What are the RJ rumors at ALG and PDT

[Dash8]

I have no idea what the other workgroups concessions consisted of. Probably not much different from ours, but we took pay cuts and changes in our medical benefits costs among other things that escape my memory at the moment. All to let group put more rj's off-site instead of at the WO's, which is fine I guess, I'd rather stay in the dash than fly that tiny sh*tbox junkjet.

Quote of USAirways propaganda article:
"Embraer regional jets have stand up cabins and large overhead bins"
Thats true, if your a circus midget, and don't take any carry-on's.

If the general public weren't such idiots in believing everything the media mis-reported we wouldn't be in as bad a situation as we are.

i hate people.....

 

[79%N1]

New wo slogan.....

"Jets, never had 'em ----- never will"!

 

[AceCrackshot]

Or my personal favorite found on an ALG crew bag...

Flying Yesterday's Airplane into Tomorrow!

We can also try,

We're Express, We care Less.

It's not just the destination, its the journey, and you'll have alot
more time to enjoy the journey in a Dash 8.

Piedmont, it's like Great Lakes, only with bigger props!

My plan was to build ducting out of thermal tape, attach it to the
APU duct, trick out the WOW switch, and run the APU in in flight.
Voila! An RJ.

 

[WSurf]

It's amazing how the whipsaw has cut into the 3 wholly owns. PSA of course has nothing to lose with there terrible contract. Plus the fact the MEC makes there choices without pilot input. Here at PDT we have so many pilots with over 14years of Dash 8 time, they aren't going anywhere (they are happy), or nobody wants a pilot with 13,000 hrs of DHC time. Plus the fact there isn't many jobs out there. So they just want to see PDT stay in Buisness. Not sure whats going on with ALG, I am sure the same as PDT.
The Whipsaw is a small part of the problem. I think the worst is MESA and the fact they are gonna sign a Contract that will put the whole regional airlines back about 10years. I think the United Express guys better listen up, because Mesa is in talks with United right now. Mesa, if you guys sign this TA, you have doomed the regionals, and you think just the WO's hate you. Wait and see have the whole industry treats you soon. Wake up and have some balls. There is no reason you shouldn't have a contract like ACA, Comair, etc. YOU FLY THE SAME A/C. You do the same job.
Good Luck!

 

[79%N1]

WSURF,

Come on man, were talking about Mesa pilots here! What do you think they will do????

 

[WSurf]

True!!!! True!!!!!

 

[WSurf]

Today in bankruptcy court US Airways CFO Neal Cohen revealed that US Airways has secured financing for $3 to $4 billion for RJs, contingent upon solving the pilot pension plan dilemma.

For US Airways Group, there will be 80 to 100 RJs delivered by December 31, 2004 and the business plan calls for MidAtlantic Airways and US Airways' subsidiaries will eventually operate 160 RJs.

Separately, it has come to my attention that MidAtlantic Airways will have three EMB-170 RJs in service in October 2003.

 

[blzr]

That sounds about right. The News last night had a blurb about the pilots pension plan, and it didn't sound too good. "Either the pilots give it up, or we will liquidate" said Dave Seigal.If something isn't done soon, the wholl RJ thing is totally moot.

 

[Beantown]

Come on man, were talking about Mesa pilots here! What do you think they will do????

I can't believe how much trash you guys talk about Mesa and there contract when you guys just caved in to save your own jobs. I understand why you did what you did but talk about a double standard. My guess is that you guys folding like cheap tents on your contracts cost the Mesa pilots slightly better rates in there TA. Think about it. You guys are there competition. (I know you guys don't like competition but get used to it) They know they need to keep there costs below yours or they will lose there codeshare with U (and half there jobs). Now that you guys caved, they were forced to accept less to keep there jobs. Everyone is saying that Mesa will bring down the industry with this TA, maybe you guys already started the avalanche. -Bean

 

[blzr]

Simple fact Bean. Yall lowered the bar for everyone. Thanks a million.

With what is comming down the pipe at airways, either we survive the pilot pention issue, or we don't. Either way, I think it is safe to say that mesa and the contractorw will be extremely limited on flying here. Maybe you'll be in United colors next?? or even delta or American. It's all the same to you guys, you are just a temp agentcy anyway right?

