What are the RJ rumors at ALG and PDT

[WileE]

I don't think pay is the issue.

It doesn't matter all that much how much the guys up front are getting paid. Really if you break it down by the hour, it doesn't make all that much difference when you compare the cost of the crew making 80 bucks per hour versus 100 bucks when you are burning ten times that much in fuel over the same period.

I think right now, the reason that some of the contract carriers are going to be getting RJ's before the WO's is that they have the ability to finance them RIGHT NOW, not in a year or two if and when the whole bankrupcy thing is settled. For example Mesa already has 59 jets fully financed that will hit the flight line in the next six months (the first deliveries start next week). As soon as the contract is signed, it will get the financing to buy a hell of a lot more. It also has the capital right now to train all the new pilots required. They are already buying all the available sim time in the country for the next year and are negotiating sim time in other countries, including Canada, Germany and Brazil to handle the overflow.

That is why US Air is talking about more than 400 new jets at Mesa in the next 4 years, because Mesa can do it. Then, in 4 years when Mesa is in position to buy out US Air and America West, that's when the pilots will have the leverage to get the compensation they deserve. But that all depends on Mesa pilots signing the contract and killing Freedom and any future possibility of Johnny O ever pulling that kind of whipsaw tactic ever again.

 

[Beantown]

Posted by BLZR "There are those who'll do it for less than $18,000 and it has killed the industry for all of us."
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When you were a first year FO at ALG or PDT, How much did you make? My guess is that you were once one of the guys that are killing the industry. Your post is a joke. -Bean

ps, One of the main reasons you buy a house is b/c it will normally appreciate over time. Airplanes like cars don't. That analogy doesn't hold water. Nice try though.

 

[blzr]

Couple of things, three years ago I was a new hire at PDT. Our first six months pay was $23.50 and second six was $24.70/hr. After the first year i think it was 26 or 27/hr. There ya have it. I had a chance to go to Mesa, but after talking to ome of my fellow Freight dogs, decided that I could make more money flight instructing or flying freight. Could have gone to Comair, but they were still PAY for Training.. Not a chance..

Ok, Next.... That is absolutely obsurde to think that Mesa will purchase not only one large airline, but TWO?? Reach behind you and put on that O2 mask and take a few deep breaths. Nice try, but That is never going to happen.. really didn't need addressing

back to the pay issue, How many of your captains made 40,000 last year? how many of your f/o's came close to that? I bet none unless you are selling AmWay on the side...

Ok... Anybody heard anything useful reguarding the W/O?

 

[Beantown]

Couple of things, three years ago I was a new hire at PDT. Our first six months pay was $23.50 and second six was $24.70/hr. After the first year i think it was 26 or 27/hr. There ya have it. I had a chance to go to Mesa, but after talking to ome of my fellow Freight dogs, decided that I could make more money flight instructing or flying freight.

Thats the problem with flight instructors and fright dogs. You are only looking at year one or two when you should be looking at the long run. If you had gone to Mesa three years ago, you would be a Jet Capt. instead of a Dash Fo. A third yr Jet Capt at Mesa makes around $55 an hr. What are you making right now as a Dash FO?

How many of your captains made 40,000 last year? how many of your f/o's came close to that?

All the Capt that are not on the 1900 make over $40,000. The only reason you have FO's coming close is that the upgrade time is so long that you have very senior guys at FO. Not a issue at Mesa.

 

[blzr]

Now, hang on there skippy... I did look at the future.... thinking that the regionals were a stepping stone to a major.. looks like it is the other way around.

Sure, I looked t the first year pay, and upgrade time and PDT had what I was looking for. The ability to upgrade in a reasonable amout of time and not starve to death in the process.

Work rules were a big issue. Is it true that you guys could get stuck in a hold and be, like .5 or.7 over block and not get paid for it? can you guys go to the airport and sit all day with a broken airplane and only make per diem? That is so not right.
If your line id blocked for , say 85 hrs, are you guaranteed those hrs, or can you make less? For Feb, I have 102hrs CREDIT.. that's what I get paid, +perdiem, and any overages..So, pay is somewhat the issue, but work rules is where you make money.

