What do RJET pilots think happens after RJET SLI?

[Mongolikecandy]

"Grab your ankles...it's on".

That's funny! (even as a junior AT FO)

 

[Toobdrvr]

Arjay, that was beautiful man (wipes tear). Couldn't have said it any better.

It only took 10 minutes!? That would've taken me days....

 

[arjayeffo]

Many thanks, my type 1 brother. Love the avatar.

RJFO

(p.s. - okay... Maybe fifteen minutes.)

 

[A320kid]

Honestly, do you guys really think we will be determined single carrier? I foresee FAPA and Management fighting it tooth and nail. I have no desire to "fight" for the RAH pilots because I know majority of them don't want to stay, so they will gladly take another slap in the face just for a small bump in pay and will move on (rightfully so) when things pick up.

 

[GuppyWN]

arayeffo,

I can't say it any clearer - I wish F9 and WN would have gotten the deal done.

And I still agree with almost everything you said. You and I are more alike than you want to admit. Pretty good dudes with fierce loyalty towards our carriers. I get it and I respect you for it.

Gup

 

[Kharma Police]

Guppy, let me be the first to wish you an early "Happy Five Year Anniversary" here on FlightInfo. I think your FI five year pin should be in the mail, and that "moderator" job offer can't be far behind - (I think Lear70's had enough). And you're still averaging OVER 1 post per day, for almost 1800 days straight. You must be so proud.

Sarcasm over.

Is there anything more entertaining than watching someone like Guppy backpedal? Guppy probably has more posts in Frontier threads than actual Frontier pilots combined! But then someone calls him out, and his response is that he doesn't "give a ****?" Well over a year later and he says that it "does no real good to dwell on it"?? If it does no good to dwell on it, then why the **** are you still dwelling on it?? Keep posting Guppy - that'll really prove how little you care. Credibility waning....

Lets add hypocrite to the list while we're at it. You have been on a mighty campaign to get people not to talk about *your* upcoming SLI. But thank God you have a place to come and talk about someone else's. It must be a great relief for you. Does harping on the misfortune of a group of pilots facing a less than ideal SLI make you feel better about your own coming fate? If so, I'm glad we could be of service. The doctor will see you now.




First of all, it's a Seniority List Integration. The number of pilots who are going to be pissed off is in the thousands, not just us poor 699. (But you realize this as much as anyone now, don't you?) However, I agree with you that the hiring projections are relevant. As I tried to tell one whiner on this site, all of the Frontier pilots who would have rather had a staple at Southwest NOW HAVE THAT CHANCE. If they get their app updated, and make the necessary donation to Higher Power, all of their dreams can come true. And if you are an F9 F/O, you might actually fare better. If you get on in one of the first few classes, you will actually have a better relative position than if you had come over as part of the entire pilot group. Looking at it this way, the failure of the Southwest buyout might actually be the best thing that ever happened for you. --- There are two kinds of people in the world - those who make the best of what they have, and those who uselessly bitch and moan about their lot in life waiting for someone or something to ride in and fix it for them. If any of your 'Frontier buds' meet description #2, will you please take them off of our hands? The entire NEW Frontier will be better off replacing them with Type #1. And I might just move up a couple of spots too. I personally believe that there is much more to QOL than the number on your paycheck. I also believe that familiar saying - "If you are just getting hired at the Airline that is the 'place to be', you are already too late." But to each their own.

The only time I get worked up enough to waste ten minutes posting on this site is when I am faced with the 2% SWA guys who give the rest of the cool people over there such a bad rap. Seriously, some of you guys have become even worse than the United pilots of the 90's in your god's gift to aviation image. I don't know what psychological self-esteem sinkhole you are trying to fill by insisting that every sane pilot on the Earth must want to work for Southwest, but if it helps you through your 6 leg day, then so be it. The type 1 people at Frontier notice that we are bringing back furloughs, adding cities and airplanes, and holding our own in the face of some of the lowest ticket prices in years at BOTH of our major hubs. The type 2 guy, only notices the negatives.

