What am I striking for?

[atrdriver]

This is why some of us don't trust ALPA. The current proposal DOES NOT GIVE ME A MINIMUM 10% PAYCUT. That is a LIE! The union's option may give me a 100% paycut. Quit lying ALPA!

You go look at your last paycheck and see what percentage of YTD Underblock is vs your total pay. I bet it is somewhere around 10%, unless you are one of those guys that can somehow make a CSG leg into 3 hours. For most of the pilot group, loss of premium, WHICH IS IN THE COMPANIES PROPOSAL, would result in about a 10% paycut. Then, add in only getting 50% of any deadheading that you do. You really need to educate yourself on what the companies proposal is before you open your mouth. Now quit calling me a liar idiot.

 

[John Pennekamp]

You've done more attacking than answering of questions and debating issues. That won't get us anywhere. We need to see the current offer in PRINT so that we can make an informed decision.

Ok, so telling you you're wrong is attacking? What information would you like to hear? Is there anything that will make YOU stop ATTACKING the union and your fellow pilots?

Pot calling the kettle black?

As for the current offer in print, I don't think either side has released it. Go ask management or our MEC.

I choose to believe what the union I pay to represent me is saying. I choose to disbelieve what management, representing their own interests says. To each his own!

 

[ASADriver]

You go look at your last paycheck and see what percentage of YTD Underblock is vs your total pay. I bet it is somewhere around 10%, unless you are one of those guys that can somehow make a CSG leg into 3 hours. For most of the pilot group, loss of premium, WHICH IS IN THE COMPANIES PROPOSAL, would result in about a 10% paycut. Then, add in only getting 50% of any deadheading that you do. You really need to educate yourself on what the companies proposal is before you open your mouth. Now quit calling me a liar idiot.

That isn't accurate atr, most of the underblock pay would be replaced by managements proposal of block or better. In other words if you came in early you would get credit up to block. For most of us it would be the same. People under guarantee (reserve, naps) would be the only ones who lose money.

The DH pay is current book 100%. Go look at MyContract - you have to look at the Feb. package proposal, but it accepts 100%DH, raises sick time accrue, and raises per diem.

The total package would be a payraise for me as a line holder on the 50.

This information should be in all of our hands before we vote. Is that too much to ask?

 

[ASADriver]

Ok, so telling you you're wrong is attacking? What information would you like to hear? Is there anything that will make YOU stop ATTACKING the union and your fellow pilots?

Pot calling the kettle black?

As for the current offer in print, I don't think either side has released it. Go ask management or our MEC.

I choose to believe what the union I pay to represent me is saying. I choose to disbelieve what management, representing their own interests says. To each his own!

I believe information when I actually see it. I went to the companies contract side and found that the 50% DH pay that P2P are saying is not true. The Feb. package proposal raised that to 100%.

I'm not attacking, I am simply asking for ALPA to give me accurate information. I am not paying ALPA to not tell me the truth or to withold information.

As I see it, as currently proposed, I would get a small raise on the 50 and would have a better QOL with the scheduling improvements that have already been TAd.

 

[John Pennekamp]

People under guarantee (reserve, naps) would be the only ones who lose money.

Has the thought occured to you that management would proceed to keep EVERYONE at or below guarantee if we agreed to that?

 

[John Pennekamp]

I believe information when I actually see it. I went to the companies contract side and found that the 50% DH pay that P2P are saying is not true. The Feb. package proposal raised that to 100%.

I'm not attacking, I am simply asking for ALPA to give me accurate information. I am not paying ALPA to not tell me the truth or to withold information.

As I see it, as currently proposed, I would get a small raise on the 50 and would have a better QOL with the scheduling improvements that have already been TAd.

Sounds to me like you're well versed on the COMPANY side of the story since you keep quoting MANAGEMENT SPONSORED sources. Have you made the effort to get the union's side? Have you discussed it withyour rep, MEC chairman, or CNC chairman? Email them if you want the scoop... they're very accessible. Make the effort.

There are two sides to every story, and the truth is somewhere in between. You history at flightinfo has shown a very strong management bias. Get both sides of the story before YOU decide what the truth is.

 

[ASADriver]

Has the thought occured to you that management would proceed to keep EVERYONE at or below guarantee if we agreed to that?

That's absurd! Why would they want to build lines to only 75 hours? That would require more pilots and would raise their costs. They will want to get as much out of us as they can. With a min. day which is probably doable, a 75 hour line will mean more time off which is fine with me also - their choice.

 

[John Pennekamp]

That's absurd! Why would they want to build lines to only 75 hours? That would require more pilots and would raise their costs. They will want to get as much out of us as they can. With a min. day which is probably doable, a 75 hour line will mean more time off which is fine with me also - their choice.

Yeah more new pilots at $19 per hour, and less high paid senior FOs like yourself making over block. It makes perfect sense.

 

[ASADriver]

Sounds to me like you're well versed on the COMPANY side of the story since you keep quoting MANAGEMENT SPONSORED sources. Have you made the effort to get the union's side? Have you discussed it withyour rep, MEC chairman, or CNC chairman? Email them if you want the scoop... they're very accessible. Make the effort.

There are two sides to every story, and the truth is somewhere in between. You history at flightinfo has shown a very strong management bias. Get both sides of the story before YOU decide what the truth is.