I know alot of people are STILL saying that the regionals are just a stepping stone... but to where?

 

[WileE]

Not absurd.

A LONGSHOT, maybe. But the thing is, it is completely possible. All it takes is assets. Right now Mesa is one of the few airlines operating in the black and it is only a short way from that magic line that divides regionals from majors. Now US Air is talking 400+ new jets for Mesa and with United talking the same kind of deal you could see almost 1000 jets flying Mesa colors by 2008. That's a lot of growth and a lot of assets.

And one thing you are forgetting is that miserable bastard that he is, there is one that Johnny O can claim to be and that's a true corporate raider. It sucks to have one on the other side of table during salary negotiations, but if it's turned the other way, it's good to have a shark working at the top of your company.

Johnny O has publically stated that his mission in life right now is to take over America West, he's just waiting for them to stumble. You must also have a short memory, because there was a lot of discussion not too long ago about Johnny O and Mesa being one of the few in position to seriously buy out US Air. Things haven't changed, especially with his good buddy now the CEO of USAir.

Will it happen? That's speculation. But I personally won't be suprised if it does.

 

[blzr]

NO, SERIOUSLY, O2 BOTTLE OVER YOUR SHOULDER... A FEW HITS ON THAT AND YOU'LL START TO REGAIN CONSCIOUSNESS..

There is one catch to J/o's plan... RSA, another corporate Giant, not raider, and he's not to keen on mesa or that bunch out of Texas that tried to buy a large chunck of US Air.

As for yall becomming a major, I doubt it. I may just be the eternal optimist, but I just don't see US Air farming out any more work when they emerge from Ch11.. Just look at Continental, and that is basically the same buisness plan that U is using. No contractors, in control of all their feed, and.... turning a profit.

As far as United is concerned, Don't count your chickens before they hatch. First they have to survive, and second, air Whisky and ACA will be in line before you guys. Keep em comming though..

Why does Wile Kyote "Super Genious" always get outsmarted by a SPEEDBIRD??

 

[WileE]

Outsmarted? Hardly.

There's method to the ol' coyotes madness. Two words: Job Security Baby! That's what it's all about.


Anyway, as far as the other stuff goes, time will tell. Anything can happen in this biz. Look back just a couple years and see if anyone could have guessed the state of the flying business now.

 

[LearLove]

adf1856 which is it ??????

I'm stumped that you can PM me and tell me your DOH is 1997. If you do a search on your screen name 2 posts in oct of 2002 clearly have you stating that you are in the Nov. 7 2002 class and swam for 14 months. Which is it? Are you trying to push yourself as someone your not. Some of us on this board may get into heated arguements and spit and spat for posts on end but we don't missrepresent ourselves.

Plus if your DOH was 1997 at Chit why are you still an FO. I know for a fact that upgrade there is less than 6 years. And don't tell us you didn't upgrade b/c you wanted a good sked. A 97 DOH could hold the top few Capt. slots at Chit at every base except maybe Indy. O also if your DOH is 97 that makes you a PFT piece of trash.

So which is it?????

 

[dakotaHC8]

I was not knocking Pinnacle, in fact I think it is a good example of future events at US Airways. It was not far into the past that specific company was suffering through a massive transfer of flying to Mesaba right after NW had puchased the airline from Brady.

But then something curious happened, NW realized that it was more profitable to place that flying in house with Pinnacle than to farm it out to Mesaba (even though NW owns a fair portion of Mesaba). Plain and simple, contract carriers are not always the cheaper option and the dramatic shift in RJ growth between the NW Airlink carriers is a prime example.

We at the wholly owneds have negotiated and accepted steep concessions not only to participate in the recovery of our organization (US Airways Group), but to make us more than competitive with affiliated "partners" that US Airways has used beforehand. In the past few years it has been because of the economic advantage your cost structures held over our organizations, and recently it is the necessity to obtain regional jet feed as fast as possible. But as soon as US Airways is able to free itself of the restrictions and limits that a bankruptcy filing produces, it is obvious that a different course will emerge.

