitration is unmatched.

The Q400 grievance is a loser, the Airbus vacancy is a loser, having pay tied to seats rather than MGTOW was a loser, the much vaunted Scope has cost the membership seven years of sub-standard wages in hopes of something better down the road, and the SLI/STS is a coin toss with another seven years of low wages as the upside potential. It takes two to tango and the IBT hasn't been able to deal realistically with management up until now, so why would you expect any change?

The bottom line is that we don't care whether you stay IBT or go ALPA; we just don't want to be FORCED into the IBT. If you want "Unity" you need to understand and respect that.

You seem to make alot of predictions with no evidence to back it up. The scope worked well as it forced the SLI in an attempt to minimize a whipsaw among other things. BB knows that the branded side is the future of this place so of course he will play ball with FAPA grievances. He has shareholders to protect. The new Local as opposed to the old Local has been a large improvement. The thing is that alot has changed and will continue to change and we have seen change. I'm not turning my back on IBT yet. Faulting folks now for a contract from 2003 is apples/oranges and a played out argument from the haters. face it, IBT guys outnumber FAPA/ALPA guys. Being forced into IBT is, perhaps, an inevitability so begin to deal with it and work together. Like has been said, FAPA can't handle everybody so it can't go. ALPA didn't want CHQ back in the day but they do now...? pfffft

Unity doesn't come or not come by what union you are part of. it comes from what you have in common. Edmund Burke said "All that is needed for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Let's get together already......

 

[DeucesWild]

Let's get together already......

Let's get together already...... and give me your seat. The arbitrator said I could have it....... SO GIVE IT TO ME. Let's get together already! Screw your career..... GIVE ME THAT SEAT!! Let's get together already.....

 

[trainer8]

You yourself said it.

mmhmm, but, you don't know what he said, do you?

 

[trainer8]

Let's get together already...... and give me your seat. The arbitrator said I could have it....... SO GIVE IT TO ME. Let's get together already! Screw your career..... GIVE ME THAT SEAT!! Let's get together already.....

I remember this happening 5 years ago, at US Airways. Everybody trashed the East for the same reasons. Arbitrator awarded West ahead of East in portions of the Nicolau. Same song, different author. STS ruling will be FAPA's nirvana or abaddon.

 

[F9 Driver]

mmhmm, but, you don't know what he said, do you?

"We are in this together, with the backing of the IBT Airline Division, to obtain an industry leading con- tract that addresses all flying as a part of our professional pilot group. And we expect our management to treat us the same. The days of division are over."

Want another prediction?

 

[trainer8]

"We are in this together, with the backing of the IBT Airline Division, to obtain an industry leading con- tract that addresses all flying as a part of our professional pilot group. And we expect our management to treat us the same. The days of division are over."

Want another prediction?

No, and no, again. Not in my copy.

 

[Toobdrvr]

Arbitrator has dismissed IBT's complaint as outside his jurisdiction...

 

[F9 Driver]

You seem to make alot of predictions with no evidence to back it up.... Let's get together already......

1)"The Q400 grievance is a loser"
***We'll see. When is that arbitration scheduled?
2)"the Airbus vacancy is a loser"
***lost 3/20/11
3)"having pay tied to seats rather than MGTOW was a loser"
*** lost 8/5/10
4)"the much vaunted Scope has cost the membership seven years of sub-standard wages in hopes of something better down the road"
***Costing net present value today and everyday
5)"and the SLI/STS is a coin toss with another seven years of low wages as the upside potential."
***Read the SLI award and wait for the NMB to rule - We'll see. I could be wrong, but I'm doing better here than on my NCAA brackets.

I think I'll hold off on the kumbaya at Hoffa's place. I think neutral ground - ALPA - may be the place for our combined group to get some purchase and align for future struggles.

