What am I striking for?

[~~~^~~~]

Good luck you guys, I hope that the communication channels between the pilot group and the MEC are up and running!

Based on several pages of posts it is clearly evident that this is not the case. I haven't talked with anyone that has a clear view of what really is going on. This whole process is simply amazing to me. Good luck to all. we are going to need it.

You are correct - Pilot to Pilot is great for rebel rousing but it not so good as a conduit for objective information. Every P2P Rep wraps the facts in their own agenda (as do I) and if you have 10 P2P folks you will have 10 different messages.

The point of P2P is to communicate without writing anything down. If our positions were written someone like me would point out that management offers went from:

• Comair +1%
• Comair
• Contract Extention at current rates in exchange for growth (we could could have negotiated scope like Comair's in the process FWIW)
• Current book, minus Section 1, plus Section 13, less 8 to 18% pay on the CRJ700 with absolutely no objective growth guarantees

Our MEC and CNC are in a tremendously tough position, as is the Company. ASA is making a mint right now, but Boyd and everyone else seem to think those days are coming to an end as the Delta agreement gets modified. The Company wants to position us to beat up Skywest in negotiations and undercut Chautauqua/Freedom/MidAtlantic/Republic and at least hold our own against Mesa. Pilot expectations are all out of whack with reality, but with what Skywest is making right now, who can blame them?

Also, ASA has a fairly diverse seniority list. Senior members of the CNC identify with the needs of a 57 year old pilot who would like his last 3 years to be his best (at any cost), while the junior members understand the need for growth and job protections over the long term.

P2P and rebel rousing will get a strike vote. However, it will take solid, objective, reasoning to give pilots the determination to see a strike through. At ASA we do not have a contract without a scope section which binds Skywest - so we have the moral imperative to strike, but that message is not completely understood and has not been communicated effectively.

We need to begin thinking about who we want for a Captain's Rep to replace Newie following his promotion. Hopefully we can get someone of his caliber, because he really has done an excellent job.

 

[ohplease!]

EMBtoCRJ,

Are you for real?

Lets see 12 posts?

What mgmt BOZO is this?

701EV

O.K. then,,, I have more than 12 posts. I agree with everything EMBtoCRJ posted (as do MANY MANY MANY ASA pilots I personally know) and I assure you I am not in management.

I tried the management route for more than 10 years before coming to ASA to fly. I worked 6 days a week, took work home nearly every day, fielded phone calls on days off and on vacation, worked "overtime" for "comp-time" that I could almost never use rather than extra pay, watched some guys/gals get promoted because they were willing to "stab anyone in the back" they could/had to, watched others get met by securtiy at the front door of the office building one morning without any notice and be escorted to their office to get their personal belongings and then escorted to the curb and left without even a ride home.

You will go NOWHERE and have as much time off, pay (even with the companies proposed paycut, which is NOT 10% like some of you are trying to say, at this point its 2.6-2.7ish twice for a grand total of less than 6%..forget about the FO rate because you're not going to be in the right seat long enough for it to matter if we continue to grow and get new planes. The majors WILL get to a point and begin hiring again and those who want to move on will be able to and will open more capt. slots), or a stress free lifestyle as you will get here or at most regional.

You and I are ASSETS ANYWHERE we work. ANYWHERE. You are expendable! Don't want to be just a number/asset? start your own business and move on. Until then, ride the waves this industry WILL have. sometimes the waves are coming in, sometimes their going out and sometimes the waves are huge. Don't like to surf? go do something else.

Huge improvements have been won in several QOL contract sections. Its time for ALPA to "get real" about the hourly rate and stop being nearsighted. Trade off some of their/our unreasonable requests (payrates) for some rigs, and get this sillyness over with so we can move on.

I'm sure you will all agree that due to the seniority system in aviation, every new hire class you let go before you, the more QOL you will lose. Same goes for new/bigger planes. The more that don't come our way, fewer upgrades, fewer lines, etc...

"gimmie SKYW's deal" and take ALPA away, I'll sign it right now!