 

[WSurf]

Beantown,

Here's the deal. Pay rates are Pay rates!!! Our President would easily pay us 100.00per hr to fly the Dash 8 at PDT. But in return he would want our work rules. Pay doesn't me crap unless you have work rules. And you guys at Mesa are gonna role over and take Crappy work rules which affect the whole industry. I have yet to see a my check reflect a pay cut at PDT. Work Rulz, REMEMBER work Rules. Min. Day, CX pay, Premium Pay, Vaction, Days off, Block or Better. None of which Mesa has. You guys couldn't get 90hrs of pay credit if you wanted to.
Yea we took pay cuts because of Chapter 11, but our working conditions are 100% better then yours. So get with the program and make us proud! Vote that TA down, the whole industry is watching you guys.. Good Luck

 

[79%N1]

EXACTLY WRONG Bean!!!! Totally opposite.

The US wholly owned guys had to make concessions to bring their contract down to the Mesa level. They were threatened liquidation if they did not accept those rates, and whip sawed against one another to get these concessions! And for what? To see Mesa still get the RJ growth! Mesa set the bar that low, and management demanded all regionals accept that crap or their company would go bye bye. Sorry, but you have it all backwards!

 

[Beantown]

EXACTLY WRONG Bean!!!! Totally opposite.

And I disagree. Yes, Mesa's contract sucks and it made it hard to compeate. I used to work at CCAir. We had the same great work rules you guys have. Mesa's contract got us shut down and furloughed. We lost! The facts are that this is America not the Soviet Union. There will always be competition and someone with lower costs. Why do you think all the majors are dying? Heard of Southwest? They are cheaper. Its that simple. Are they the scum of the industry? When there costs get higher (do to increased longevity in the pilots/employees lists) someone else will fill the void (Jblue/Airtran ect.). You guys think that b/c you are WO you should get special treatment. I say good luck. The only way any company will do that is if it makes economic sense. Again good luck. The scope in Mesa's contract will stop Mgmt from doing what they did to us at CCAir. A great contract without scope and one list is useless! You guys just found that out to. Mesa could turn down this TA, get another TA that is great and then JO will turn them into another CCAir. What good does that do? I'm rambling and it's dinner time. See ya. -Bean

 

[Dash8]

grapevine

Well, spoke with a Mesa Cpt the other day up in wacko junction (BTV).
He was quite amicable about our situation at the wholly owneds and the affect their TA will have on everyone here and the industry in general.
His take was that most of the senior guys/cap'ts were going to shoot it down, cause they knew it was a piece of crap and wouldn't want to be part of it. BUT, he figured a very large (read: most of them) percentage of the FO's would vote for it because it could mean fast upgrades for them(and since their majority concern is only their getting to the right seat as fast as possible and nothing else{otherwise why would they be working at mesa to begin with}) and time in bigger aircraft.
So that the end result will be a close race for ratification of the TA.

A foul harbinger indeed....

D8

I don't mean to disparage everyone at mesa, I know there are a few good people there, it's just an unfortunate 'mob mentality' and I don't mean the "guys with middles names of THE" type of mob. (ie. Jimmy the Squirrel)

 

[dakotaHC8]

>>>You guys think that b/c you are WO you should get special treatment<<<

Two simple reasons:

1. Since WE are PART of US Airways, WE gave large concessions to help the recovery of OUR airline. What has any of our so called "partner" pilot groups given...? If US Airways goes down, so do we... as we are the SAME company. Although it would mean a great inconvience for outfits like Mesa, they would simply move along to find new business elewhere if Airways folds. (ie; when United dropped Mesa in the 90's because they just sucked too much, Mesa just moved on). We deserve special "treatment" because everything WE do is to profit US Airways, not some outside company with it's own agenda. We might wear the same uniform some of the time, but the next day you just might be in some other airline's colors flying for our competition, right...?

2. I LOVE FREEDOM, if only for the reason that Mesa pilots finally get a taste of what they had been doing to other pilot groups for years. Let me make sure I understand your complaints. You guys do not like Freedom because you now have to "compete" for flying with this other group of pilots willing to do it cheaper (in return for fast upgrades and jet equipment). Your years of experience and hard work were overlooked by your own company as they turned to outsiders to handle the flying you feel is rightfully yours. Even though Freedom "bought" it's own aircraft, it was your company that payed for them when they could have just as easily spent the money on you. You hold nothing but scorn and contempt for the Freedom pilot group only because they have trespassed upon what you consider to be "your" turf...

