What is the status of the ALPA De-certification vote at US Airways?

[tico]

As someone who is "enjoying the" results of an arbitrated settlement....Richard Kasher for Alaska Airlines.....where we (alpa) sued to have the award vacated as a result of non-compliance with the arbitration process on both Kasher and Alaska Airlines part......and where the federal court agreed that there was cause to vacate but that it did not want to set a precedent and that the benefit of the award standing was greater than the benefit of the award being vacated......I am wondering how a new union will affect any change in the Nicalau award...That arbitration is complete and will stand with alpa, usapa or no union at all.....So given that eventually, all of usair will be working under that award and that switching unions will have no outcome on that integration, what other benefit will come with a new union....I would certainly hope that the people who promised d.o.h. for integration are not now promising that will happen with this change.....Wasn't it whitesnake that said "once bitten twice shy baby"....Now I can see plenty of benefit with a new union especially if the old defunct alpa group from usair are not allowed to participate in the new union....A fresh start with new updated ideas could be a great thing.....I hope it works as it could be a model of things to come for all of us and it might drive some much needed change in the old alpa....

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

So ALPA '"allowed" all that stuff eh? I am an ardent ALPA hater. but that is just plain stupid.

Yes the union had to agree to all of it for the company to be allowed to do it. That is a very simplified version, but in the end that is the case. There is an ALPA signature on each one of those agreements.

It is not so much the fact that it happened as the way it happened, I sat for 6 years and watched ALPA roll over to mgmt. time and time again. If there are extenuating circumstances as to why they let scope, retirement, and all the other stuff go with no more than minimal lip service I am all ears. We still have some time before the vote.

 

[PCL_128]

Yes the union had to agree to all of it for the company to be allowed to do it.

No they didn't. The bankruptcy court would have approved far more onerous concessions, and then would have issued an injunction to prevent a work stoppage. ALPA did everything possible, and probably prevented far worse concessions that would have happened in an 1113(c) filing. It's easy to make ALPA your scapegoat, but you should place your blame where it belongs: an anti-labor government and anti-labor courts.

 

[Prog 2/2]

So ALPA '"allowed" all that stuff eh? I am an ardent ALPA hater. but that is just plain stupid.

Brother Ironspud, there you have the crux of it.

Nothing but scapegoating and a seat grab going on here.

This isn't about ALPA, its' failings, or a lack of representation, it's about the Nicolau decision. USAPA didn't exist the day before the seniority arbitration was concluded, and only exists now as a venue to bypass the agreed to process to gain a joint contract.

The east knows that they can never overturn Nicolau, that there will be no reordering of the seniority list, and that they can't vote in a new union and scrap the arbitration.

What they are trying to do is scrap ALPA so that the new contract will be negotiated by USAPA.

And that new contract will contain alot of fancy "bid restrictions", "seat protections", and fences that will effectively gut the arbitrated decision.

And that contract will pass, because the easties outnumber us, and the representation scheme outlined by USAPA is designed solely to disenfranchise the west.

Like I said, nothing but scapegoating and a seat grab.

"Runway heading to five, four flight attendants"

 

[ferlo]

USAPA is nothing but a pig with new lipstick on it...ALPA has failed me more ways than I'd like to remember but I will say this...my life would be worse without them. USAPA is a guaranteed destroyer of the next ten years. No Past Practice, 40% won't pay dues, endless litigation, no collective bargaining agreement...nothing. USAPA is a total wasteland. Parker will be laughing all the way to the bank for years upon years.

These East guys blame everybody but themselves for this B.S. "date of hire or nothing" stance they took. The East dug their own grave, and now like little 13 year old bitches, they won't stop crying. Beware of what you wish for, you just might get it. The damage USAPA can cause it's members is on par with any form of scab.

 

[ALGFLYR]

I am wondering how a new union will affect any change in the Nicalau award...That arbitration is complete and will stand with alpa, usapa or no union at all......

Well, I'm not sure how they are thinking, but here is a possible way...

The problem with the ALPA structure is that there are two groups (one from East and one from West) negotiating a joint contract. If the East negotiators wanted to make a change in the contract protecting the East bases or upgrades, and the West did not agree, that would never make it into a proposal.

However, if a new union wins the election, the entire pilot group would be under that one union and a lot of that East/West distinction as far as the union goes would go away. The new collective MEC would then create a new negotiating team.

