What is the status of the ALPA De-certification vote at US Airways?

[Turtle21]

Kerosene, if a 2000 hire at AWA was gnat's ass close to upgrading to captain, and East 1986 hire date FO couldn't hold a frigging bid line as a narrowbody FO, sorry bud... 2000 hire at AWA who's gnat's ass close to captain gets senior in a merger. Any other way = WINDFALL. Sorry, LONGEVITY does not equal SENIORITY.

The sooner you grasp that concept, the better off you'll be.

Since we are sharing advice...

The sooner a pilot realizes that what he gets in return for what he pays to participate on Flightinfo boards is greater than what he gets for paying dues to ALPA, the sooner pilots will be enlightened.:beer:

 

[FR8mastr]

Positive rate, here is a question for you.

In light of all your knowledge, answer me this, Why do you think it said operated by US Airways on the 170's?
I really am very curious as to what you think that was put there for.

 

[Fast43]

Positive rate, here is a question for you.

In light of all your knowledge, answer me this, Why do you think it said operated by US Airways on the 170's?
I really am very curious as to what you think that was put there for.

I think you can put all this MDA stuff to rest by answering this question with a yes or no.

Could the bottom Active MDA guy bid for and recieve a 767,737 or A-320 F/O seat "BEFORE" each and every furloughed AAA pilot senior to him had it offered to them first.

Just a simple Yes or No should do

Fast

 

[TWA Dude]

My paycheck stub and W-2 reads "America West" but there is no more America West Airlines! I'm a USAirways pilot! Gosh, this is so confusing.

MDA was operated as a seperate division from mainline USAirways. That's the detail that matters as opposed to the paintjob, the paystub, or seniority list. For another example, there are American Eagle pilots who possess an AA seniority number yet they're not AA pilots. So there can exist special relationships between distinct carriers yet they're not the same carrier. I guess we'll find out for sure from the MDA lawsuit -- in five to seven years from now.

 

[Fast43]

These would be the ALPA reps that have served you so well.

I guess you have to believe everything they say!!!

Last I checked hearsay is not proof. Especially from ALPA (usapa card carrying) Reps

 

[FR8mastr]

I think you can put all this MDA stuff to rest by answering this question with a yes or no.

Could the bottom Active MDA guy bid for and recieve a 767,737 or A-320 F/O seat "BEFORE" each and every furloughed AAA pilot senior to him had it offered to them first.

Just a simple Yes or No should do

Fast

No because they were senior, and at every airline except the west the senior guy gets the first choice.

 

[Fast43]

What are your feelings on the AW pilots hired that flew the Dash 8? That's not a mainline plane yet they are on your seniority list. What backdoor did they go through? Or were they legally and rightfully on your list because they flew an aircraft on the AWA operating certificate?

The Dash 8 was treated just like another piece of equipment and those pilots hired to it could bid off to the 737,757,A-320 and yes even the 747 when their seat lock (that every new hire recieved) was up. No pilots were furloughed needing to be recalled before this could occur.

After our BK 6 Dash 8's were kept and offered for furloughees to fly. The bottom furloughee flying the Dash in 92' (Me) could not fly any of the jets until recalls got down to me. I was Furloughed !! Certificate was the same, Paystub was the same, uniform etc. Same as MDA. But clearly things in the AAA world work differently. You are Furloughed until there is an merger and more names are needed for the list, then imagine that, your on the list. The Arbitrator saw this for what you were trying to do.

It wasn't what you were doing (flying mda ) that made you furloughed it was what you couldn't do (fly a Mainline Jet ) that made you Furloughed. And when "Mainline" jobs were merged, guess what, you didn't have one in the Arbitrators and anyone elses eyes.

Fast

 

[Turtle21]

I think you can put all this MDA stuff to rest by answering this question with a yes or no.

Could the bottom Active MDA guy bid for and recieve a 767,737 or A-320 F/O seat "BEFORE" each and every furloughed AAA pilot senior to him had it offered to them first.

Just a simple Yes or No should do

Fast

It is simply amazing that a college graduate can point to the outworking of an injustice and then at the same time point to it as a justification for the same.

The year was 1950 and a simple yes or no will suffice. "Was a black man able to drink from a water fountain labeled 'whites only'?"

 

[Fast43]

No because they were senior, and at every airline except the west the senior guy gets the first choice.

Could it be that since a Furloughed Mainline guy got a shot at a Mainline seat before an Active MDA guy (not Mainline) that the Arbitrator saw the MDA guy as "Not Mainline" when he merged "Mainline Jobs"

I think you can see that if you were Hired to MDA that you sorta weren't hired by AAA Mainline much less AWA. Hence the consternation out West that guys who were never truly hired by either side were attempting to be placed ahead of even One AWA guy.

