What is the status of the ALPA De-certification vote at US Airways?

[PCL_128]

What's your obsession with my vote?

A vote for uSAPa is a vote against ALPA and a vote against the West pilots that uSAPa aims to fu-- over. ALPA is the best thing out there for pilots, no matter its faults, and your attempts at decertification will harm the entire profession if you're successful.

 

[TWA Dude]

I dont really follow your argument.

My point is that while you can make true statements about your time flying for MDA they don't equate to being one-and-the-same as mainline USAirways. In any case, it's really not my argument to make. Nicolau knew exactly what MDA was, he made his decision and any judge will be hard-pressed to overrule him.

 

[waveflyer]

No one argues that Nic was fair and equitable.

I'll argue that sir. I believe it was fair and equitable under a seniority system and capitalistic system that is sometimes, and lately- often, not fair.

If you were 10% up the list after Nic you are now 12% up the list- but w/ increased ability to bid out west- how did you lose? (And make no mistake- as much as east pilots say they hate the award- there are many doing bad West->East commutes that really don't want fences put in. They were just hoping to slide in over the top of the AWA guys like your flight attendants will. Many more of your guys will bid west than AWA guys who will bid east.)

Before the merger you didn't care that you had junior FO's w/ 15+ years while America West and every other carrier had line holding captains w/ 10 years in. Why is it such a deal breaker now?

The reward for your longevity is your topped out pay. Noone has tried to take that from you.

You would be better served to use the credibility of the awful career you've endured to make changing companies easier within ALPA carriers- w/o the huge penalty of starting over. That's why you've seen such enormous paycuts. It's enormously stupid to have pilots so married to their companies.

 

[Turtle21]

I'll argue that sir.

No need to argue a rhetorical point. Sure, there are a few folk who believe in UFOs over Roswell too. And they are very sincere. They also have to admit that the vast majority of the population don't except what they see so there arguments really don't convince many.

 

[Turtle21]

A vote for uSAPa is a vote against ALPA and a vote against the West pilots that uSAPa aims to fu-- over. ALPA is the best thing out there for pilots, no matter its faults, and your attempts at decertification will harm the entire profession if you're successful.

Its a vote. You get to cast one ballet. I am not worried that your single vote will cause global warming, world hunger, and hyper inflation.

 

[PCL_128]

Its a vote. You get to cast one ballet. I am not worried that your single vote will cause global warming, world hunger, and hyper inflation.

I don't have a vote. Thankfully I'm not a part of that dysfunctional mess that you and your uSAPa buddies have created.

 

[PHXFLYR]

So the guys who will never see the left seat again should just say O.K.?

They have nothing left to lose except a crappy paying right seat position and retirement as a 30 year F/O. They can get that at any other carrier in the country, and if Airways goes down the tubes they have still lost nothing. No retirement loss, no seniority loss, no monetary loss....nothing. That is why they are fighting so hard and why from what I have seen why they will not relent or vote for anything that keeps then in the same position.

I have something to lose in this as do the other 400 or so that came back and are young enough to see the retirements out and still get to the left seat. The majority of the 3ooo + east guys do not. I lose and the west loses, but they do not.

If we do not come to some agreement that addresses these guys concerns airways is done, period. And telling them that an arbitrator said so is not going to stop them from trying to salvage something out of a 25 year career.

While I do not like that prospect, I can see their point. You are 56 years old, making 80 k tops with 25 years served and NIC has said that that is as far as you will ever go and that you will retire in exactly the same position you are in today.......why on earth would he not do whatever was possible to try to salvage it? Worst case? He finishes out his career as a higher paid SWA F/O or UPS F/O or Allegiant Captain or Kalitta 747 Captain. Even as an Allegiant md-80 Cappy he does better than he does with the nic award.

////////////////////////////////////////
PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

So the guys who will never see the left seat again should just say O.K.?

They have nothing left to lose except a crappy paying right seat position and retirement as a 30 year F/O. They can get that at any other carrier in the country, and if Airways goes down the tubes they have still lost nothing. No retirement loss, no seniority loss, no monetary loss....nothing. That is why they are fighting so hard and why from what I have seen why they will not relent or vote for anything that keeps then in the same position.

I have something to lose in this as do the other 400 or so that came back and are young enough to see the retirements out and still get to the left seat. The majority of the 3ooo + east guys do not. I lose and the west loses, but they do not.

If we do not come to some agreement that addresses these guys concerns airways is done, period. And telling them that an arbitrator said so is not going to stop them from trying to salvage something out of a 25 year career.

While I do not like that prospect, I can see their point. You are 56 years old, making 80 k tops with 25 years served and NIC has said that that is as far as you will ever go and that you will retire in exactly the same position you are in today.......why on earth would he not do whatever was possible to try to salvage it? Worst case? He finishes out his career as a higher paid SWA F/O or UPS F/O or Allegiant Captain or Kalitta 747 Captain. Even as an Allegiant md-80 Cappy he does better than he does with the nic award.

Well.if that's truly the case ,why didn't he go there already? Why tear down what's left of the place and put everyone else out of work along with you . Strange.

PHXFLYR

 

[Deadalus]

Strange is right. They'll be sitting there unemployed thinking, but I have so much experience. Yeah, crying like a baby and ruining a company don't look good on the old resume. Good luck getting a job anywhere else.

 

[coolyokeluke]

So the guys who will never see the left seat again should just say O.K.?
While I do not like that prospect, I can see their point. You are 56 years old, making 80 k tops with 25 years served and NIC has said that that is as far as you will ever go and that you will retire in exactly the same position you are in today.......why on earth would he not do whatever was possible to try to salvage it? Worst case? He finishes out his career as a higher paid SWA F/O or UPS F/O or Allegiant Captain or Kalitta 747 Captain. Even as an Allegiant md-80 Cappy he does better than he does with the nic award.

