What is the status of the ALPA De-certification vote at US Airways?

[vetrider]

Now, now Steve G, Woody says usapa is good for us, whether we know it yet or not. Thats swell of him, for sure. They're not trying to screw us, no, not at all.

 

[ferlo]

Besides the decision to work at US airways in the first place...a vote for USAPA will be the biggest career mistake the east guys have ever made. No contract, no structure, 40% won't pay dues...ever, endless litigation, endless assessments, no past practice to refer grievances, crappy pay, no work rules, and it goes on and on.

In house unions will only work if everybody is on the same page, The entire west coast will always do everything in it's power to undermine USAPA. They have the legal advantage no matter what those bitter old Doosh bags in PHL say. USAPA = DOOM....for everybody, no matter how old you are.

 

[vetrider]

..........................

 

[TWA Dude]

Certainly ALPA's several motions that might be viewed as attempts to delay or obstruct the process do actually provide the NMB with the opportunity to magnify the legitimacy of the election, should it occur.

Oh my, delaying tactics against a competitor. How un-American!! If ALPA didn't fight in each and every way against USAPA you'd lose all respect for it completely.

It would also serve to magnify ALPA's illegitimacy if they used this time to force a joint contract by receivership rather than representational consensus in the midst of a representational dispute that will be settled in a relatively short period of time.

Huh? How can one force a contract? We still get to vote, dontcha know.

I want this vote to take place asap. I think it might be close but I'm thinking there are more than a handful of Easties who can be logical and unemotional about their futures.

 

[PCL_128]

TWA Dude, your numbers assume that all of the West pilots will vote. I don't think that's a safe assumption. Remember, if more than half of the total pilot group votes, then the representational unit with the most votes wins, even if they don't top the 50% of eligible pilots mark. You could have 51% voting, with only 26% of the total pilot group voting for uSAPAa, and they'd win.

 

[TWA Dude]

PCL 128: you're correct so I deleted my statement.

 

[m80drvr]

Nice choice of ignoring the relevant "facts", junior.:laugh:

The relevant fact is the election will likely occur in March, right after the "World Hunger ALPA Live Aid Concert", the "ALPA March for Gerbils", and the "ALPA Walk for FPL Carnival".

Damn Dude you are a TOOL!!!

My response contradicted you with facts, you reply with stupidity. But we are all accustomed to your lack of intelligence. Good luck with that USAPA thing. You wil enjoy the unemployment line again.

 

[Tweaker]

Quote:
I think I am up to speed, but it is sad that this process is taking so long.

I disagree. There's nothing sad about the NMB being thorough to ensure there are no irregularities.

I was referring to the merger in its entirity, not just this recent skirmish, TWA dude.

 

[TWA Dude]

Quote:
I think I am up to speed, but it is sad that this process is taking so long. I was referring to the merger in its entirity, not just this recent skirmish, TWA dude.

Not sure which aspect you're sad about. The seniority integration issue was completed last May. Had the East not withdrawn from joint negotiations we could conceivably had a contract by now, thus "completing" the merger. You're right, it is indeed sad.

 

[Turtle21]

Damn Dude you are a TOOL!!!...

It must have been my avatar!

 

[surfnfly]

Let me guess positive rate you were ex-Mesa

Keep in mind, most of the rhettoric and pure stupidity posted by the likes of Kerosene, BeCareful and Weasil Lips are guys who were furloughed and are the most disenfranchised of the East bunch.

You can pretty much ignore ALGFLYER - he was neither an America West employee or US Airways employee and should be thankful he even gets to fight with us as he backdoored his way in and should be happy to be at the bottom of the list, not scabbily salivating over some dream of a seat grab with the rest of the USAPA d-bags.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

However this election turns out....if you don't get involved, you deserve what you get.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Plato -
- One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.

 

[PositiveRate]

"Let me guess positive rate you were ex-Mesa"

Surfnfly - guess again, but it's pretty clear the implication you're making.

Now let me play....

Let me guess...you're a furloughed guy who took a slot at PSA and believed you were handed a big plate of wrong from Nicolau? I mean after all, you should definitely get to come back ahead of all those junior 'ex-mesa' guys on the west right?

So, as a furloughed guy, what are your plans in the upcoming vote for representation (if it comes to that)? Will you vote for USAPA or ALPA and why?