I tried to explain all of the positives at 'post-buyout Frontier' to Guppy in an FI exchange a year ago, and you know what his response was? He wrote me a Private Message and said that 'He agreed with almost everything I said, but was afraid that people might think he was a jerk'. We may share some opinions about how right I am, but we don't share the same concern about being viewed as a jerk. I know I'm one. Some days I wish I was more like StaySeated - well informed and tactful - but only sometimes. Most of the time, I use the anonymity of this forum to speak a nearly unfiltered mind. On the contrary, Guppy seems to be worried about how popular he is. Maybe I could learn from him, because it seeme like there are lots of guppy worshippers on this site. Hold up your baby, and let him kiss it for a photo-op. But be careful, just when he sends you a PM and you think he is your best friend, he'll whip out some SWA slogan of superiority and tell the Airtran pilots something like "Grab your ankles...it's on".

Wow, looks like somebody just got taken out to the woodshed for a good old country a$$ whipping.

 

[The Drizzle]

I have no desire to "fight" for the RAH pilots because I know majority of them don't want to stay, so they will gladly take another slap in the face just for a small bump in pay and will move on (rightfully so) when things pick up.

You just secured my FAPA vote right there.

 

[ricj41]

He doesn't speak for the vast majority of fapa pilots. We will all end up with the same work rules. The only difference will be pay scales for the airplanes. Ask yourself whose work rules do you want to be under. Fapa's or the teamsters. Who is currently defending there contract better. Fapa or the teamsters. I was surprised at how many grievances we filed this year,how many were ruled in favor of the pilot at the vp level and how many have gone to arbitration. How many grievances have the teamsters filed this year?

 

[A320kid]

He doesn't speak for the vast majority of fapa pilots. We will all end up with the same work rules. The only difference will be pay scales for the airplanes. Ask yourself whose work rules do you want to be under. Fapa's or the teamsters. Who is currently defending there contract better. Fapa or the teamsters. I was surprised at how many grievances we filed this year,how many were ruled in favor of the pilot at the vp level and how many have gone to arbitration. How many grievances have the teamsters filed this year?

ricj41, are you a F9 captain or FO? The only reason I ask is because most captains at F9 are much more "optimistic" than our FO's. Frontier FO's have much more to loose and collectively are more pessimistic. Just my opinion, but you wont hear too many FO's saying I can't wait until we are on the same list! Speaking for just myself and not the fapa majority, I am not excited to inherit the crappy IBT work rules/pay/QOL that will ultimately be FAPA's new burden for negotiating if determined a single carrier. WE all know that RAH will ultimately want to take from the F9 side to adjust the Ejet pay.

So let me ask you ricj41, are you willing to, at best, keep your current pay in order for the RAH guys to make more on the 190? Work rules aside, my vote is NO. So before you start the single list rah rah (no pun intended) remember that the RAH pilot outnumber us and given a single union what do you think their vote will be? Reduce the Airbus pay for the lonely $37 hr FO's? My guess is the that they will all take the latter given their history. Just my observation not fapa.

 

[A320kid]

You just secured my FAPA vote right there.

Drizzle it really won't matter. I personally believe that we will never be determined a single carrier. Two scenarios exist based upon how the SLI is awarded. If it looks more like the IBT proposal then I am positive you will see FAPA fight very hard and draw this thing out for years. BB has gone on record several times stating that he will do whatever is necessary to keep the list separate. Just my opinion.

 

[jacksjj]

So before you start the single list rah rah (no pun intended) remember that the RAH pilot outnumber us and given a single union what do you think their vote will be? Reduce the Airbus pay for the lonely $37 hr FO's? My guess is the that they will all take the latter given their history. Just my observation not fapa.

Now, let me lead by saying I could be misinterpreting what you're saying. However, I think you're implying that us RAH FOs will sell everyone else down the river for a slight raise in pay because we are short sighted and want a raise.

This could not be farther from the truth.

BB made comments recently that he would like to get a 2 year contract extension almost immediately (to secure financing I'm sure) with a bump in FO pay and a 195 pay scale. Although there has been no definitive statements from anyone on what is being offered, if anything - the resounding (and I'm talking 99%) sentiment is a fat "get bent." When negotiations FINALLY do come around in full swing, I hope (and pray) that my intuition is correct about my current comrades in saying we would all rather burn this place down than give an inch to BB and WH.

This place has been, for a while, almost as demoralizing a place as Nazi Germany. The sooner you guys realize who you're dealing with in the puzzle palace, the better. We need ONE UNIFIED pilot group to bring these guys to their knees. Every single day we bicker amongst ourselves is a day closer they get to winning the battle, and probably the war.

