What is the status of the ALPA De-certification vote at US Airways?

[ALGFLYR]

For the record, your card my say AAA active, but you and I know that in 2004 you were not hired to mainline...you were hired at MDA and flew a plane with a big EXPRESS painted on the side. You snuck in the back door

See, this is NOT true. ORIGINALLY, MDA was supposed to be a seperate carrier. But it didn't happen that way. Before any CEL pilot was offered a position, ALL furloughed pilots were offered the same. The company failed to fill MDA according to recall protocols because every MDA pilot was a ML pilot. Many furloughed pilots got screwed because the company lied and thus a grievance has been filed to correct this problem. But that does not change the fact that when the CEL pilots exercised their contractual ability to fly the E-170, they knew they would be on the ML seniority list. This is why we had to fill out a US Airways application. There was no sneaking on our part, this was all above the table.

Secondly - Are you serious?!! You think a quicker way to change is to just "replace the entire union". Do you have any real understanding of what protections are lost by doing so? Aeromedical has publically stated they WILL NOT do business with USAPA.

With ALPA national threatening to force a contract down our throat without a ratification vote, this was quicker than replacing the MEC. Not much time left...

That ALPA sponsored program is underwritten by insurace companies. Don't you think there are other insurance companies that would be glad to cover our pilots? Look at the USAPA website, they have already lined up most of these, some with better coverage at a lower cost..

Bytheway...

I didn't call you a scab - I said you were "scabbily salivating" over a seat grab, which is exactly what you guys are doing.

That's like saying "I didn't call you stupid, I said you were stupidly doing something..." There's a difference? Sorry, I don't see it.... sounded like you called me a scab. Anyway, as I have said... no seat grab here. I'm at the bottom no matter how this list is constructed. Nic really means nothing to me.

Read Kerosene's posts...although he himself seems reasonable, he readily admits there is a faction with yours that will stop at nothing to get 'theirs' back...up to and including killing the airline

Well, I don't like that line of reasoning. I understand their anger and respect their resolve... but I hope we can find a resolution to this mess and move on and defend our airline against what looks like some mega-carriers about to be created. I would hope that US Airways can once again become a great carrier we can all be proud to work for... Did I really say that? Damm, that was a strong drink...

 

[PCL_128]

With ALPA national threatening to force a contract down our throat without a ratification vote, this was quicker than replacing the MEC. Not much time left...

This is ridiculous. ALPA National is going to do no such thing. You're drinking too much of the spiked uSAPa kool-aid.

 

[PlaneDrvr]

If you problem is the AAA MEC (and it is), then recall them!!! Getting rid of ALPA and replacing it with a useless, impotent uSAPa will get you nothing. Replacing your MEC with competent leaders will likely lead to a consensual agreement that benefits both groups. You don't have to get rid of ALPA to get rid of your MEC. Why is this so difficult for some of you to understand?

Yes, you make it sound so simple, but I have some friends who work for US Air in CLT, and they put out a motion to recall the CLT LEC, but the council refuses to hear any part of it????? And, from what I have heard it is because the CLT LEC is kissing alpa national a$$, so national will not do anything about it. It all politics, and alpa national is Always going to do whatever they want, regardless. Example; "age 60" And, PCL_128, you worthless "pay for training" alpa cheerleader, before You say anything about the lack of participation in the age 60 survey, I did participate in the survey, and always had NO doubt (as did most alpa members), that even if the survey came back with 100% participating and 80% Against changing age 60, that 'alpa national' was going to push for the change, Period. As that was already decided and it did not matter what the memebership thought.

For what its worth.

DA

 

[PCL_128]

Yes, you make it sound so simple, but I have some friends who work for US Air in CLT, and they put out a motion to recall the CLT LEC, but the council refuses to hear any part of it????? And, from what I have heard it is because the CLT LEC is kissing alpa national a$$, so national will not do anything about it.

Your friends don't know what they're doing. If they'd read the Bylaws, they'd realize that just showing up to a Local Council meeting and asking for a recall isn't how the process works. If they follow the proper procedure, then a recall is actually very easy, and ALPA National will not stand in the way at all.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

USAPA is simply an emotional response to the events that have transpired over the past few years, designed to appeal to the uninformed. None of us think that 175s should be flying around in Airways colors without Airways pilots, but you have your fellow pilots to blame for that.

I liken USAPA to the 1981 movie TAPS with Tommy "Psyco Scientology" Cruise......

It's beautiful man!!! M-60 wide open!!! :uzi:

 

[GerryG]

I have no dog in this hunt and I viewed this thread out of curiosity, but ya know... Management is always behind these "Pilots Associations". ALWAYS

God help you if you take this bait. ALPA might be on the ropes right now but, good god wait until management has a direct conduit to your PA's leadership.

Did management start the whispering campaign yet about how everything is going to be honkie-dorie, if you guys vote this thing in?

 

[waveflyer]

Why I submitted the card.