The difficult choice for pilots at places like MEsa and CHQ is that their enviorment was designed to get in and get out. With the limited hiring avail to such pilots until 4-5 years from now (maybey) they are realizing that they must make the best of the situation they are in right now. As such, pressure exists to improve work rules and pay rates above current book. The problem is that not much leeway exists until that pushes their costs above what US Airways can do it for themselves.

Too bad, if we had to move backwards because of such "airlines", then I do not feel too much sympathy for those pilots dealing with their "wal-mart" enviorment for the next half decade.

 

[spike]

You guys can't answer a simple question.

I didn't ask for a bunch of your BS. I asked what people at ALG and PDT were heating. Didn't any one teach you ATFQ.

 

[blzr]

Ok, here's something for all of us at the wholly owned to chew on. This is not a rumor. Teamsters update posted in AVL stated that PSA would start returning all DO-328's back to lessors in Sept'03, and would complete the process by Oct '04. Nothing stated beyond that. Next time in AVL, check it out.

LATR AV8R...

 

[AceCrackshot]

The WO situation for the bottom half their senority lists is "Hold the Ankles!"

 

[328dude]

Blzr: Actually, that's incorrect. 6 airplanes are going away in June. With the whole thing to be done with in Oct as you said.

Rumors are flying around PSA right now. We do know that the airplanes are going away. Are they going to be replaced? Almost definitly. Why? Read below. Alot of money to be spent if they were getting rid of us. I also hear good things for the other two as well but they need to resolve the contract issues before Marchg 31st.


D A Y T O N
BUSINESS JOURNAL
From the April 5, 2002 print edition
Airline plans $7.7M Dayton expansion
Kevin Kemper DBJ Staff Reporter

A Dayton-based airline is expanding at Dayton International Airport and adding more than 100 jobs.

PSA Airlines, a regional US Airways Express carrier headquartered at Dayton International, plans to turn a former NCR training facility, adjacent to the Dayton International Airport Hotel, into an office and technology center.

The project will cost more than $7.67 million and create 116 jobs by the end of 2002.

According to a Montgomery County Economic Development/Government Equity grant application, PSA is planning the expansion because US Airways expects to increase service to PSA.

According to the most recent airport statistics, PSA already is seeing an increase in its passenger load, though the airline was hurt by the slowdown in the travel industry following the Sept. 11 terror attacks. In February, PSA had 34 percent more passengers than a year ago. For all of 2001, however, the number of PSA passengers was 10.5 percent lower than in 2000.

To accommodate the expected increase in service, PSA is proposing a $7 million investment in new equipment, machinery and the creation of 116 jobs. The jobs will consist primarily of office and maintenance positions and will have an average salary of $30,000 to $35,000.

The former NCR training center PSA wants has been vacant for more than 10 years.

Renovating the space will cost approximately $676,000. After the renovation, it will include office, training and conference space.

PSA will sign a 25-year lease and begin work on the project in June. The project is scheduled for an October completion and will bring the city of Dayton annual income tax revenue of $344,475 and property tax revenue of $17,500.

The city of Dayton is requesting $200,000 on behalf of PSA to offset construction costs. This project is one of two the city of Dayton is hoping will receive ED/GE funding this spring, and city officials say it has their highest priority. On May 10, the ED/GE advisory board is expected to pick which projects will be funded. Montgomery County commissioners will vote on the projects soon after.

PSA also is expecting to get development incentives of $450,000 from the Ohio Department of Development and $26,000 from the city of Dayton.

PSA Airlines began operating in Dayton in 1986 as a hub feeder for Piedmont Airlines, operating under the name Jetstream. In 1987, the company moved its corporate headquarters to Dayton and established maintenance facilities in Dayton and Hagerstown, Md. In November 1988, US Air acquired Piedmont, and Jetstream became a wholly owned subsidiary of US Air. In 1995, Jetstream changed its name to PSA Airlines, and in 1997 US Air changed its name to US Airways.

 

[WileE]

Dude!

That article was published over four months before USAir declared Chapter 11. You think that the long term plans at PSA might have changed just a little bit since then?

I think coming up with something a little more recent to support your position might be a better idea. At the rate things are changing in this business right now, anything older than a month ago is ancient history.