So why not put that anger to use and instead of fighting the windmill (a binding arbitration ruling) fight like hell for a new contract? Years have already been wasted.

 

[Turtle21]

I don't have a vote.

Voonderbar!

Sit back, relax, and eat your popcorn. Throwing it is sooooo tacky.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Voonderbar!

Sit back, relax, and eat your popcorn. Throwing it is sooooo tacky.

Perhaps you don't understand.... your decertifaction efforts will have ripple effects.


For example the Unit II staff at ALPA is trying to negotiate a better contract but JJ and his buds are telling them there might not be money casue the USAPA guys might put a huge whole in the budget....

Not that ALPA pilots really gave a shat about Herndon staff.....yet they sure expect them to perform for pilots. But you want others to care about your job right?

In addition, like scared stampeding cattle if the USAPA guys bolt for the emergency exit it might startle others into following... it would be similar to The Un-united States of America

But who cares right? This is really just about individuals... its about you.

But you liked what this profession had to offer you...when YOU wanted to become a pilot. And that is because the ALPA guys back then worked hard to make it attractive for you. It doesn't matter when you wanted to be a pilot... there was always some clown who wanted to destroy the profession: Lorenzo, Carty, EL Cord, Crandall, Ichon, etc.... They certainly didn't keep a bottom line professional standard so guys like you would still invest your livlihood in the profession.


This is about the profession. As much as we have a hate for ALPA, its like our dysfunctinal mother... She maybe phcuked up...but she is still our mother...

If you want this profession to serve you to retirement and also serve the next generation, then perhaps you ought to serve it..... just a little.

Keep ALPA and fix it.

 

[Turtle21]

.....Keep ALPA and fix it.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[Tweaker]

Just got back from my 4 day to read the responses to my post. Damn did it get ugly in here!
___So correct me if I misunderstand this, please. This card thing that recently concluded simply decides if a decertification/representational election will take place in the future? And the outcome of this is still unknown, but seems to be an eventuality (representational election).
___I think I am up to speed, but it is sad that this process is taking so long.

 

[Turtle21]

it is sad that this process is taking so long.

It is. ALPA is in full delay mode and ironically it just solidifies the resolve even more.

Election is probably around middle of March with count by end of April.

 

[m80drvr]

It is. ALPA is in full delay mode and ironically it just solidifies the resolve even more.

Election is probably around middle of March with count by end of April.

Once again Turtle you display your complete ignorance toward the facts.

ALPA has no control over this. It is the NMB that is driving this. It is their timetable that we are working from. Oh yeah it was USAPA's screw up with the ballots that caused the last delay.

It's amazing how some east guys will blame EVERYONE else for their F&%kups EXCEPT THEMSELVES. I suppose ALPA caused the current recession, the crisis in Darfur and the Tsunami a few years back.

And people wonder why USAir will be left out of the current merger mainia and will likely go out of business. No one, managemant OR pilot group will deal with your superior than thou attitude. I for one don't blame them.

 

[Turtle21]

Once again Turtle you display your complete ignorance toward the facts.

ALPA has no control over this. It is the NMB that is driving this. It is their timetable that we are working from. Oh yeah it was USAPA's screw up with the ballots that caused the last delay.

It's amazing how some east guys will blame EVERYONE else for their F&%kups EXCEPT THEMSELVES. I suppose ALPA caused the current recession, the crisis in Darfur and the Tsunami a few years back.

And people wonder why USAir will be left out of the current merger mainia and will likely go out of business. No one, managemant OR pilot group will deal with your superior than thou attitude. I for one don't blame them.

Nice choice of ignoring the relevant "facts", junior.:laugh:

The relevant fact is the election will likely occur in March, right after the "World Hunger ALPA Live Aid Concert", the "ALPA March for Gerbils", and the "ALPA Walk for FPL Carnival".

 

[TWA Dude]

This card thing that recently concluded simply decides if a decertification/representational election will take place in the future?

Correct. If there are sufficient cards USAPA estimates the election in a month or so.

And the outcome of this is still unknown, but seems to be an eventuality (representational election).

My guess is there will be an election.

I think I am up to speed, but it is sad that this process is taking so long.

I disagree. There's nothing sad about the NMB being thorough to ensure there are no irregularities.

 

[Turtle21]

I disagree. There's nothing sad about the NMB being thorough to ensure there are no irregularities.

Certainly ALPA's several motions that might be viewed as attempts to delay or obstruct the process do actually provide the NMB with the opportunity to magnify the legitimacy of the election, should it occur.

It would also serve to magnify ALPA's illegitimacy if they used this time to force a joint contract by receivership rather than representational consensus in the midst of a representational dispute that will be settled in a relatively short period of time.

 

[steveg]

Certainly ALPA's several motions that might be viewed as attempts to delay or obstruct the process do actually provide the NMB with the opportunity to magnify the legitimacy of the election, should it occur.

It would also serve to magnify ALPA's illegitimacy if they used this time to force a joint contract by receivership rather than representational consensus in the midst of a representational dispute that will be settled in a relatively short period of time.

And what exactly is representational consensus and a representational dispute? One side does not want it and is simply using it's numbers to screw the other. How is that a dispute or consensus? I think it's important for everyone to remember that all the talk about ALPA this and ALPA that, representational this and representational that, past wrongs, who will represent this or that, all boils down to one thing:


The east pilots are once again trying to screw the AWA pilots. Plain and simple. This is just the latest guise they put on.