Fast

 

[Fast43]

It is simply amazing that a college graduate can point to the outworking of an injustice and then at the same time point to it as a justification for the same.

The year was 1950 and a simple yes or no will suffice. "Was a black man able to drink from a water fountain labeled 'whites only'?"

So your suggesting that Furloughed AAA pilots should have been forced to accept a job at MDA at 170 wages in seniority order or quit. (would they have done this if they knew they would never get mda its own certificate.......I think you know the answer)

Or

Not allow them to fly it at all. And hire more freightmasters, AGflyers or whoever was hired straight to MDA etc.


Then there would be Justus............I guess

 

[FR8mastr]

Could it be that since a Furloughed Mainline guy got a shot at a Mainline seat before an Active MDA guy (not Mainline) that the Arbitrator saw the MDA guy as "Not Mainline" when he merged "Mainline Jobs"

I think you can see that if you were Hired to MDA that you sorta weren't hired by AAA Mainline much less AWA. Hence the consternation out West that guys who were never truly hired by either side were attempting to be placed ahead of even One AWA guy.

Fast

I keep looking for this airline called "mainline" maybe you could send a link to it, maybe they are hiring.

Jokes aside, its obvious that I will never get through to some on this board no matter what evidence can be produced.

What is your answer to why "operated by US Airways" was put on the 170's?

The west did not just try to have the junior guys stay junior, they tried to have them removed all together.
Nic disagreed with that one, but I must say it was a heck of an example of the fine unionism delivered by the West.
Trying to have a pilot thrown off the property goes way beyond a seniority fight, so keep that in mind when some get all high & mighty about how fair the west mec is trying to be.

 

[Turtle21]

So your suggesting that Furloughed AAA pilots should have been forced to accept a job at MDA at 170 wages in seniority order or quit. ... guess

Are you suggesting that a black man in Mississippi in 1950 should have been forced to drink out of a whites only water fountain or die of dehydration?

Looking at what happened is pointless unless you first acknowledge the rules that govern the activity so that you can discern whether or not those rules were followed.

Looking at what is or has transpired will reveal nothing apart from an acknowledgment of what an air carrier certificate means.

 

[PositiveRate]

FR8 and ALG - you are spinning the facts to suit your agenda(s). You were at MDA, could not bid into mainline equip and were not considered active mainline in the arbitration (by your own MEC as well as Nicolau).

So when you come on here and drop subtle or not so subtle references to the USAPA agenda, it's very hard not to assume you have sided with those seat grabbing POS' and have possibly been convinced that you too are owed something greater than what you were given.

I say this because you both have stated you believe you should be at the bottom. Why would you want to give up the myriad of career protections offered within the ALPA structure and go it alone unless you also believe that by leaving ALPA you will be a benefactor of the leap frog elitist USAPA mentality??

Your current ALPA leadership has failed you time and time again, yet there is no push for change within that structure...a MEC recall would have far greater chances of success and would lead to a joint contract, better QOL and pay much quicker than USAPA would. At the same time, pushing for local ALPA leadership change does not forfitting the career protections ALPA can offer today and tomorrow when God forbid you may need them.

Remember, these USAPA bafoons will seemingly stop at nothing - including ruining the career of every US Airways pilot. Why in the world would you support something like that unless you think USAPA might help you leap frog into a better position as well?

 

[Turtle21]

Why in the world would you support...

Support?

Its a vote. You pick one. I pick one. I don't care who you plan to vote for since your motives aren't my business. I don't get to vote on your motives, juts the CBA.

Whichever receives more votes is the CBA and then we all sing kum-ba-ya together as we live happily ever after, supporting the CBA with dues.

 

[FR8mastr]

FR8 and ALG - you are spinning the facts to suit your agenda(s). You were at MDA, could not bid into mainline equip and were not considered active mainline in the arbitration (by your own MEC as well as Nicolau).

Oh for cripes sake, have you seen the certified lists used for the Nic arbitration?

again with the "mainline" Just like MDA there is no airline called "mainline" There is a US Airways and the MDA guys are and were listed on the US Airways pilot seniority list. These numbers were given to the MDA guys starting in July of 04, that is 9 months before the West was in the picture at all.

I can accept the argument about where on the seniority list these pilots should be placed, both sides have points, but to claim they were not here is crazy.
This argument has nothing to do with USAPA, as you might remember the argument has been going on long before USAPA had the teeth it does now.

I know you wont believe me, but maybe someday I could prove this to you, I dont want to jump anyone's Seniority!! Nor do I want to have anyone removed from anybody's list.