1. ALPA agreed to do away with the pension with no pilot vote.

2. ALPA allowed the increase from 85 hours to 95 hours a month. that kept the furloughees out another 2 years at least.

3. ALPA allowed the sales outsourcing of the 170's and 175's, keeping the furloughees out and downgrading more Captains. At least we kept the 190's Thanks to the AWA guys as I understand it.

4. ALPA allowed the wholesale outsourcing frenzy of RJ's (hundreds of airframes) with over 1800 pilots on the street.

5. ALPA couldn't have cared less about me (furloughee) for the past five years, now that I have a vote they want to be my best friend again.

Just a partial list and I am not including the hose job at my furloughee job with another carrier at the hands of ALPA national.

For the last 6 years I have watched ALPA support whoever fills their pockets more, They seem to have lost sight of what their purpose is, not the "Association" as their letters to me keep stating, but the pilots.

Is USAPA the right choice? Dunno, but a little change is not always bad. Win or lose this process will have the effect of shaking things up and reminding the union (whoever it ends up being) what their real purpose is.....and it is not their bank account.

I think it's funny b/c i talk to AWA people and they haven't exactly been treated well by alpa- like a step-child actually- they talk of how ALPA national opened the strike fund for comair but not them, the latest being prater waffling on the Nic award- not fully backing it and truly energizing the idea that the award won't become final when it should have.

BUT IT'S THE TIMING. i don't think anyone's confused about why this is happening. This being the straw makes it so much more deplorable. You got screwed in every way possible- but it's a young guy being on equal seniority ground that puts you over the edge?? It's just crazy. Realize that the entire industry has younger pilots w/ better "seniority" than you. The fact that you merged w/ someone does not give you a right to jump over them and bump them down.

 

[Fast43]

Yes the union had to agree to all of it for the company to be allowed to do it. That is a very simplified version, but in the end that is the case. There is an ALPA signature on each one of those agreements.

It is not so much the fact that it happened as the way it happened, I sat for 6 years and watched ALPA roll over to mgmt. time and time again. If there are extenuating circumstances as to why they let scope, retirement, and all the other stuff go with no more than minimal lip service I am all ears. We still have some time before the vote.

Just curious, where were your elected Pilot Reps when all this occurred?

Could the "extenuating circumstances" you mentioned be related to 2 trips through Bankruptcy, where some hard, not so popular decisions had to be made. Is it possible that these decisions facilitated your return?

Fast

 

[737 Pylt]

....no hypocracy 737pylt......I'm looking out for number 1 also......and that ain't you..... If you can't beat'em.......join'em.....

No Johnny, don't you mean, if you can't beat em, sue them?!

It's clear by looking at the various issues that we all look at them from our own perspective and don't really give a darn about the affect on the other guy......Whether it senior/junior pay vs. pension, age 60, scope, or mergers.....I don't feel the love......

That love stopped the minute your gang of undesirables started their $$billion lawsuit!

While this isn't good for "collective" bargaining....it is a reality....Ignoring it and pretending that it doesn't exist simply means you will be run over by a fellow "brother".....

You and LJ are one in the same dude! I almost feel sorry for you. Too bad, some day you'll still be 55 years old flying your rj (since the atr is going), telling the twenty something year old new hires, "just how you tried to change the world" by suiing them!
You're pathetic dude. Your anti-alpa drivel is as old as your girlfriend! Your way of fixing it was to take notes, and not play nice at mec/lec meetings. As secretary treasurer you had a chance to be influencial, however you chose to just remain a prick!

737

 

[Fast43]

So the guys who will never see the left seat again should just say O.K.?

So now the Left seat is a birthright ?????

They have nothing left to lose except a crappy paying right seat position and retirement as a 30 year F/O. They can get that at any other carrier in the country, and if Airways goes down the tubes they have still lost nothing. No retirement loss, no seniority loss, no monetary loss....nothing. That is why they are fighting so hard and why from what I have seen why they will not relent or vote for anything that keeps then in the same position.

I have something to lose in this as do the other 400 or so that came back and are young enough to see the retirements out and still get to the left seat. The majority of the 3ooo + east guys do not. I lose and the west loses, but they do not.

If we do not come to some agreement that addresses these guys concerns airways is done, period. And telling them that an arbitrator said so is not going to stop them from trying to salvage something out of a 25 year career.

So then we are looking at a group of suicide bombers with their fingers on the button and we better give in or else !!!!!....................

While I do not like that prospect, I can see their point. You are 56 years old, making 80 k tops with 25 years served and NIC has said that that is as far as you will ever go and that you will retire in exactly the same position you are in today.......why on earth would he not do whatever was possible to try to salvage it? Worst case? He finishes out his career as a higher paid SWA F/O or UPS F/O or Allegiant Captain or Kalitta 747 Captain. Even as an Allegiant md-80 Cappy he does better than he does with the nic award.

Problem is, he didn't do that when he should have and now we have this mess.

I'm sure the attitudes of these guys are in great demand at those carriers!!! Should ace the interview.