As far as a strike vote. NO!

 

[Dave Benjamin]

The 5 year plan for ASA is for there to be no ASA. Jerry Atkin has stripped and shut down every company he has bought. (My FSDO sources tell me it is more like a 2 1/2 year plan). Some ASA pilots would like a place flying their airplanes, even at Skywest. Scope defines how that gets accomplished.

While I agree wholly agree with ASA pilot's need for scope I'm curious about these companies that Jerry Atkin purchased and "stripped." I'm familiar to some extent with the SunAire acquisition. Those pilots were integrated with the SkyWest pilots and their old Metro's are now hauling boxes, sitting in boneyards, or have been recycled into beer and soda cans.
The only other company I know of Jerry buying was Scenic. Scenic was subsequently sold and is still in operation. I know several capatains at SkyWest that got hired during the time Scenic was owned by SkyWest. Maybe there was some sort of preferential hiring in place. I think they got to keep their longevity from when they were hired at Scenic for vacation accrual and other non seniority related issues.

Jerry Atkin must have bought and "stripped" some other companies that I'm not aware of. Perhaps you can elaborate on the details and fill me in. I'm curious to learn more.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I love how flightinfo brings all of the naysayers our of the woodwork. To read this forum, you would think all but of a handful of pilots are against our "runaway MEC". No wonder management is so empowered to cut our pay, speak ill about our union, and most importantly, in no hurry to settle the contract!

Unfortunately, this forum has no basis in fact.

Due to its anonymous nature, the naysayers my not even work at ASA. They may not be pilots. We have no way to know.

So just let the naysayers of flightinfo nay. The vast majority of pilots (90%+ according to the MEC polling) support the MEC and its negotiating goals. Those sounding off here do it out of cowardice and desperation because they would get told off in the crew lounge if they spoke out. Let management think they have the pilots support, since they read this forum. The joke will be on them.

 

[ASADriver]

Yep, we did. And now they want to cut that amount by a minimum of 10% for EVERY PILOT HERE. More for some. Sorry, that is not acceptable to me. Actually I'm not sorry. It's not acceptable. I love flying, and I actually like doing it for ASA. I don't, however, like doing it for a management "team" that is so far removed from reality that they actually think they are the reason behind the companies success.

This is why some of us don't trust ALPA. The current proposal DOES NOT GIVE ME A MINIMUM 10% PAYCUT. That is a LIE! The union's option may give me a 100% paycut. Quit lying ALPA!

 

[ASADriver]

Good luck you guys, I hope that the communication channels between the pilot group and the MEC are up and running!

Based on several pages of posts it is clearly evident that this is not the case. I haven't talked with anyone that has a clear view of what really is going on. This whole process is simply amazing to me. Good luck to all. we are going to need it.

It seems like a total Charlie Foxtrot to me.

 

[EMB to CRJ]

I love how flightinfo brings all of the naysayers our of the woodwork. To read this forum, you would think all but of a handful of pilots are against our "runaway MEC". No wonder management is so empowered to cut our pay, speak ill about our union, and most importantly, in no hurry to settle the contract!

Unfortunately, this forum has no basis in fact.

Due to its anonymous nature, the naysayers my not even work at ASA. They may not be pilots. We have no way to know.

So just let the naysayers of flightinfo nay. The vast majority of pilots (90%+ according to the MEC polling) support the MEC and its negotiating goals. Those sounding off here do it out of cowardice and desperation because they would get the smackdown in the crew lounge if they spoke out. Let management think they have the pilots support, since they read this forum. The joke will be on them.

Lots of people in the airport say pro union stuff because that is the thing to do. Look how people jump all over you when you try to bring up a point that does not go with the union agenda on the boards. What do you think would happen if you said it at the airport would people listen or just shut you down?.

As for the Wilson polling I have done that survey 3 times and it is the same one. All the questions are designed to get you to say you want a strike. They ask which of the following goals will you strike for and then list several items from the original contract goals vs. are there any items you will strike for. It does not ask you if based on the current items that have been TA'ed and ASA's final offer for the open sections being xyz do you want to strike".