I have gotten both sides and they don't agree. The management side is in print on the mycontract. You can see the ACTUAL agreements. It says in black and white that the company accepts 100% DH. It says the underblock is replaced by block or better. It shows increased per diem, it shows increased sick accrual. It shows scheduling improvements that will help me today if we can just wrap this up. If ALPA feels that the information is inaccurate, then show us in writing where it is inaccurate. Don't tell me to go find a P2P rep. because I have already done that and they have told me that the company is proposing 50% which isn't correct.

 

[atrdriver]

That isn't accurate atr, most of the underblock pay would be replaced by managements proposal of block or better. In other words if you came in early you would get credit up to block. For most of us it would be the same. People under guarantee (reserve, naps) would be the only ones who lose money.

The DH pay is current book 100%. Go look at MyContract - you have to look at the Feb. package proposal, but it accepts 100%DH, raises sick time accrue, and raises per diem.

The total package would be a payraise for me as a line holder on the 50.

This information should be in all of our hands before we vote. Is that too much to ask?

You are incorrect. Managements proposal of block or better would only allow a line to be paid what it is blocked. Our current book premium is paid on a leg by leg basis and is paid on top of guarantee. I can do the math for you or you can do it yourself, but our current book is better than what the company is proposing. And currently the company is at 50% DH pay. I don't care what asacontract.com says, I care what the company negotiators have put on the table. Again, you need to do your research. I have, it is obvious that you have not.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I have gotten both sides and they don't agree. The management side is in print on the mycontract. You can see the ACTUAL agreements. It says in black and white that the company accepts 100% DH. It says the underblock is replaced by block or better. It shows increased per diem, it shows increased sick accrual. It shows scheduling improvements that will help me today if we can just wrap this up. If ALPA feels that the information is inaccurate, then show us in writing where it is inaccurate. Don't tell me to go find a P2P rep. because I have already done that and they have told me that the company is proposing 50% which isn't correct.

Could management possibly have published a proposal that makes them look good. One that's about two months old?

As I said, the truth is somewhere in between. Believe what you want and vote your conscience. Good luck getting a strike vote to fail.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

ASADriver is management or a management pilot. Period. If he wasn't he would be spouting his bullsh1t on the ASA MEC WebBoards too.

If was this passionate in his belief that he was being mislead by the association, he would voice his concerns to rep. He doesn't and therefore he is an anonymous troll trying to spread fear and dissention.

Sorry management boob. We're not buying it. You are trolling.

 

[atrdriver]

Don't tell me to go find a P2P rep. because I have already done that and they have told me that the company is proposing 50% which isn't correct.

Yes it is correct. Do you think that maybe management has not updated that web site? It IS run by them you know. I know what is on the table because I have talked to the people that are sitting at the table. Have you?

 

[John Pennekamp]

Yes it is correct. Do you think that maybe management has not updated that web site? It IS run by them you know. I know what is on the table because I have talked to the people that are sitting at the table. Have you?

Exactly. At least someone "gets it".

 

[601Pilot]

The union is going to mail out the strike vote to ASA pilots but what will we be striking for? Is it for the 200 70 seat pilots that will be left next year if we don't get replacements for the 700's that are going to skywest. Is it for the less that $4 an hour raise for a FO and loosing 11 or more airplanes so you will never upgrade to $60 and hour and get you time to move on.

From looking at these web boards and talking to people I know there are two camps those that say strike and get the pay raise or shut down ASA and those that see that you can not be out of line with the rest of the industry. With the improvements that have already been TA(scheduling is the big one, commuter get out of jail free card) and the better lines were are seeing things at ASA are not really that bad.

Every single one of you knew what ASA was paid before you walked in the door. We all hoped to me making 100K+ in the 5th year of flying at some main line but that did not happen. Even with Delta's 50%+ pay cut it is the only way you will get to six figures. There no way ALPA can get that for you on a RJ(unless you stay 18 years). You have to get you time and move on. As long as some airline will fly for a lower rate there is no way to hold on to a rate that is out of line with every one else.

Now that Skywest owns us there is nothing stopping them from easily just taking all of our 700's away. Then what good is the rate that we went on strike for? People will be on the street and every one that is still at ASA will move backwards. I don't understand how people can say they don't care if we grow or loose airplanes or shut down they must all be in the top 10% or 15% in the left seat that may still hold on to a good line if the 700 go or have some other skill that they can walk in the door and get 60k to 70k a year to work 12 days a month.

While I don't understand that is how ever there view. Does ALPA and the MEC/CNC have your view? If you vote yes for a strike you are letting them put you on strike with out any future input from you for what is best for the union, and that may or may not be what is best for you. I don't ask that you agree with me but I do ask that you really think about what you would be striking for and who it would benefit when doing that strike ballot.

There is nothing ALPA can do to stop the "race to the bottom" unless there was one union for all regional airlines or every pilot group was doing there contract at the exact time. It is far to easy to get some one else to do the flying. If we go on strike to prove a point and become the highest paid will all loose in the end. Skywest will simply take all out airplanes away and ASA will slowly be gone. All the time that we have put it will be gone.

There are hundreds of reason why SKY inc would want the 700 and 900 planes flown by the lower paid pilots who fly both the 200 and 700. Can any of you or ALPA give one reason why they would have ASA pilots fly the airplanes for a rate that is currently higher or one that is 11% percent beyond that?

People say SKY inc will do what they want with there airplanes no matter what the pilots do. If we were paid the same or for the sake of argument less, had the same cost structure as SKY airlines why would they move the airplanes to SKY airlines? Again just think before you vote and if you would be happy or can live with what we currently have and the improvements that have been TA'ed, get some more airplanes so you can upgrade or get a better schedule then email the union and let them know.

Charlie??? I got your first letter, you don't have to spew another one here.