 

[Airline Driver]

ALPA will sign away scope faster than I can sign my name on a release!! They Don't care about anything accept how much more money they can generate from Pilots. They are out for themselves like all Unions. Unfortunately Unions are a necessary evil in our industry. Allot of hostility could have been avoided between our Pilot Groups, "IF" "FAPA", agreed to represent the RAH pilot group. They said from day 1, "WE HAVE NO INTEREST IN REPRESENTING REGIONAL PILOTS"!!! Great Way to start things off!!!! At the time I believe 747 was still up and running with olé' Sewell at the helm. Many of us were looking for a way out of Teamsters and had hoped FAPA would take over as the new Union of Our Combined Companies!!! NOT NOW!!!! The Problem is FAPA lives in a bubble and thinks that they are the only Airline involved in this mess. Things have come to a USAIR/AMERICA WEST situation, or very close to it. I'm not totally happy with Teamsters, but I'll take them over ALPA or FAPA for that Matter. 357 has come along way from the 747 days. We have to ALL stop looking at things from a "WHAT'S IN IT FOR ME", standpoint and start looking at our future as a whole for our airline. Coming together is the only way that will happen. United we stand, Divided we fall. The Arbitrator ruled, Move on, Everyone is pissed so it must have been a fair integration. You can't expect to get everything you ask for!!! Now we need to start working toward Uniting and getting some Fair Compensation, Work Rules, The whole nine yards!! Industries change, and it will continue to change and evolve in ways we can't predict. A holding company that owns regional airlines purchased two mainline Carriers, BIG DEAL!!!!!!!! If it means the survival of the entity as a whole, it was a smart business decision! That's the key it's business, and Management does not give a !@#$% about any crew member which is why we need to unite as CREW MEMBERS!!!!! If your not Happy , then find something else to do. Working together is the only way we will make Management Here our Voice!!!! Divided, and Management has the Ball!!!

 

[The Drizzle]

That wasn't just a wall of text, that was a wall of catchphrases too.

 

[F9 Driver]

Ouch. My eyes hurt.

And, believe me - the IBT 747 reps never asked FAPA to represent the RAH pilot group. They asked what FAPA could do FOR the IBT, but never the other way around (and it was the Trustee of 747 at the time, Dan Brannan - danbrannan.com - who made the pitch.)

The same feelings you have toward FAPA, FAPA pilots have toward 357. An in house union has little chance of successfully representing a group where 30% of the pilots contribute >50% of the dues, while the other 70% account for the majority of the union's cost (dispute etc.)

We need a fresh start if the goal is truly "unity".

 

[BUDDHA145]

Let's get together already...... and give me your seat. The arbitrator said I could have it....... SO GIVE IT TO ME. Let's get together already! Screw your career..... GIVE ME THAT SEAT!! Let's get together already.....

Look everyone!! a troll is out of the kindergarden. W Heller is this you again??

 

[Airline Driver]

Ouch. My eyes hurt.

And, believe me - the IBT 747 reps never asked FAPA to represent the RAH pilot group. They asked what FAPA could do FOR the IBT, but never the other way around (and it was the Trustee of 747 at the time, Dan Brannan - danbrannan.com - who made the pitch.)

The same feelings you have toward FAPA, FAPA pilots have toward 357. An in house union has little chance of successfully representing a group where 30% of the pilots contribute >50% of the dues, while the other 70% account for the majority of the union's cost (dispute etc.)

We need a fresh start if the goal is truly "unity".

My Eyes hurt just reading this dumb thread, but it's too entertaining to complaine!! I agree with your Second Paragraph, We do need a fresh start! ALPA'S not the Answerer, Nor is FAPA or TEAMSTERS. However your first Paragraph your way off. FAPA said from day 1 they have no interest in coming together with "REGIONAL" pilots! The Reason why IBT 747 never asked to be represented BY FAPA Was because FAPA said from the Start they have no interest in representing RAH pilots. So FAPA never gave them the opportunity to ask! "We fly an Airbus", "we are mainline", "we are better". I'm not saying we don't have our 10% but our job is the same. We fly Airplanes under 121.. All parties involved nead to accept change and move on that's my point. Working against each other doesn't do any crew member any good. Management just sits there and laughs. FAPA has allot to learn about RAH management, believe me!!!! FAPA and 357 need to start working together.. PERIOD!!!! Time to lower the weapons sit down and have real talks to help each other and come together as a United Pilot Group....PEROID!!!!!