 

[Captain Morgan]

I'm a RAH/CHQ First Officer, and BB and WH can kiss my ass!

 

[A320kid]

When negotiations FINALLY do come around in full swing, I hope (and pray) that my intuition is correct about my current comrades in saying we would all rather burn this place down than give an inch to BB and WH.

The difference is that Im not willing or wanting to "burn this place down" for you guys. I still enjoy a good QOL and pay and want to continue doing so. By all means burn the FFD side down, I'll be fine on the real Frontier side and honestly prefer to stay here. I think the RAH pilots need us more than we need them. FAPA has successfully won (don't quote me) 85% of all grievances filed with RAH management and I fully believe we get the respect deserved while the IBT and RAH pilot group get treated like a bunch of red headed step children.

My point regarding the 190 FO and captain pay is that if in fact all of you hate working for RAH so much that you are comparing it to a Nazi camp, why are you willing to "burn it down" for a better future? my guess is that the IBT will sway your group with the new proposal and you will take it on the chin again because you would rather get your small raise now and then get the hell out when given the chance. Again, just my personal opinion, not trying to throw flame.

 

[En Mort Main]

Wow you just sound like a D.ick in general.
Hope you enjoy RAH for many years....you exemplify what management wants in their pilots ....unity.

En Mort Main

P.s. Last quarter wasn't it the FFD side of RAH that turned a profit after taxes and one time expeditures? Ah well a new quarter of profits will be announced ...lets see how each side of the company turns a profit...guaranteed the FFD side will show a profit.

 

[The Drizzle]

I fully believe we get the respect deserved while the IBT and RAH pilot group get treated like a bunch of red headed step children

And you don't see this as a management tactic to get you right into the attitude you currently have? Don't think we didn't see both the tactic and the outcome over a year ago. This is airline management 101 and they're winning. Must be nice for BB and WH to know that you are on their team.

 

[likeitis]

And you don't see this as a management tactic to get you right into the attitude you currently have? Don't think we didn't see both the tactic and the outcome over a year ago. This is airline management 101 and they're winning. Must be nice for BB and WH to know that you are on their team.

I don't think it can be classified as a tactic if it been that way all along. I would say it's the culture and your pathetic union allows it or is so incompetent it's useless against it. I think FAPA has proven how useless they are because they haven't seemed to have all the problems enforcing their contract that IBT has. You guys think you have the market cornered on evil management. I'd say UAL, Spirit, AMR and AirTran have some pretty brutal management but their unions actually win grievances a good share of the time.

 

[SizzleChest]

FAPA has only had to deal with RAH for a little over a year.... that's why there aren't many grievances. and those that they have had, it was in RAHs best interest to settle (MKE domicile, etc.). 11 years with RAH like the IBT has had and there will be far more grievances. Also, there is a branded side that is make or break for RAH. That $hit has gotta work. The FFD side was on autpilot for the most part so it wasn't so critical before and easier to violate agreements.

 

[jacksjj]

I don't think it can be classified as a tactic if it been that way all along. I would say it's the culture and your pathetic union allows it or is so incompetent it's useless against it. I think FAPA has proven how useless they are because they haven't seemed to have all the problems enforcing their contract that IBT has. You guys think you have the market cornered on evil management. I'd say UAL, Spirit, AMR and AirTran have some pretty brutal management but their unions actually win grievances a good share of the time.

Yeah, but UAL, Spirit, AMR, and Airtran didn't have that lying, cheating, stealing, SOB crook that was Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeene running the show for them like we did. He was the main problem that got us into this mess, and we are still trying to right his wrongs.

 

[likeitis]

Yeah, but UAL, Spirit, AMR, and Airtran didn't have that lying, cheating, stealing, SOB crook that was Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeene running the show for them like we did. He was the main problem that got us into this mess, and we are still trying to right his wrongs.

He was successful at being crooked because of the apathy of the pilot group. No one was minding the store. You don't see that happening at UAL, Spirit, AMR, and AirTran because the members have the leadership under a microscope. Not so much at RAH.

 

[Flying Illini]

He was successful at being crooked because of the apathy of the pilot group. No one was minding the store. You don't see that happening at UAL, Spirit, AMR, and AirTran because the members have the leadership under a microscope. Not so much at RAH.

RAH does now. We learned our lesson the hard way, the same mistakes will never again be repeated.