I don't think management cares who upgrades as long as they can staff the airline. If the pay is the same, who cares which side they came from...

Section 22 of the contract says base and captain bids are based on seniority. They make a simple change to that language saying those will now be based on length of service with the company. The Nic. seniority list will stay intact, although it would be virtually meaningless as far as upgrading and bases are concerned...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

amazing....

 

[PCL_128]

Well, I'm not sure how they are thinking, but here is a possible way...

The problem with the ALPA structure is that there are two groups (one from East and one from West) negotiating a joint contract. If the East negotiators wanted to make a change in the contract protecting the East bases or upgrades, and the West did not agree, that would never make it into a proposal.

However, if a new union wins the election, the entire pilot group would be under that one union and a lot of that East/West distinction as far as the union goes would go away. The new collective MEC would then create a new negotiating team.

I don't think management cares who upgrades as long as they can staff the airline. If the pay is the same, who cares which side they came from...

Section 22 of the contract says base and captain bids are based on seniority. They make a simple change to that language saying those will now be based on length of service with the company. The Nic. seniority list will stay intact, although it would be virtually meaningless as far as upgrading and bases are concerned...

And you think the West pilots are going to just sit by and allow you and uSAPa to rape them? I think not. They'll refuse to pay dues, and with 40% of the pilot group not paying dues, the new "union" will be completely impotent (although these idiots would probably be impotent even if 100% paid their dues). Then a small group of West pilots that actually join and pay dues will be able to sue uSAPa for DFR, since a virtual abrogation of the Nic award is an obvious DFR breach. uSAPa would be bankrupt just trying to defend against the lawsuit, never even getting to the point of having to pay out a settlement. You guys are mind-numbingly stupid if you think this uSAPa nonsense will lead you to anywhere but immense failure.

 

[PositiveRate]

Keep in mind, most of the rhettoric and pure stupidity posted by the likes of Kerosene, BeCareful and Weasil Lips are guys who were furloughed and are the most disenfranchised of the East bunch.

You can pretty much ignore ALGFLYER - he was neither an America West employee or US Airways employee and should be thankful he even gets to fight with us as he backdoored his way in and should be happy to be at the bottom of the list, not scabbily salivating over some dream of a seat grab with the rest of the USAPA d-bags.

 

[Lampshade]

Well, I'm not sure how they are thinking, but here is a possible way...

However, if a new union wins the election, the entire pilot group would be under that one union and a lot of that East/West distinction as far as the union goes would go away. The new collective MEC would then create a new negotiating team.

You forgot about the TA I guess? We're under one union now btw!!

Section 22 of the contract says base and captain bids are based on seniority. They make a simple change to that language saying those will now be based on length of service with the company. The Nic. seniority list will stay intact, although it would be virtually meaningless as far as upgrading and bases are concerned...

How are you going to change your contract its not open for 2 years? And even then you think management's going to approve of that with a federal arbitration sitting on there desk? Apparently you haven't thought your plan through all the way (sounds like USAPA).

 

[vetrider]

Its still the same brain trust, they still haven't figured out that they can't just will it to happen their way. "You gotta understand......" "It has to......" Uh huh, right.

 

[Frank Lorenzo]

amazing....

Yes, it is amazing. In fact, I am a little disappointed. I was hoping I was going to be called in as a divide and conquer consultant. Looks like the pilots are doing a swell job themselves.

Thanks alot!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Yes, it is amazing. In fact, I am a little disappointed. I was hoping I was going to be called in as a divide and conquer consultant. Looks like the pilots are doing a swell job themselves.

Thanks alot!

Hey Frankie....

Dickie Cheney wants to know if you want to hang out with the Bushes and go huntin'.

This is a great opportunity for you.. to get together with your political allies!

 

[PHXFLYR]

Keep in mind, most of the rhettoric and pure stupidity posted by the likes of Kerosene, BeCareful and Weasil Lips are guys who were furloughed and are the most disenfranchised of the East bunch.

You can pretty much ignore ALGFLYER - he was neither an America West employee or US Airways employee and should be thankful he even gets to fight with us as he backdoored his way in and should be happy to be at the bottom of the list,.....

Sure did. Him and his buddy Trainer 8 sure think they're one of the boys now, don't they?

PHXFLYR

 

[JoeMerchant]

amazing....

...whats amazing is people like you thinking this is some brotherhood.....it is every man for themself......

...age 60, scope, and mergers.....It's all about me....