Well that's how we at the Wholly Owneds feel about all of you outsiders w/in US Airways Express as well. I laugh at the hypocrisy as you guys knock Freedom or Republic for stealing the flying you never owned in the first place. No honor amoung theives eh...?

THAT"S why WE are different because we ARE part of the company you are "partners" with. The only "special treatment" I expect is a safe, reliable piece of equipment that I can effectively compete with for MY company. But the reality is that we actually end up "competing" with the endless horde of pilot groups willing to undercut our pay/rules to reap whatever flying they can. So go ahead and vote in your next lame contract, but dont hurt yourself while patting your own back because we both know it is only to continue the legacy that "Freedom" and "Republic" represent today...


Centennial, Aspen, West Air, Allegheny, Air Midwest, Crown... Names ring a bell...? Freeedom is just instant karma for you guys... Enjoy!

 

[WSurf]

Good Post "dakotaHC8"!

 

[WileE]

Of course

Since you are part of US Air then you are also part of the problem there and part of the reason the company is in bancrupcy. You shouldn't be all that suprised if trimming the WO's down is part of the solution they are going to come up with.

 

[FR8mastr]

Dakota, good post. Why was Allegheny on the list on the bottom of your post? I don't get it.

Wile E I dont think you understand the economics of the WO

 

[dakotaHC8]

The list was a short history of many carriers that Mesa bought all of or a large precentage of assets from, to the detriment of the original pilot group and the advantage of the Mesa pilots. Allegheny was included in that list due to the events of 1994, that had Mesa buying half of ALG, causing the furlough of half of the ALG pilot list. All becuase Mesa was "willing to do it cheaper".

The "deal with the devil" the Mesa pilot group has maintained until recently was to give management a poor contract in return for fast upgrades and (in the recent years) jet equipment. As long as the "primary" pilot group at mesa was willing to work for less, they were rewarded by being placed either above the other pilots or just plain assumed all of the additional flying for themselves.

This was the classic Mesa stategy, to come in, purchase another regional airline, and then create cost reductions by replacing the entire work force or at least the working agreements that had been in place. This was accomplished by shifting flying to some "new" airline, or firing eveyone only to interview and "rehire" those they wanted to retain the next day, to just tacking them at the bottom of Mesa's list.

Through all of this the mesa pilot group could act "innocent", claiming that it was their management that was responsible, while they sat back and reaped the windfall of growth. They felt no real need to try and elevate their own pay or working conditions because it would mean they could no longer take advantage of other pilot groups. The typical Mesa pilot's defense was "Hey, I ain't planning to be in the commuters any longer than I have to so what do I care about how bad it is now, or who I have to step over...?"

But today things have changed somewhat, as plentiful mainline jobs are nowhere to be found, and most mesa pilots will have to remain at Mesa for much longer than they might have expected. It's one thing to put up with all of the fun and games for low pay when you are 20-something, zipping around in your B-1900, but reality starts to set in when you still fly 15-20 Million dollar jet equipment for low pay and sad work rules. Having to foot the bill for a house payment and diapers in ytour 30's alters your perception of that kind of work enviorment. Regardless of this change, this new agreement WILL pass at Mesa. Too many of their pilots will look at things with the same viewpoint as their mesa predesessors and will vote yes to obtain a quick upgrade and jet time. That is their decision to make, and really does not effect the wholly owneds anymore. even though some smarter individuals at Mesa have awoken to the new reality facing them, the majority will have to discover what awaits them in the next few years after their new agreement is voted in.

But that is their problem to deal with and not the wholly owned pilots. We instead chose to retain our work rules and give on the pay scales, thus making it much easier time to regain our losses down the line (negotiating for pay equal to other airlines is much easier than obtaining premium pay or a retirment plan). We chose to further our career growth into our mainline operation via a flow thru rather than settle for low pay in large Canadairs as our goal.

I do not hold any animosity towards any specific mesa pilot, just to towards the actions/decisions of their pilot group. I would show (and expect in return) professional courtesy and have the same expectation of safe and capable flying towards/from a Mesa, CHQ, TSA, Colgan, or Shuttle America pilot that I would any wholly owned pilot. But I draw the lline at sympathy for their situation.

But then all of this is just my humble opinion, right...?

 

[FR8mastr]

Dakota, I completely forgot about the whole 1900 thing with ALG, I don't know what I was thinking. Over the years I have spoken with many of the guys here that were on the street when that happened. Put this one on a brain fart.

Thanks