The poll may show 90% support of the MEC goals but when was that poll taken, things are changing all the time. What are the MEC's goals? I don't think the MEC released a document listing all the improvements that they have so far and listing the details of what the company is offering for the open sections. How can you vote to strike with out that information?

 

[John Pennekamp]

Lots of people in the airport say pro union stuff because that is the thing to do. Look how people jump all over you when you try to bring up a point that does not go with the union agenda on the boards. What do you think would happen if you said it at the airport would people listen or just shut you down?.

As for the Wilson polling I have done that survey 3 times and it is the same one. All the questions are designed to get you to say you want a strike. They ask which of the following goals will you strike for and then list several items from the original contract goals vs. are there any items you will strike for. It does not ask you if based on the current items that have been TA'ed and ASA's final offer for the open sections being xyz do you want to strike".

The poll may show 90% support of the MEC goals but when was that poll taken, things are changing all the time. What are the MEC's goals? I don't think the MEC released a document listing all the improvements that they have so far and listing the details of what the company is offering for the open sections. How can you vote to strike with out that information?

Or maybe everyone just jumps on you because they disagree with you? Yeah it's an ALPA conspiracy!

 

[ASADriver]

Or maybe everyone just jumps on you because they disagree with you? Yeah it's an ALPA conspiracy!

John, instead of attacking everyone, why don't you put the GD proposals out ON PAPER so that we can make informed decisions. This communication with P2P isn't cutting it.

 

[EMB to CRJ]

Yep, we did. And now they want to cut that amount by a minimum of 10% for EVERY PILOT HERE. More for some. Sorry, that is not acceptable to me. Actually I'm not sorry. It's not acceptable. I love flying, and I actually like doing it for ASA. I don't, however, like doing it for a management "team" that is so far removed from reality that they actually think they are the reason behind the companies success.

Where did you see this 10% pay cut for every one. The last email I got from the untion showed the company wanted no change for most people and a cut on the 700 and a small 2% or so raise for the 200 left seat.

 

[John Pennekamp]

John, instead of attacking everyone, why don't you put the GD proposals out ON PAPER so that we can make informed decisions. This communication with P2P isn't cutting it.

If debate is attacking you, then I guess the attacks would end if I agreed with you? Maybe because I'm not on the MEC? Maybe YOU should take some responsibility and go see your rep?

 

[14RF SUX]

John, instead of attacking everyone, why don't you put the GD proposals out ON PAPER so that we can make informed decisions. This communication with P2P isn't cutting it.

I've asked this before, but how do you ID a P2P member? Do they have a secret lapel pin or something?

I agree, it's not a seemingly effective communication channel, with different interpretations and no consistency, let alone the fact I can't ID them.

I'm still voting yes though, but pay me well and watch me go the extra mile.

14 RF SUX

 

[ASADriver]

I've asked this before, but how do you ID a P2P member? Do they have a secret lapel pin or something?

I agree, it's not a seemingly effective communication channel, with different interpretations and no consistency, let alone the fact I can't ID them.

I'm still voting yes though, but pay me well and watch me go the extra mile.

14 RF SUX

They have a red ALPA pin. I agree with you that it isn't the best way to communicate.

 

[ASADriver]

If debate is attacking you, then I guess the attacks would end if I agreed with you? Maybe because I'm not on the MEC? Maybe YOU should take some responsibility and go see your rep?

You've done more attacking than answering of questions and debating issues. That won't get us anywhere. We need to see the current offer in PRINT so that we can make an informed decision.

 

[atrdriver]

Where did you see this 10% pay cut for every one. The last email I got from the untion showed the company wanted no change for most people and a cut on the 700 and a small 2% or so raise for the 200 left seat.

That is just the payrate. They also propose to eliminate premium pay. That, for most pilots here, is about 10% or more of their total pay. Look at your last paycheck and see what "Underblock" YTD is vs your total pay. You need to get educated on what the company is proposing before you decide that it is a great deal.