 

[tico]

Just out of curiosity I have been reading at length the "tomes" of the Railway Labor Act. Under the sections governing de-certification of an existing union and electing a new representative body, there is language that allows the "carrier" to not honor or abide by the collective bargaining agreements of the former representative body. So some further research at the NMB turned up that while it is customary it is not required to honor any part of a CBA. Additionally the carrier is not obliged to consider any part of the former CBA during future negotiations with the newly elected representative body.
Have the proponents of USAPA covered these areas of the RLA with the membership.
What stops the new USAIR, upon receipt of notice that ALPA has been de-certified, from doing away with both CBA'S from America West and UsAirways. If so then will they not enforce their own version of integration/pay/work rules etc.. and then spend the next 5 years negotiating with USAPA....I found several cases where it happened outside of aviation and I wonder, can it happen to you guys too.
As a disclaimer, I have no dog in this fight. I feel that the old UsAirways ALPA group was very negligent all through this decade in looking out for the interests of their membership. I hope that this USAPA drive does not include any of those individuals. If it is truly a grass roots effort by frustrated membership then it will survive and succeed. It will include both airlines memberships and the new agreement will be good for both.

 

[waveflyer]

Tico- i believe that it is customary to abide by the CBA b/c anything else could be construed in court as interference w/ the organizing process. It is a good question though and my answer isn't definitive.

I do wish that the motives for this de-cert were as noble. I truly think that AWA has been just as unimpressed by ALPA leadership- but this is a fairly transparent scheme to get rid of the Nic Award and i think they have a lot of unanswered questions to figure first. What USAPA isn't however, is dumb. ALPA leadership should be more concerned than writing a few "concerned pilots" letters..... otherwise this kind of drive could snowball to other carriers.... And all i can say is... why have a national union if it's not united and if there is no national plan? ALPA has my support b/c the true problems plaguing our profession are inherent in the seniority system... we will do ANYTHING to keep from starting over- management knows this and uses it against us. If ALPA wants to stick around- they'll have to lead and solve this problem. USAPA's at the center of it- National can't sit on the sideline and be a process provider to individual MEC's looking out only for themselves... we've seen where that leads us.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

waveflyer-

valids points.... the national union is there to speak to congress for example, as it just did....

but there is very little cohesion amongts the warring factions... er I mean .... MECs.

At times it seems the Sunni, Shiite and Kurds have a better chance at agreement.... oh wait... they just did!!

We do need a more cohesive national leadership... the goal and intent.... find it not start a new union

 

[Turtle21]

....I feel that the old UsAirways ALPA group was very negligent all through this decade in looking out for the interests of their membership. I hope that this USAPA drive does not include any of those individuals. If it is truly a grass roots effort by frustrated membership then it will survive and succeed. It will include both airlines memberships and the new agreement will be good for both.

There were calls for decertification of ALPA Within minutes of the ALPA-Nic abortion being delivered.

Prater and his pals (along with his pals at AAA) have tried everything they know to deflate the grass roots drive to decertify and replace ALPA. Everything that is.. except do what is right.

 

[Freight Dog]

What IS right?

Can someone answer that? I really want to know what do AAA guys think is right. By 'right', I mean right for both groups, no windfalls.

We all know that DOH isn't right. So what is?

PLEASE... someone answer that.

 

[ALGFLYR]

What IS right?

Can someone answer that? I really want to know what do AAA guys think is right. By 'right', I mean right for both groups, no windfalls.

We all know that DOH isn't right. So what is?

PLEASE... someone answer that.

OK, I'll try. I posted this near the beginning of this thread before the bashing began, so I'll post it again:

If 20 CA's retire from PHX, then the 20 upgrades MUST come from the West to replace them. Thinking an East pilot should is just stupid. If 10 East 767 pilots retire from PHL, then 10 East pilots should take their place. I personally think that fences should be the way to live with the Nic award. Our junior pilot that was NEVER furloughed was a Captain for quite a while. He was subsequently downgraded as we went through BK. So why should he have to wait until EVERY AWA FO upgrades into an originally East CA slot before he gets a chance?

Let us have our pre-merger CA slots for pre-merger East FO's and we will let you have all pre-merger West CA slots for pre-meger West Fo's. All "NEW" flying can be split down the middle.